2013 Worlds Ladies FS

[R.D.]

The competition at this year's Russian Nationals will be absolutely brutal--with Lipnitskaia and Pogorilaya coming of age, Leonova attempting to regain some dignity, and Tukt and Sotnikova fighting for the chance to prove themselves again, it'll be one hell of a show.

And they only have two spots...same EXACT position we were in 4 years ago...so many contenders, plus you had the return of Cohen to complicate things further.

 

[Skater Boy]

I think Tukt and Sotnikova will both have something to say at WTT next week, where there's considerably less pressure. They probably knew, going into Worlds, that it was up to the two of them to secure Russia's 3 Olympic spots--Alena Leonova sure couldn't do it. And that's a ridiculous amount of expectation to put on the shoulders of sixteen-year-old rookies. At least Gracie Gold had Ashley Wagner to lean on, and Zijun Li simply had a marvelous FS because she had no pressure to deliver three spots for China (though, I might add, only placed a bare two points ahead of Gracie's mistake-sprinkled FS).

ITA about Europeans. We need to remember that if Kiira Korpi had been present and healthy, either Tukt or Sotnikova may not have medalled at all. The competition at this year's Russian Nationals will be absolutely brutal--with Lipnitskaia and Pogorilaya coming of age, Leonova attempting to regain some dignity, and Tukt and Sotnikova fighting for the chance to prove themselves again, it'll be one hell of a show.

that is kind of a scarey statement - double edge. yes, Korpi cold beat both Liza and Adelina - and that can be taken many ways including how bad the Euro ladies are lol. Korpi winning a medal can be taken many ways - she is an awesome skater or it is pretty weak competition because she has not mastered the harder jumps though she is beautifuly - still beauty is not a judging criteria - at least not stated lol.

 

[ForeverFish]

that is kind of a scarey statement - double edge. yes, Korpi cold beat both Liza and Adelina - and that can be taken many ways including how bad the Euro ladies are lol. Korpi winning a medal can be taken many ways - she is an awesome skater or it is pretty weak competition because she has not mastered the harder jumps though she is beautifuly - still beauty is not a judging criteria - at least not stated lol.

Well, Korpi's track record speaks for itself--three medals in the past six years, and she hasn't finished lower than 5th since 2007 Euros. She does have a lovely presence on the ice--mature presentation, nice spins, acceptable jumps, and most importantly, the ability to hold herself together. Now that Lepisto and Meier are both gone, and Gedevanishvili seems to have hit a hard slump, who's to say that Korpi can't consistently medal and out-place the Russian babies?

 

[TontoK]

Putting aside the vagaries of TES and PCS, I'd rather watch Korpi.

 

[gmyers]

Why? Except for the obvious reason that worlds were a qualifying event for Olympics. Euros are almost as prestigious as worlds (at least in Europe) and 4CC is also starting to be a very important event now that North America and Asia are dominating the sport. I don't see how being 7th at worlds is better than medaling at Euros to be honest, no matter how good Zijun was in the LP. Liza's season was better than Zijun Li's, and I might say Adelina's too. Liza placed 4th and second in the GP events(she was really good in TEB), a good showing in the GPF, winning Russian Nationals, having one of the best LP of the season at Euros and placing in top 10 at worlds. Adelina medaled in Nebelhorn Trophy, Skate America and Europeans. Zijun was 4th and 5th at her GP events, 5th in four continents and 7th at worlds. She really had an amazing LP in London and ended her season on a high note but that doesn't take away the fact that she didn't medal in any big international competition so far. She did better than the Russian ladies at worlds but a 7th place overall is not that much better than 9th and 10th IMO. I do admit that Li was somehow underscored in 4CC and her consistency is getting much much better than the Russian ladies so far. Her performance here made the judges finally rewarding her properly and this could benefit her next season.
As to Gracie, this is her first really good competition as a senior skater. She held it together very well and surpassed my expectations. I hope she does it again next season.

It Is not just that the worlds were a qualifier for the Olympics. It was what Adelina and Elizaveta were presumably working towards Doing well at all season! But instead of doing well or respectably given their level of talent one placed 14 in the sp and the other 8th! It's not like they haven't known for years this is where they wanted to be and were expected to be by everyone for years. Ok both their bodies changed or whatever but they could do everything they planned in both their Sps and lp's and demonstrated it really a few weeks earlier! If worlds comes and they can't do What they can do- no excuse is good. This is where they wanted to be , expected to be, and could do everything. Li didn't medal at any gp but saved her best for worlds which is what i assume every skater wants. Ok so Liza and Adelina are expected to win or medal at every event they go to and when they don't there's problems for them. Of course there is! They have all the talent to win! And they want to do well so if there is a problem they should want to face It and fix it. Euros showed the growth issues werent a problem!

Well, we agree on some things. I think they're both technically capable. They didn't skate their best. They could have bright futures. A medal at Europeans does not compensate for a poor outing at WC.

What they need to figure out is why the poor showing... what caused it? I think it was nerves, and I think it was the higher expectations placed on them.

I also think that's why Gracie and Zijun skated better. Fewer expectations placed on them this season, because they hadn't shown consistency.

Now... will they back it up now that the expectations have risen? How will the Russian girls respond to disappointment on a big stage? I suppose we'll find out.

FWIW, I still think they did well for their first outing, and they both had an admirable season overall.

Liza and Adelina were totally inconsistent in the gp too! Then they both go to euros and almost beat Carolina! So what was the problem? They were at a worlds they were expected to be at and wanted to be at for 4 years? Then they freaked out? If they freaked out - both of them- they really do need sports psychologists.

If they both do well at the wtt then that just shows they need help in dealing with crowds or worlds or whatever worlds is to them. Liza just needs help with Sps anyway! She could place last in the wtt sp and first in the lp!! She just needs help with the sp!

 

[ForeverFish]

It Is not just that the worlds were a qualifier for the Olympics. It was what Adelina and Elizaveta were presumably working towards Doing well at all season! But instead of doing well or respectably given their level of talent one placed 14 in the sp and the other 8th! It's not like they haven't known for years this is where they wanted to be and were expected to be by everyone for years. Ok both their bodies changed or whatever but they could do everything they planned in both their Sps and lp's and demonstrated it really a few weeks earlier! If worlds comes and they can't do What they can do- no excuse is good. This is where they wanted to be , expected to be, and could do everything. Li didn't medal at any gp but saved her best for worlds which is what i assume every skater wants. Ok so Liza and Adelina are expected to win or medal at every event they go to and when they don't there's problems for them. Of course there is! They have all the talent to win! And they want to do well so if there is a problem they should want to face It and fix it. Euros showed the growth issues werent a problem!

I think that Euros was the flash in the pan, not Worlds. Really, Kostner was the only other skater in Zagreb who could have given the Russian girls a hard time, and she did, even without a clean 3-3 in either segment of the competition. In Korpi's absence, either Tukt or Sotnikova NOT medalling would have boded ill for the future of Russian skating.

Sotnikova is nearly seventeen, and should be done growing. She's well-proportioned--long, strong legs, a flexible and lean torso. Her issue is a psychological one that causes her to doubt herself WHILE SHE'S ROTATING A JUMP, which is a fail-safe recipe for disaster.

But I have to wonder if you even watched Tukt at Worlds. Each movement she made, even in her much-improved free skate, seemed painstaking and slow. It almost looked like she was wading through water while her legs slowly gave out with each jumping pass. She hit a high note at TEB, Russian Nationals, and Euros, but it was painfully clear at the GPF and Worlds that she's still struggling with growth.

 

[R.D.]

I don't think they're done yet. Same with Osmond. Give them time.

 

[gmyers]

Obviously I watched worlds and it the whole competition was a possibly a ruinous moment for both skaters as it was a total "emperor has no clothes" situation for both of them. They both need radical overhauls in everything about their skating if they want to make it as seniors.

 

[ForeverFish]

Obviously I watched worlds and it the whole competition was a possibly a ruinous moment for both skaters as it was a total "emperor has no clothes" situation for both of them. They both need radical overhauls in everything about their skating if they want to make it as seniors.

All right, as you wish.

But I (and most others, I'd assume) don't consider top ten at their first Worlds to be "ruinous." They could both certainly use some coaching in mental toughness, but everything else should fall into place after they cross the growth barrier and start peaking later in the season.

 

[gmyers]

Their placement is irrelevant to how they skated. What does 9 and 10 really mean when you can go there and medal your first time. Place 4th in a sp and 4th in an lp which is what osmond and li did. I don't get the big deal about top 10 a worlds their first time. Maybe they should be happy they even qualified for the free skate I guess if that's a standard.

 

[Mirunna]

Their placement is irrelevant to how they skated.

I agree, it's irrelevant. They skated quite well overall and in every other year (except maybe 2007 and 2009) they would have probably placed around 5th or 6th place (especially last year). The level was very very high this year. One would assume they skated worse just by seeing the final outcome.

 

[gmyers]

If they both hadn't bombed they could have been up there with zijun li and gold. Not having a 14th place sp would have been good for 5th or 6th possibly. Their level can't be high? Too bad for them the level was high? That's what their level is supposed to be. At least 4th like zijun li or gold.

 

[ForeverFish]

Their placement is irrelevant to how they skated. What does 9 and 10 really mean when you can go there and medal your first time. Place 4th in a sp and 4th in an lp which is what osmond and li did. I don't get the big deal about top 10 a worlds their first time. Maybe they should be happy they even qualified for the free skate I guess if that's a standard.

It's worth noting that Osmond was 8th in the FS and Li was all the way back in 12th after the SP. In terms of visible errors, Osmond wins the title with two back-to-back falls in the FS. Tukt comes in a close second, with the impromptu knee slide in the SP that was such a freak of nature, even she was shocked. Li and Sotnikova each fell once, which killed their chances at the top 5.

You really expected the Russian babies to medal in their first time out? With Mao, Carolina, and Yuna present and at top form?

Sotnikova's score of 175.98 would have placed her fifth at 2012 Worlds ahead of Murakami and Asada, fifth at 2011 Worlds ahead of Murakami and Asada, and sixth at 2010 Worlds ahead of Nagasu and Suzuki. Tukt's score of 174.24 would have (separately) placed her sixth at 2012 Worlds, fifth at 2011 Worlds, and eighth at 2010 Worlds.

Mirunna is right--in any other year but this one, Tukt and Sotnikova would have had VERY respectable finishes for their debut Worlds. Overall, neither of them skated particularly worse than what they've been putting out all season (excepting Tukt's SP accident), but now they've gotten at taste of Worlds and can use the knowledge to prepare for next year. The pre-Olympic Worlds is usually the toughest. Gracie Gold's sixth-place 184.25 would have gotten her the BRONZE MEDAL in 2012, a hairsbreadth behind Alena Leonova.

 

[venlac]

I just realized that in world mao's FS score was her personal best; broke the record of 6 years ago