Because if Tessa's leg was the problem, the sympathy would be entirely with her, considering her surgeries. If it was Scott's hand and he aborted the lift because of it, there might be more outrage over their being able to start from the lift.
2013 4cc Free Dance
- Thread starter figuristka
- Start date
Because if Tessa's leg was the problem, the sympathy would be entirely with her, considering her surgeries. If it was Scott's hand and he aborted the lift because of it, there might be more outrage over their being able to start from the lift.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
That didn't bother me. I hate how they always shove a camera in the skater's face, especially in this case when something was clearly wrong.
I can't agree more. The handling of the whole situation surely can be improved. An announcement, some explanation on the spot, to the paying crowd, instead of leaving everyone, including the commentators, to wonder what happened. The sport surely can use a better image, and this isn't exactly the best moment to cry for privacy.
b//c that lift is a MAJOR point getter. It's a combo lift, so with the level and GOEs added in, it gets them at least 10pts (it got them 10.43 at this comp, which is a HUGE chunk of the TES score) and of course even though PCS should be judged separately from TES, when teams are strong/flashy/unique in the elements, judges do reward them in the PCS too...
of couse one could make the argument that they could have possibly skipped the straight-line part of the lift (the more dangerous of the two as Tessa is inverted, and requires more preparation and balance) and gone into the rotational lift (or at least some version of one to get points and not stop the program entirely). After watching the video again, I think that both of them probably considered continuing during the period that they were gliding for the duration of the lift and waiting for the music. However, since Tessa's feet never left the ice, they must have also realized they was the possibility of actually earning the points. After looking at scores, it should be noted that even without the 10+ pts from the lift, they would have STILL finished in 2nd...
Regardless, this makes worlds very interesting as the competition will be in Tessa's hometown. I think both teams have solid programs, but D/W have been having better results, both in consistency and performance, and look a lot more comfortable with their programs at competitions (i absolutely love their Giselle as I think it captures the spirit and style perfectly). V/M have looked like a work-in-progress all season (even last season), and while constant improvement is important, there comes a point, when the program has be natural so they don't need to worry about what's next...i almost worry that because V/M have focused so much on the last two seasons on being different -- and making changes constantly -- that they haven't ever really gotten comfortable with what they have worked on. Preparation for worlds is going to be really important for them -- i'd imagine there's going to be lots of media, addressing injury/physical issues if there are any, and getting comfortable enough with their programs that they can work on execution rather than making adjustments, and pretty much completely ignore D/W during training. D/W's preparation and consistency until this point is pretty remarkable; they look like they could fast-forward the next 6 weeks and compete and get gold at worlds. V/M are not the best at being the "hunters"/underdogs/coming from behind so what/how they deal with training for worlds will be important if they want to keep the title.
in regards to scott's reaction to the camera/mic...i think it's a legit request (granted, he could have handled it better) but it would also help if there could be rules about what's allowed and not from the cameraman in these situations...
What I hope happens is that the rules about interruptions in programs are re-visited, and that new time limits and rules are made. Such as, how much time is allowed for an equipment issue, a costume issue, a injury, or other disturbance (i.e. something gets thrown on the ice). As well as, in what situation is the skater allowed to leave the ice and return or does the skater/team have to remain on the ice. And in the case of injury/something medical is a consult required? just food for thought.
What I hope happens is that the rules about interruptions in programs are re-visited, and that new time limits and rules are made. Such as, how much time is allowed for an equipment issue, a costume issue, a injury, or other disturbance (i.e. something gets thrown on the ice). As well as, in what situation is the skater allowed to leave the ice and return or does the skater/team have to remain on the ice. And in the case of injury/something medical is a consult required? just food for thought.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
I agree that Moir's request was legit.
To clarify how he handled that part of the situation, I will add:
What I'm pretty sure Moir was saying at that point was: "Mike, Mike ..." -- to get the attention of Mike Slipchuk, high performance director of Skate Canada, who was standing very close to Zoueva.
In other words, I do not think Moir was saying, "Mic, mic ... " -- as if to directly address the cameraman with the microphone.
And Moir's waving of his hand also was his quick nonverbal way of asking Slipchuk to respond to the cameraman's approach, IMHO.
In the wide shot of the scene that immediately followed, Slipchuk can be seen guiding the cameraman to step back.
In other words, I do not think Moir was saying, "Mic, mic ... " -- as if to directly address the cameraman with the microphone.
And Moir's waving of his hand also was his quick nonverbal way of asking Slipchuk to respond to the cameraman's approach, IMHO.
In the wide shot of the scene that immediately followed, Slipchuk can be seen guiding the cameraman to step back.
The only small point I'm trying to make is that from what I heard and saw on the video, Moir was not uncivil to the cameraman.
(I recognize that whether keeping the cameraman at a distance is justified is a separate question.)
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Charlie and Yuzuru's medical condition is well noted as well as Tessa's leg condition. Maybe next time they could stop and take some oxygen before going into the last lift, or the 3rd quad (maybe Yuzu could do the 3rd quad this way). After all, sometimes the guys can barely stand up after a program. My point is, without the evidence of a medical examination, or anything, who is to say what situation deserves a break, unless it's a pair skater smashed her head on the ice.
Don't get me wrong, I love V/M's skating, but just hate for them to leave the door open for people's second guessing, or defending.
Don't get me wrong, I love V/M's skating, but just hate for them to leave the door open for people's second guessing, or defending.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2011
OXYGENMaybe their federation should fine them like Rachael Flatt for having a documented injury that prevents them from competing their best. But no, then they would get "poor ol' Tessa, and gentlemanly Scott protecting her" sympathy points at World's. Completely absolved of any responsibility. Maybe the ISU will create the Virtue-Moir Rule, preventing any rest without a doctor's note.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
Interesting discussion here. Haven't posted in a long time but just want to add my suggestions for handling 'interruptions': Bring back the automatic deduction (as others have mentioned). Across all disciplines and all skaters, doesn't matter if D/W or V/M or X, Y, Z is involved. Apply a deduction to any stoppage whether due to a fall or equipment malfunction, onslaught of cramps, shortness of breath, nausea, etc. There should be a maximum amount of 'break' time. If skater/s go over that time limit, they either default or receive additional deductions and warning for delaying 'the game'. Harsh? Maybe. We're talking about 4-minute long programs here. If you go over the 4 min mark, judges/referees are quick to give a deduction. If your lift goes over 6 seconds (?), automatic deduction.
If the skaters resume, there should be a new upper limit to scores. They should not be allowed to receive maximum points in the elements. It is really unfair for those who push through the pain and agony (of whatever it is they are suffering) to finish their 4 minute program--a completed program. In other winter sports, the time you get from point A to point B covers any stoppage or interruption--the clock just keeps going until you cross the finish line or you withdraw (oh, any missed gates or targets incur further deductions or additional time penalty).
If the skaters resume, there should be a new upper limit to scores. They should not be allowed to receive maximum points in the elements. It is really unfair for those who push through the pain and agony (of whatever it is they are suffering) to finish their 4 minute program--a completed program. In other winter sports, the time you get from point A to point B covers any stoppage or interruption--the clock just keeps going until you cross the finish line or you withdraw (oh, any missed gates or targets incur further deductions or additional time penalty).
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
http://www.freep.com/article/20130211/SPORTS18/302110096
The Detroit Free Press has an article on 4cc's that includes a nice photo of Meryl & Charlie.
http://www.freep.com/article/20130211/SPORTS18/302110096
The Detroit Free Press has an article on 4cc's that includes a nice photo of Meryl & Charlie.
http://www.freep.com/article/20130211/SPORTS18/302110096
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2012
Those who are skeptical about the authenticity of Tessa Virtue's leg cramps are absolutely right. Few people are aware of this, but Virtue and Moir are part of the, "Evil Kanadian Konspiracy," which I believe has been mentioned on Golden Skate before.
Even though they skated quite well in the SD, they were so afraid of losing to Davis and White that they fabricated this pathetic incident in order to give themselves an excuse for losing. I'm surprised they didn't do this at last years 4CC's as that is the sort of thing that, "Evil Kanadian Konspirators do!!"
Virtue and Moir do not have a chance of winning this season's Worlds in spite of the Canadian venue. For one thing there is no Canadian judge on the panel and what happened here at 4CC's will hurt thier reputation. Another consideration is since last season they have not been given credit for thier beautiful lines. By lines I mean leg lines (which include leg extenstions, turn out and toe point) general body lines, and positions in the lifts. Thier expertise in this area used to result in high component marks and helped win them thier medals.
The realization of this unpleasant change probably caused Scott Moir's outburst at the Grand Prix last year. They would have been aware that no other dancers had surpassed them in this aspect of skating (particularely leg lines) so I can understand them being upset, but that is no excuse for the gamesmanship displayed here at 4CC's. The criteria for dance is obviously not the same and most judges no longer prize the qualities that once were so important. Virtue and Moir should just suck it up.
However, I'm concerned that this situation may drive them to desperation, especially as Worlds is in thier home town. They might try to persuade thier fellow, "Evil Kanadian Konspirators," to put something in the judges drinks as they certainly won't get really good marks otherwise. This may sound excessive, but remember there is almost nothing, "Evil Kanadian Konspirators won't do!!"
Even though they skated quite well in the SD, they were so afraid of losing to Davis and White that they fabricated this pathetic incident in order to give themselves an excuse for losing. I'm surprised they didn't do this at last years 4CC's as that is the sort of thing that, "Evil Kanadian Konspirators do!!"
Virtue and Moir do not have a chance of winning this season's Worlds in spite of the Canadian venue. For one thing there is no Canadian judge on the panel and what happened here at 4CC's will hurt thier reputation. Another consideration is since last season they have not been given credit for thier beautiful lines. By lines I mean leg lines (which include leg extenstions, turn out and toe point) general body lines, and positions in the lifts. Thier expertise in this area used to result in high component marks and helped win them thier medals.
The realization of this unpleasant change probably caused Scott Moir's outburst at the Grand Prix last year. They would have been aware that no other dancers had surpassed them in this aspect of skating (particularely leg lines) so I can understand them being upset, but that is no excuse for the gamesmanship displayed here at 4CC's. The criteria for dance is obviously not the same and most judges no longer prize the qualities that once were so important. Virtue and Moir should just suck it up.
However, I'm concerned that this situation may drive them to desperation, especially as Worlds is in thier home town. They might try to persuade thier fellow, "Evil Kanadian Konspirators," to put something in the judges drinks as they certainly won't get really good marks otherwise. This may sound excessive, but remember there is almost nothing, "Evil Kanadian Konspirators won't do!!"
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
^^^^^^
This is an international forum. Many people have English as a 2nd or 3rd language. I can tell you that humor and irony, particularly when not indicated with the :sarcasm: emoticon or the
emoticon have a likelihood of being taken at face value by quite a few posters.
So if you don't want people to think you really believe that stuff, you need to say, "This is a Joke."
This is an international forum. Many people have English as a 2nd or 3rd language. I can tell you that humor and irony, particularly when not indicated with the :sarcasm: emoticon or the
emoticon have a likelihood of being taken at face value by quite a few posters.So if you don't want people to think you really believe that stuff, you need to say, "This is a Joke."
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Well, a big photo, anyway. My girl Meryl
looks like she is about to be carted off to the insane asylum. By the way, the Free Press has a new figure skating columnist now, since the departure of Jo-Ann Barnas. Jeff Seidel is a general sports colunist who covers all local sports, but he got up to speed in figure skating pretty fast.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
What happened to Jo-Ann Barnas?
Isn't Esmeralda burned to death as a witch in Notre Dame du Paris? Meryl is supposed to look like that
Isn't Esmeralda burned to death as a witch in Notre Dame du Paris? Meryl is supposed to look like that
What happened to Jo-Ann Barnas?
Isn't Esmeralda burned to death as a witch in Notre Dame du Paris? Meryl is supposed to look like that
Jo-Ann Barnas had to leave Freep because her husband got a new job in Indianapolis.
Well, it made it look like he was trying to hide something. If he was telling his coaches, tessa had a leg cramp why would he mind that being heard. Strange too that he did all the talking. Gave the appearance he was the one having trouble, not her.
I did a quick timing of the length of the delay and it seems to me it exceeded that allowed. I guess I must be wrong about this, but for them to get a 9.25
on PE leaves me
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- Joined
- Mar 16, 2005
I wonder who came up with the leg excuse, Scott or their public relations team...... After D/W finished their program I instantly had a gut feeling V/M would pull out of the competition. I have never seen such a loud ovation for an ice dance performance than the one D/W received after their free dance. V/M saw that too.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
^^^^^^
Ovations for Torvill & Dean were like that. And Tessa and Scott have had some great standing ovations, too.
Ovations for Torvill & Dean were like that. And Tessa and Scott have had some great standing ovations, too.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
indeed. Davis and White put out an olympic-quality skate (with so many changes since Nats!). The chemistry and connection rivaled Virtue and Moir.