2013 worlds pairs FS

[skatel80]

Wow for V/T that was an incredible performance those throws were monstrous ! they were in a league of their own tonight
Aliona and Robin were really gutsy to do the throw 3a at the very end, Wow!
I am so happy for Duhamel and Radford, they really deserved that medal, they have improved so much over the course of the season and their sbs 3lz is one of my fovourite elements of any pairs team M-T/M were beautiful too, how wonderful for the canadian teams to skate so well in their home country

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

But the problem is, fans don't want to be given a homework assignment. They just want to enjoy the competition.

Exactly. It's hard enough justifying to a casual viewer why a single fall gets 2nd place while others skate clean. It's even harder to justify why THREE major errors get 2nd place while others skate clean. Add to the fact that it's Canadians getting jipped in both situations and it being held in Canada, and then people wonder why so many say figure skating (or its judging, rather) is a sham.

I think the problem though from this pairs competition is even fans of figure skating have a hard time processing how three triple jumps turned to doubles, a two-footed throw and a fall can place ahead of clean skates (not just overall, but in the actual FS segment!), even with levels considered. And it's not like the Germans had a perfectly executed SP either, when both Canadian teams did.

It's disheartening for any team - what's the point of competing when even if you go clean with big difficulty, those who make multiple major errors are still placed ahead of you?!

 

[plushyfan]

lets just say, there was no reason they would not have won, V/T would have scored a 150+ if it wasn't for Maxim fluke fall
those who claim S/S should have won are nothing but rabid jealousy, they were already overscored and should have only gotten bronze

:thumbsup:

 

[Art&Sport]

lets just say, there was no reason they would not have won, V/T would have scored a 150+ if it wasn't for Maxim fluke fall
those who claim S/S should have won are nothing but rabid jealousy, they were already overscored and should have only gotten bronze

Where are people claiming S/S should have won here? I think Skater Boy posted before V/T finished skating something about "The Germans could still win." But I don't think he meant he's pulling for them, just that they were in first over D/R with a decent score. If anything, Max and Tatiana were over-scored a bit, but still would have comfortably won regardless if they'd made another mistake aside from Maxim's fall.

This was the best V/T have skated all season. A season during which V/T were held up with numerous mistakes on many occasions. V/T's programs were conservative and safe this season, and I don't have any sense that V/T have truly found a signature style of their own. They have great potential to do amazing things re choreo and performance with the right music, but they are not there yet in terms of bringing provocative, amazing and inspiring programs to the ice on the level of S/S's The Mission, Schindler's List, Send in the Clowns, and Pina. Even S/S's Out of Africa, Casablanca, Pink Panther and some other programs are more inspired than what V/T have been bringing in terms of choreo, concept and delivery.

This season has been fair to middling for S/S but that doesn't mean that suddenly D/R or even V/T are so much better than them in every way, or that S/S deserve to be low-balled and pushed to third at this Worlds. They did enough to be exactly where they are, in second. D/R I am quite sure are overjoyed. I would be surprised if D/R have the feeling that they are so much better than S/S at this point. I don't think Meagan and Eric have the mindset of arrogance. They always put their nose to the grindstone, work hard, and worry about improving themselves, not about what mistakes others made that mean they are so much better. D/R's belief in themselves and their hard work on improving their lines and transitions paid off here and I'm so happy for them.

The people booing S/S scores in the audience need to get a life. S/S were well below their SB in fp, and were dinned a bit in the sp. Ain't that enuf for all you S/S detractors? ... I guess not. Then go ahead and pout. None of these pairs teams are gonna be pouting, I'll bet, that is if they hope to be on target for being competitive next season. Pouting gets no one anywhere. I speak from experience.

 

[wallylutz]

Ha ha! Now with that unexpected fall by Max, will we hear people sayin' D/R deserved to beat V/T too?!

D/R are happy being on the podium people. That's what they were aiming for and they did a great job. Seriously though they are very close, D/R are not yet 4-time World champion beaters. And I happen to love D/R! The sp scores were well-deserved b/c D/R skated so inspired, but to be ahead of S/S even in the short was a serious over-achieving accomplishment. D/R were shocked and surprised at that too. D/R were quite good in fp, but not as f'ing great as in their sp.

Shame on the Canadian audience for booing Savchenko/Szolkowy.

PJ Kwong dissed the French crowd last year for booing Chan's win, now the Canadian audience has done the same.

Sour grapes popping up in perfect unison...why am I not surprised?

The audience was booing the judges, not S/S. During the award ceremony, S/S received warm applauses. Someone in the audience even yelled : "Judges should be fired!" Clearly, whatever emotions there were, it was directed at the judges. We were sandwiched between Dylan and Meghan's family in the stands. Meghan's mother accidentally let out a scream of joy after K/S' score knowing that they made the podium but that was it - it wasn't a celebration of K/S's mishap. Could you please refrain from spreading false rumor on the internet like Phil Harsh's manipulative and intentional out of context quote on Scott Moir? These media wars are really silly and childish.

 

[FSGMT]

Exactly. It's hard enough justifying to a casual viewer why a single fall gets 2nd place while others skate clean. It's even harder to justify why THREE major errors get 2nd place while others skate clean. Add to the fact that it's Canadians getting jipped in both situations and it being held in Canada, and then people wonder why so many say figure skating (or its judging, rather) is a sham.

I think the problem though from this pairs competition is even fans of figure skating have a hard time processing how three triple jumps turned to doubles, a two-footed throw and a fall can place ahead of clean skates (not just overall, but in the actual FS segment!), even with levels considered. And it's not like the Germans had a perfectly executed SP either, when both Canadian teams did.

It's disheartening for any team - what's the point of competing when even if you go clean with big difficulty, those who make multiple major errors are still placed ahead of you?!

There has to be something that a casual fan doesn't understand: (s)he wouldn't be a "casual" fan if (s)he could understand evrything watching just two competition throughout the season (or this sport would be too easy to unedrstand, and FS is not an easy sport to understand!)! If I watch a sport that I don't know for the first time, I don't expect to judge it, and if the results are not clear to me and I'm interested, I'll go and read the rules, so I can understand! Figure skating is a complex sport, not like many of those really popular (and easy to understand) sports, and it can't be easy to understand, that's also why I find it so beautiful!!

 

[wallylutz]

I agree. The Germans are just smoother with all their movements, especially their transition, and more graceful. D/R have the tricks, but their execution is choppy and sometimes even sloppy; there isn't much transition between elements. Also, because Robin and Aljona aren't that different in height, their lines when they skate together are cleaner and more pleasing to the eye. Eric and Meagan are so different in size that they have little symmetry.

If S/S hadn't done the 3A throw at the end of the program, D/R would have won silver. I think it was very gutsy of Aljona and Robin to go for it.

If it were an American couple who lost the Silver medal to the Germans, you would be screaming bloody murder by now and demand an investigation. :sarcasm:

 

[Jammers]

I have to say i prefer M-T-M to D/R.

 

[SamuraiKike]

S&S basically throw a 3A to hang onto the silver position. Their risk paid off. They are my fave team ever but even I would have ranked them off the podium tonight.

I prefer COP to 6.0 and I do think that this result is easily explainable to casual viewers after the firs outrage eraction ( Big tricks gain more points, fair enough) but it shows the main problem we have now: A skating program is the sum of its parts and the system sometimes fails big time to reflect that.

 

[Art&Sport]

Sour grapes popping up in perfect unison...why am I not surprised?

The audience was booing the judges, not S/S...

Ha ha, shoe on other foot for Canadians, as the French audience in Nice last year were also booing the judges' scores in men's final, but that didn't keep many Canadian fans from crying foul and claiming that Patrick was being booed and dissed. If you guys were so worried about how it made Patrick feel, don't you think the booing made S/S feel bad too? Yeah right, I know, short-sighted thinking, eh? Ever heard of this axiom: What's sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander!

In any case, wallylutz, the sour grapes are coming from those who booed the judges' scoring of S/S performance.

I happen to love D/R, but if shoe were on other foot as someone already pointed out, and D/R were 4-time World champions who made errors on a jump element and had crappy costumes and the wrong music but toughed it out all season and were deservedly taken down some notches from their SB score for fp at Worlds, but yet their lesser scores still allowed them to win over an inspired but not World beating performance by an up-and-coming team, would the Canadian audience still be booing??? Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

 

[sky_fly20]

btw this is already known but this FreeSkate was dedicated for the Japanese people victims of the Tsunami
hope especially people from Sendai appreciate it once they get to see it also the hometown of my prince Hanyu

 

[lavender]

If it were an American couple who lost the Silver medal to the Germans, you would be screaming bloody murder by now and demand an investigation. :sarcasm:

Not I. I'm an American and I don't follow the American pair anymore. They break up too much. It wouldn't bother me if S/S whom I'm a fan of came out ahead. They are just overall better than them than what we have now.

 

[sky_fly20]

The people booing S/S scores in the audience need to get a life. S/S were well below their SB in fp, and were dinned a bit in the sp. Ain't that enuf for all you S/S detractors? ... I guess not. Then go ahead and pout. None of these pairs teams are gonna be pouting, I'll bet, that is if they hope to be on target for being competitive next season. Pouting gets no one anywhere. I speak from experience.

I'm not a fan of S/S but that was indeed rude
I cannot fathom who is the worst audience behavior in Canada or the one in France

 

[Mao88]

PAIRS FREE SKATE - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

1. Tatiana VOLOSOZHAR & Maxim TRANKOV (RUS) - 225.71 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
2. Aliona SAVCHENKO & Robin SZOLKOWY (GER) - 205.56 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
3. Meagan DUHAMEL & Eric RADFORD (CAN) - 204.56 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
4. Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS & Dylan MOSCOVITCH (CAN) - 199.50 Free Skate
5. Qing PANG & Jian TONG (CHN) - 194.64 Free Skate
6. Yuko KAVAGUTI & Alexander SMIRNOV (RUS) - 191.59 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
7. Vera BAZAROVA & Yuri LARIONOV (RUS) - 184.72 Free Skate
8. Vanessa JAMES & Morgan CIPRES (FRA) - 180.17 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
9. Alexa SCIMECA & Chris KNIERIM (USA) - 173.51
10. Stefania BERTON & Ondrej HOTAREK (ITA) - 171.77 Free Skate
11. Cheng PENG & Hao ZHANG (CHN) - 167.18
12. Wenjing SUI & Cong HAN (CHN) - 165.89 Free Skate
13. Marissa CASTELLI & Simon SHNAPIR (USA) - 164.00 Free Skate
14. Nicole DELLA MONICA & Matteo GUARISE (ITA) - 136.03 Free Skate
15. Stacey KEMP & David KING (GBR) - 133.56 Free Skate
16. Mari VARTMANN & Aaron VAN CLEAVE (GER) - 133.12 Free Skate

 

[WeakAnkles]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone think Denney/Coughlin would have done better than Scimeca/Knierim if they had 1. been here and 2. been healthy?

I wonder...

 

[Kinga]

There's nothing about falls in the PE criteria. If a skater falls but doesn't let that fall affect his performance and meets all of the criteria, that is theoretically possible.

I guess a fall always affects the performance, hence it should be reflected in PE. The way you phrase it just gives room for holding up skaters. Every judge can justify his/her action by saying - yeah, they fell, but it did not affect the performance.
And that is just wrong.

They also gave S/S +2s for a triple twist with a big crash. S/S got higher GOE on the 3tw than D/R who actually had a clean one, executed brilliantly with a strong catch.

This is what annoys me the most. There should be consequences of such crooked (or sloppy) judging, so that such situations won't repeat.

 

[chuckm]

The audience was booing the judges, not S/S. During the award ceremony, S/S received warm applauses. Someone in the audience even yelled : "Judges should be fired!" Clearly, whatever emotions there were, it was directed at the judges. We were sandwiched between Dylan and Meghan's family in the stands. Meghan's mother accidentally let out a scream of joy after K/S' score knowing that they made the podium but that was it - it wasn't a celebration of K/S's mishap. Could you please refrain from spreading false rumor on the internet like Phil Harsh's manipulative and intentional out of context quote on Scott Moir? These media wars are really silly and childish.

Booing the judges is saying to the Germans: YOU DON'T DESERVE YOUR MEDAL!
And screaming "THE JUDGES SHOULD BE FIRED" during the awards ceremony is even worse.

It is rude and totally obnoxious behavior. I've always been told Canadians were the best and most supportive audiences for all the skaters, but the Pairs audience sure disproved that.

As for Scott Moir's remarks, he isn't the most pleasant of people when he's not winning, and he says things out loud that he should have kept to himself. If media people go out of their way to interpret what Scott says, it's HIS fault for giving them the opportunity and the means to make things worse. Chan used to do the same thing, but lately he's been more circumspect. Scott could benefit by doing the same.

 

[koatcue]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone think Denney/Coughlin would have done better than Scimeca/Knierim if they had 1. been here and 2. been healthy?

I wonder...

Maybe..But I don't find them enchanting. S/K have this "something" for me

 

[katia]

The people booing S/S scores in the audience need to get a life.

Why? S/S scores were much too high and that was the problem.
No one was booing V/T. Although their scores were also too high they deserved to win and the audience could feel it.

 

[Bentley]

There is no excuse for booing the Skaters of another Country. The Canadian Fans are very rude. They only cheer for their Countrymen and not when some one skates well. Shame on them.