2013 Junior Worlds Ladies FS

[silverlake22]

I think it's not so much about the age, but judging objectively despite age. For example, Anna could have landed all her jumps cleanly and I bet people still would have complained and said she was gawky and ungainly. But is this really about her skating, or that she has a very thin and muscular body type and is currently all arms and legs? To me, her skating is not awkward, some things look awkward because she is clearly in the middle of her growing years and everything doesn't match up yet, but she's 14, that's to be expected, should she be penilized for that? In my mind that would be silly, this is a junior event, she is not old enough to compete in the senior worlds, neither are Julia or Elena. In terms of basics, I think Cesario and Pogorilaya are fairly comparable. I don't think there is an issue for judges rewarding a 14 year old skater for attempting ambitious content and attacking her programs even if the execution isn't perfectly clean - it's risk versus reward, Anna went for tough content and she landed it well enough that it paid off. Given this is a junior event, I think it is okay she beats a 19 year old who comes out and skates a polished program with more conservative content. The judges aren't holding down Samantha honestly, they let her win the SP with a 3lo-2t combo that was URed after all. People may not remember, but back in 2010 Samantha competed at US Nationals and got a partial standing ovation for a seemingly clean FS which went on to score 74 points because of URed jumps. The calls are not that surprising. And giving her 9 points more in PCS than Pogorilaya is not the right call either because Anna getting low 6s for PCS is quite on target and it would be wrong for the judges to knock those marks way down because she's young and at a awkward stage in her development and mid 6s are fine for Samantha. I think the fact that Sam won the SP and got the 2nd highest PCS in the FS speaks to the fact that the judges DO appreciate her mature and polished skating and are willing to reward that even at a Junior World championship, she lost a medal because of TES. That's all it comes down to.

 

[silverlake22]

Also I think a more reasonable age cutoff would be 16 or 17 for ladies and 18 or 19 for men, pairs, and dance. 19 does seem a bit old for ladies and 21 for the dance and pairs as well. For the guys it seems a bit more reasonable, because the absolute youngest you really see guys be competitive on the senior circuit is about 17, maybe 16 in very rare cases, and usually its not until like 19 or the early 20s, whereas for ladies, 14 and 15 year olds do very well at senior events all the time. Idk. It's a tough call.

 

[PFpatinage]

I found something strange when I was watching the protocol:
Radionova: 3F+Lo+3S (BV 9.50)
Chartrand: 3Lz+Lo+3S (BV 10.20)

As we know Half-loop is counted as a jump, but IIRC counted as 1Lo, not as Lo.
Does anyone know rule changes about it?
If not, their score must be corrected. What a shame.

 

[Skater Boy]

Interesting. I forgot about the 1/2 loop v. loop thing. and the rise of the loop and did the flip get reduced as well as the toe and salchow??? Oh so much to remember

 

[gioccia]

I haven't seen the skates yet but I support the idea that 19yearolds should not compete with 13yearolds on a Junior level. And I support the judges giving credit to juniors not the older skaters when they do. She could have won WSeniors like three times by that time if she was that talented...Why coming here? She's a woman and they are girls. Of course she CAN skate to music better or be sexier... she's a grown woman. And again, if judges start giving higher PCS to women and not girls in Juniors that what would be the point of sending girls to Junior competitions? Russa, USA, Japan, Finland have tons of 18-19 year olds who are not on the national team.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

How nations handle their own nationals is their business. Both Radionova and Leonova are too young for Seniors. Personally I think 19 as the cut of for Junior ladies is ridiculous. I don't think the age should be monolithic across the disciplines. 19 is not a Junior age for ladies, since 1984 only two Olympic Champions have been older than 19, and neither Witt nor Arakawa were competiting at Junior Worlds at 19. Witt in fact was winning the Olympics at 19 in 1984. Junior worlds and the Junior Grand Prix should be mainly for the younger skaters to get their feet wet into international competition. I'm fine with leaving maybe a two year gap and saying 17. But I think your passed high school you shouldn't be at Junior Worlds if you are a Single ladies skater.. A better Senior B system would be more appropriate.

Radionova isn't allowed to jump her way into Senior Championship competitions, how fair is it to let the more maturer competitors PCS their way into Junior competitions? Especially since Juniors is designated for the juniors. Its suppose to give young future stars of the sport the opportunity to compete with their peers. And yes the arguments for Cesario a lot of them are based on flaws the young Russians have that are natural issues with 13-14 year olds.

I do think 19 would be fairly appropriate for men because 19 is a fairly younger age in men's skating.

Denis Ten competed at junior worlds after competing at the Olympics. As did Elene Gedevanishivili.

I'm fine with it being 19, but a year reduction wouldn't bother me in the slightest. But your post strikes me as being a little hyperbolic and obfuscating.

 

[Mrs. P]

I haven't seen the skates yet but I support the idea that 19yearolds should not compete with 13yearolds on a Junior level. And I support the judges giving credit to juniors not the older skaters when they do. She could have won WSeniors like three times by that time if she was that talented...Why coming here? She's a woman and they are girls. Of course she CAN skate to music better or be sexier... she's a grown woman. And again, if judges start giving higher PCS to women and not girls in Juniors that what would be the point of sending girls to Junior competitions? Russa, USA, Japan, Finland have tons of 18-19 year olds who are not on the national team.

Again, Samantha has never competed at a Junior Worlds because of her injury. She did three seasons of the JGP, but she wasn't able to compete at Nationals the last two years because of those injuries and therefore did not qualify for Junior Worlds. It's not like she's trying to play the system.

She only competed in Senior Nationals once before in 2010, when she placed 14th. That year Agnes Z. (first in juniors), Kiri Baga (4th in juniors, Yasmin Siraj who was 2nd was two young and Kiri was chosen over Lindsey Davis due to her solid JGP season) and Christina Gao (5th in her first year of seniors). It's hard to say whether she would have ended up in Jr. Worlds (and hence moved up to Senior) sooner if not for her injuries. I think that would have been the case.

 

[Skater Boy]

Oh dear, such language. I am not sure what to make of "juniors". Is it a competition where you should get more marks for skating more mature so to speak? Skating skills are fair enough based on edges, speed , power etc and that favours the physically mature. But Performance wise and interpretation if the judges marked was it well interpreted or performed and not credit classical over say something fun thenit could be fair. Was it the best broadway music interpretation versus was it the best Four seasons or Carmen? Both could earn a 9 if they were done the best for their "style or genre'.

 

[gioccia]

Well, I've just watched the skates... what can I say...
1) Elena - stunning, who says she lacks elegance and choreo are just blind. Deserved lead.
2) Julia - good, but in this case I would say that she lacks something... elegance maybe.. she's too sharp... jumps, tricks but I dunno too much of that, she's not the package...TES yes but I'd aggue that was a great artistic performance... She seems too confident, arrogant and is losing her way. But lock for the 2nd place.
3) Anna - mistakes, didn't like her performance.
4) Sam - clean, nice... but come on guys, do you call that performance of the night???? She's wooden, she can't bend at all... that was just a bad copy of Ashley (though Ashley is wooden as well). Still I'd have her in the 3d place.
5) The Japanese girl - I didn't get all that praise... nothing special, in terms of PCS not even close to Elena... whereas jums seemed fine to me.

So it should have been Elena, Julia, Sam, but the judges have obviously sent the message that's It's JW, that moved Sam to the fourth... honestly she has NO chances to make the national team, moreover...not a slight chance in terms of international competition.

 

[Moment]

I found something strange when I was watching the protocol:
Radionova: 3F+Lo+3S (BV 9.50)
Chartrand: 3Lz+Lo+3S (BV 10.20)

As we know Half-loop is counted as a jump, but IIRC counted as 1Lo, not as Lo.
Does anyone know rule changes about it?
If not, their score must be corrected. What a shame.

I don't think there has been a rule change. I know some skaters received a credit for half loops at the Grand Prix.

 

[plushyfan]

The performance of the night was Rodionova's performance. She is stunning, and elegant and artistry!!!! Don't be biased my dear American friends!

 

[lavender]

I'm American and I don't have one favorite from in the U.S. anymore on the ladies side. Satoko was my fav regardless of the urs. All I saw were arms everywhere with the Russian girls but Rodionava is such a adorable girl. Hope she grows to be one of my favs.

 

[mskater93]

I found something strange when I was watching the protocol:
Radionova: 3F+Lo+3S (BV 9.50)
Chartrand: 3Lz+Lo+3S (BV 10.20)

As we know Half-loop is counted as a jump, but IIRC counted as 1Lo, not as Lo.
Does anyone know rule changes about it?
If not, their score must be corrected. What a shame.

It doesn't count if it's not done correctly and gets called a Lo not a 1Lo. Both skaters missed being fully backwards on the landing and so didn't get credit for the jump in terms of points but it does count against their limits of jumps...

 

[plushyfan]

Rodionava is such a adorable girl. Hope she grows to be one of my favs.

:thumbsup:

 

[sgower]

I found something strange when I was watching the protocol:
Radionova: 3F+Lo+3S (BV 9.50)
Chartrand: 3Lz+Lo+3S (BV 10.20)

As we know Half-loop is counted as a jump, but IIRC counted as 1Lo, not as Lo.
Does anyone know rule changes about it?
If not, their score must be corrected. What a shame.

3Lz +1Lo +3S = BV 10.20
3F +1Lo + 3S = BV 10.00

Somehow Radionova was not credited .5 for the loop jump? Maybe it was first called as a sequence and then corrected to a combo and the loop was missed?

ETA - actually, the .5 wasn't counted in Chartrand's score either....

3Lz +1Lo +3S = BV 10.70

 

[FSGMT]

3Lz +1Lo +3S = BV 10.20
3F +1Lo + 3S = BV 10.00

Somehow Radionova was not credited .5 for the loop jump? Maybe it was first called as a sequence and then corrected to a combo and the loop was missed?

ETA - actually, the .5 wasn't counted in Chartrand's score either....

3Lz +1Lo +3S = BV 10.70

Yes, I noticed it, too, and that's strange: I think it actually was a mistake from the technical panel... :think:

 

[Mrs. P]

Yes, I noticed it, too, and that's strange: I think it actually was a mistake from the technical panel... :think:

MSkater93 explained it earlier:

It doesn't count if it's not done correctly and gets called a Lo not a 1Lo. Both skaters missed being fully backwards on the landing and so didn't get credit for the jump in terms of points but it does count against their limits of jumps...

 

[FSGMT]

MSkater93 explained it earlier:

Oh, thank you, I had missed it!

 

[dorispulaski]

The ladies had a very picky tech panel.

 

[chuckm]

ITA Doris---I don't think any skater ever got the benefit of the doubt. I could see nitpicking at the Senior level, but with juniors, it's downright mean.