2013 Worlds Ladies FS

[babyalligator]

I found another one..
After free program, backstage clip... yuna and mao.
First yuna said, "Congratulations" and a handshake with mao.

http://youtu.be/z3VUKPT7EBk

i love seeing moments like these after all these two have gone through. my current FS dream is for asada and kim to skate together...
sigh...cue in peter o'toole singing the impossible dream...

 

[let`s talk]

Is this some kind of hit-and-run trolling? After having created so much bad blood with your post, you neither defend or explain your position, but sneak back later, when things quiet down, to the same thread with yellow smilies, still not addressing the verbiage that afforded you five minutes of negative fame.

I expressed my position in the original post. To reply on insults and flaming pics to my address that some Yuna fans posted here is not worthy bothering. As for "sneaking", just tell yourself that the world is bigger than France and occasionally bother to look at the poster's location that is written right under the username. I am in a different time zone and I post when I find it convenient for me. Not when I sleep and not when I work. i.e. the time when most of Europe/NA located posters take their activities here. Have no idea why I have to explain you that. The only one who is trolling here is you with lame bickering and stupid personal attack. Yawn.

 

[ehdtkqorl123]

Don't feed the troll..

 

[Riemann]

I'll take a Kim with poor music cuts and questionable facial expressions any day over someone like Kostner.

As for Mao, it's sad that she is no longer at her best, but I still love to see her compete and nothing can take away from the truly wonderful moments she's given us over the years.

 

[Figga]

I thought Caro skated beautifully. If she was clean, I'd arguably take her over YuNa and I'd definitely take her over Mao.

 

[hurrah]

I found another one..
After free program, backstage clip... yuna and mao.
First yuna said, "Congratulations" and a handshake with mao.

http://youtu.be/z3VUKPT7EBk

It was Mao that said 'Congratulation' to Yuna, as it should be, since Yuna won.

Doesn't mean they're necessarily friends. I don't think they can just be friends given the noise that surrounds them. But they are civil to each other.

 

[prettykeys]

Obviously we disagree about Kostner. I found her to be really sloppy and uncontrolled before at her worst.

Fine, you can say she is uncontrolled and sloppy at her worst, but perhaps you should be more careful in your wording when you say

She was never able to control her speed nor her movement.

It's not my fault that you can't articulate clearly.

Again, although COP was created in a way to sort of justify B/S's placement in SLC (which is a good thing) and reward elements in skating that were ignored under 6.0, you cannot deny that the vehement reaction to the pairs result jumpstarted the whole thing even if the end product would round up rewarding B/S much more than 6.0 did.

Let me reiterate. The vehement reaction was because B/S were not clean. If B/S WERE clean and went toe-to-toe with clean S/P, it is extremely unlikely that people would have had that reaction just because you and a handful of others might believe S/P "projected better."

Lots of skating fans still go nuts when a very talented skater with mistakes (especially falls) under the CoP places higher than skaters who go largely clean and perform well.

Just check out the first few postings of the Ladies LP thread. All he said was that he didn't think she was as convincing as she was in the SP, and people jumped all over his "paragraph" about Yu Na Kim. This has been the norm on here and the other dominate skating forum from extreme Kim fans any time there's any criticism.

I am not disagreeing with you that there are some oversensitive ubers. This does NOT mean that there aren't also overeager critics who use the same tired, cliched (by now) phrases such as "she leaves me cold", etc. and time again, it's her fault. Not only is she lacking, but our mind-reading powers reveal she doesn't even try.

Same thing with my post. You bring up the overeagerness and someone else says they're tired of the same posters "bashing" Kim over and over again. So...where is the line drawn? When are people honestly giving their opinion on Kim's skating and when are they just overeager to bash her when on-it's-face the criticisms are just a disagreement at worst.

The line is drawn, IMO, when the critics make assumptions about her attitude, motivations, and efforts. She's not trying, she's unprofessional and rude (???), she doesn't care or is uninvested in the figure skating, she's just there to punch in, be workmanlike, and leave right on time and cash in her cheque.

And then, on top of that, when there are fans who voice their disagreements, it's only because we are all die-hards/ubers and all of us have to be lumped into one group so that what a couple overzealous fans say in broken English is what the rest of us think/feel, naturally.

YuNa criticism --> zealous bots saying ridiculous things + YuNa-anti's/detractors saying ridiculous or cliched things --> license to insult all YuNa fans

Wash, rinse, repeat. Lots of people aren't involved in this process, but it's definitely there.

 

[hurrah]

I'm late to make this observation, but I thought some other poster would by now, but since no one has, I'd like to point out that Carolina Kostner's 3-3 was under-rotated, and she didn't get a call. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5suwKlI9ZB4&feature=player_detailpage. Sure the under-rotation is borderline, but Mao's flip which got an under-rotation call was more rotated than Carolina's toe loop, I think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uVi3Eue5ik&feature=player_detailpage. So between Carolina's toe loop and Mao's flip, if one of them was going to be called an under-rotation, shouldn't it have been Carolina's toe loop?

So really, shouldn't Carolina have won bronze and Mao silver? Not that I care all that much. But still....

 

[Mathman]

I enjoyed 2013 worlds championship SO MUCH!

Me, too! Welcome to the forum. Post often, post long! :yes:

I find all these discussions of facial expressions hilarious. I watch skating.. you know, what goes on beneath the waist? I don't watch skating to see masterpiece theater. I watch to see how composed the skater's upper body is, how deep the edges are, how the skater's position is in the air. Watch skating for the beauty of the lines created by the blades, the smoothness of the transition, the awesomeness of the difficult step sequences. The quickness of the turns, the swiftness of the ice coverage, these are the things that are truly awe inspiring to watch. Facial expression is the last thing that registers on my mind. Enjoy the true beauty of skating. If you are so focus on stuff like facial expressions, you are missing out on the true beauty of skating.

This.

 

[venlac]

It was Mao that said 'Congratulation' to Yuna, as it should be, since Yuna won.

Doesn't mean they're necessarily friends. I don't think they can just be friends given the noise that surrounds them. But they are civil to each other.

Can you speak Japanese?
It seems Yuna first came up, and request handshake to mao and she(YuNa) say "Congratulations."

 

[YunaBliss]

LOL. I don't think it matters who said what first.

We should just re-read the post Mathman just pointed to.

 

[hurrah]

Can you speak Japanese?
It seems Yuna first came up, and request handshake to mao and she(YuNa) say "Congratulations."

I can speak, read, write in Japanese. It was Mao that congratulated Yuna. Watch the clip carefully. You will see that Yuna came up to speak to the Japanese lady that Mao was talking to. She's a JSF representative. I do believe the JSF rep congratulated Yuna and shook her hand first, and then Mao congratulated Yuna and they shook hands. Yuna's face is shown in the camera, and you can see she is mouthing the word 'Thank you' (or maybe 'Good job.').

Why in the world would Yuna go up and congratulate Mao in the first place? Yuna beat her. It would almost be rude to do that.

Between debating on whether or not it was Yuna or Mao that uttered the word 'Congratulations' and debating on if there was a crucial tech call mistake that flipped the silver and bronze placements, I do believe the latter is the more important one.

 

[Mathman]

Actually, I have another question. The person who takes Mao's picture and says, "Say cheese." Is that Shizuka Arakawa ?

 

[hurrah]

Actually, I have another question. The person who takes Mao's picture and says, "Say cheese." Is that Shizuka Arakawa ?

Mathman, are you goofing off? Surely you recognize that's Kanako?

 

[Ambivalent]

I just wish Mao and Yuna weren't in the same era. It's just... I don't know, I just want to see Mao happy and skating to her full potential, and certainly in another time she may have already been an Olympic gold medallist. She might do it in Sochi but IMO Sato has only hurt her skating.

 

[CarneAsada]

LOL... oh yeah that was me! *2 hands 2 fingers victory sign*

I happen to be a huge fan of Pauline Kael's film critiques, so I tend to adapt her passionate but blunt honest style. I am still happily stand by my ridiculous 'essay' (thank you very much for remembering. It is flattering really for. I clearly have touched a nerve somewhere).

I actually remembered the essay mainly for its incoherence and poor mechanics, but suit yourself. It wasn't your worst effort though; that would likely be the time you called Franz Liszt a composer who only wrote showoff music, described his Piano Concerto No.1 as being "classical" in style, and said it was very "German" of him (how does one get this many things wrong in such a small space?).

However as much as I admire Mao, I still stand by my critique for her programs this year. They were junior and shallow. Mao's Swans clearly does not speak the music of Tchaikovsky, they were clearly the 'off the boat' variety. Exported from the land of bubbles and rainbows all still slightly dazed and confused even a few months later. Half a dozen performances later, the interpretation still unable to distinguish which colour is suppose to be from which music section, since they are neither reflected in the interpretation or the presentation. That program is choreographically half empty and the only saving grace is the step sequences. Put Liberstraume on it, is it any difference? I don't even know why people pretend to select the music or put on the costume anymore if that is all it takes. If you don't care enough about what you are suppose to be interpreting, being faithful to deliver the meaning in the music, intention of the composers then why should the audience do too? I'd say exactly the same if it is Yuna who did this program with the same type of contrived and inaccurate adaptation/interpretation.

I admit they are indeed scathing remarks, but do understand, my critique is not because I am a Yuna fan nor I am an anti (I am not - lets not get juvenile about this shall we?). Tat and Mao are 2 of superpowers of ballet on ice. It should be a match made in heaven, it should be 120% of my expectations, instead, I got 48% lukewarm version, where 30% alone are for the step sequences. I'd expect the program to be alot better, one of the best ever, a signature program i'd like to rewatch again and again. This did not happen.

Where to start? "Only saving grace"? Sure, brush off 1/3 of the entire program as if it doesn't exist and attack the rest as empty if that suits you. Just don't think it'll convince everyone else. And really, Swan Lake same as Liebestraume? It's about as similar as Yu-na's Giselle and her Les Miserables. Speaking of Giselle, I have to say if that wasn't a complete slaughter of what the composer intended, what is? Were you saying exactly the same during Giselle? Tarasova's intention during Swan Lake was clear: blatantly frontload the program, then do all the choreography once that's finished. This was true for Ladies in Lavender, and even for all of the programs Tarasova did for Yagudin, who is three times the performer Mao will ever be.

It's not that I disagree that the Swan Lake program isn't what Tchaikovsky intended, it's that you think any skating routine using a collection of short cuts from an extended piece of music could be anything but "artistically dishonest" that makes me laugh. Take Yu-na's Les Miserables, for example. It is a huge achievement and the standing ovation she got for it is proof. But do you really think her 4 minute mishmash of songs captures some fundamental essence of the musical? If I wanted this fundamental essence, I would've gone to see the musical. I have seen people claim that over the course of the program she portrays Fantine and Jean Valjean perfectly, and then in this thread someone else is saying that she didn't just portray Eponine, she was Eponine. So which character was she? 1, 2, all 3? All I saw was Yu-na's anguished face, her figure tilted in sorrow, and her arms reaching forward in supplication. It might be more convincing if I hadn't seen the exact same gestures in Giselle. I watched the program to watch Yu-na Kim skate with her trademark speed, jump with her trademark flawlessness, and do nice-looking spins, steps, and choreography in time to the music, not to watch her portray every character in Les Miserables, and I got exactly what I wanted. If you came to watch Mao Asada portray the prince, Odette, Odile, and von Rothbart while doing the elements of a free skating program then I can only express my deepest sympathies. During the music in the first minute of Mao's program, neither White nor Black Swan are even onstage .

I also picked out Liza since the Juniors as the one likely to succeed before she was popular and entered seniors. I have placed Li Zijun above Osmond despite the massive Osmond hype and wide appreciation. I am likely continue to do to any other skaters or any programs regardless reputation or care about the general consensus or popular believe. Oh yeah I am also one of the few who really appreciate Mao's Grand Bell of Moscow even though everyone else including Mao fans appears to hate it.

How fascinating. I intensely dislike Liza and consider Adelina far superior. Li Zijun is wonderful, and she's Chinese (a plus for my ethnic pride)! Mao's Bells to me was probably her 2nd or 3rd-best LP, and Liebestraume after Japanese Nationals 2010 was my least favorite (you can talk about Masquerade but at least she had her pristine spirals there).

 

[babyalligator]

I actually remembered the essay mainly for its incoherence and poor mechanics, but suit yourself. It wasn't your worst effort though; that would likely be the time you called Franz Liszt a composer who only wrote showoff music, described his Piano Concerto No.1 as being "classical" in style, and said it was very "German" of him (how does one get this many things wrong in such a small space?)

well, to be fair, liszt certainly made sure that he could show off with his music.

 

[pangtongfan]

1 Yuna KIM 218.31 SP 1st (BV31.63 GOE5.16) 　FP 1st (BV58.22 GOE16.51)
2 Carolina KOSTNER 197.89 SP 2nd (BV29.93 GOE4.08) 　FP 3rd (BV50.75 GOE10.59)
3 Mao ASADA 　196.47 SP 6th (BV27.15 GOE2.55) 　 FP 2nd (BV62.30 GOE3.66)

I just realized that even with the missed jump and downgrades, Mao still achieved the highest base value of the three in the free program. That's just mad. Mao should just scale down on her jump content and aim to skate clean.
She should even stop practicing the triple-axel altogether, and just focus on perfecting her flip and lutz so that she can have a triple-triple combo in her short. She's already got similar GOEs to Yuna this time except the flip and lutz. As long as she can get the quality of her toe jumps up, and as long as Yuna doesn't do a loop, Mao would be able to beat her.

Mao is never going to beat not only Yu Na Kim but now also Carolina Kostner on GOE and PCS. She has to do a harder jump layout, unless she wants to rely on them making mistakes. Can she do a less hard jump layout, one she might actually have a hope to execute cleanly, but still have enough of a cushion to have a chance. Perhaps, it is up to her to examine that, but she certainly cant do the same difficulty as Kim and Kostner and hope to beat them if they skate cleanly.

As for toe jumps, Kim is probably the best toe jumper ever (the fluke edge call by a ridiculous caller in the SP aside) and Mao flutzes. She will never match Kim on GOE on toe jumps, even if she improves them.

 

[pangtongfan]

You wouldn't be singing the same tune if Mao and Yu-Na's scores and performances had been swapped.

Of course she wouldnt have, and the only major controversial and borderline scandalous result for women this year was Mao`s win at NHK over Suzuki, but of course Mary had absolutely nothing to say on that (predictable). Atleast Kim has never won a single event or medal controversially her whole career, and the only thing you can question sometimes are the scores and margins, but not the actual result. In fact she twice at Worlds was said by many to be possibly robbed of a higher result (Worlds 2008 and even Worlds 2011). Mao and especialy Kostner (I actually love Kostner`s skating apart from the headcaseness but that list for her is a long) certainly cant say they have never won any controversial titles or medals.

 

[jaylee]

I'm late to make this observation, but I thought some other poster would by now, but since no one has, I'd like to point out that Carolina Kostner's 3-3 was under-rotated, and she didn't get a call. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5suwKlI9ZB4&feature=player_detailpage. Sure the under-rotation is borderline, but Mao's flip which got an under-rotation call was more rotated than Carolina's toe loop, I think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uVi3Eue5ik&feature=player_detailpage. So between Carolina's toe loop and Mao's flip, if one of them was going to be called an under-rotation, shouldn't it have been Carolina's toe loop?

So really, shouldn't Carolina have won bronze and Mao silver? Not that I care all that much. But still....

Yes, when I originally saw the replay of Carolina Kostner's 3T/3T in the arena, even from a distance, I thought it was clearly underrotated. But her unexpectedly high score meant that they hadn't called it.

I would have had Mao ahead of Carolina overall. However, I would have had Kanako Murakami ahead of both of them, so then Mao would still have been third. Taking into account Kostner's strengths such as her superior skating skills and deserved better GOE for individual jumps cleanly landed, for me personally, Kanako had the second-best overall combination of performance/technical components.