- Joined
- Jun 8, 2010
Let me correct you on this. Adelina's realistic short program score is 66-67 under generous judging with an assumption that she landed all jumps.
2014 Olympics Ladies Free Skate
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
Let me correct you on this. Adelina's realistic short program score is 66-67 under generous judging with an assumption that she landed all jumps.
She screwed up 1 of her combo so it didn't matter she had 1 more jump.
Difficulty of entries and exit imo goes to Yuna's program. This is subjective on both sides so I'll leave it there.
The level 3 vs 4 again goes back to the judging issue that you keep ignoring.
TES was not overwhelmingly won by Adelina because she didn't have a clean program to begin with.
PCS again goes back to the judging and the fact that 2 judges are highly dubious PLUS the ridiculous protocols from 2 judges. Actual ridiculous scores from the protocol trumps really any your personal preference for who skated better.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2013
Hey look, you guys win ok? You just swarm and swamp boards, youtube, internet, etc. with newly minted acoounts, etc. repeating the same over and over, attacking and attacking, it's just no point is there? Not interested in continuing this conversation, haven't seen any fresh evidence of Kim skating better than Sotnikova or Mao, better than Caro, yes, so NO, not convinced.
Another US article I'd recommend
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Olym...ging-How-did-Adelina-Sotnikova-beat-Kim-Yu-na
On Thursday, Sotnikova put together a program worth a lot more points than Kim's, which means she could afford a minor bobble and still win. In fact, her technical scores were so much higher than Kim's, she might have been able to fall once and still win.
This is how she did it.
In the free skate, each skater can put in three combination jumps. Combination jumps are important because they're the biggest point-getters out there. For example, one triple Lutz is worth 6.0 points. But put it in combination with a triple toe, and it's 10.10 points.
Sotnikova blew Kim away with her combinations. Sotnikova's three combination jumps added up to 27.48 points, with Kim's adding up to 22.64 points – a massive 4.84 point gap. Over all the other elements of the program – single jumps, spins, and footwork – Kim managed to claw back 0.90 points. But the damage was done, considering she came into the free skate only 0.28 points ahead of Sotnikova.
Another US article I'd recommend
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Olym...ging-How-did-Adelina-Sotnikova-beat-Kim-Yu-na
On Thursday, Sotnikova put together a program worth a lot more points than Kim's, which means she could afford a minor bobble and still win. In fact, her technical scores were so much higher than Kim's, she might have been able to fall once and still win.
This is how she did it.
In the free skate, each skater can put in three combination jumps. Combination jumps are important because they're the biggest point-getters out there. For example, one triple Lutz is worth 6.0 points. But put it in combination with a triple toe, and it's 10.10 points.
Sotnikova blew Kim away with her combinations. Sotnikova's three combination jumps added up to 27.48 points, with Kim's adding up to 22.64 points – a massive 4.84 point gap. Over all the other elements of the program – single jumps, spins, and footwork – Kim managed to claw back 0.90 points. But the damage was done, considering she came into the free skate only 0.28 points ahead of Sotnikova.
I love how some people just keep repeating that Yuna didn't bring her A game and hoping it'd somehow stick and that would just excuse clear judging bias. The level 3/4 thing is a level you hit or not. It does not depend on taste or perspective or even different check marks you hit for extra GOEs.
Even Philip Hersh's tweet was saying it's ridiculous that they don't explain why Yuna's step sequence was downgraded. But it was downgraded for free. Keep repeating something so subjective as "Yuna didn't bring her A game and didn't deserve the scores she got in Vancouver (while clearly Adelina does, apparently)" does not excuse odd judging.
I'm not convinced the judging wasn't biased, either.
But yeah, this is getting tiresome. Why bother?
I think we understand that you preferred Adelina's skate better than Yuna and Kostner's. The topic of real essence is if the judges were biased. I think there is more evidence that it was biased than not. I've listed out my reasons why with actual dubious judges (not an opinion but fact) and also protocols that support the claims about the unfair judging. These things are lot more convincing to me than your personal opinion.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2013
What?? According to your Math?? She still gets points for doing the jump, just -GOE to penalize a sloppy one. This = No Jump = 0???
Competition is based on points scored!
this is why I can't take you guys seriously.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2013
Look, your contention that extra jump but sloppy execution means extra jump doesn't matter to winning is just showing how poorly you understood the sport, so what qualifies you to judge the judges?
We know she scored higher...duh. The way she got those points are most likely due to the biased judges. Was that fair?
I didn't judge the judges. It is known fact that one is married to the head of the Russian Federation and the other was a Ukraine judge once suspended for fixing the Nagano Olympics.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2013
So that alone makes them corrupt at this Olympics? :sarcasm:
As the article pointed out, you can't rig the game with TES, as there are criteria to determine these scores, including GOE.
Components are more like the old 6.0 system, but there are still visible, tangible criteria to judge, and Kim, Caro all received 10s, Sotnikova received 8s and 9s.
Like I said, insinuations, etc. isn't evidence or proof. If Kim had brought an equally difficult program and skated lights out, then there's more to debate. Sotnikova did bring her A game and skated like her life depended on it, maybe it did, and she won.
More than one thing happened. You should follow other threads. The officially corrupt judge is back, and judged the FS.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2013
No, you have not presented evidence or facts to show that the judging was corrupt or biased. I have shown evidence that these scores were properly racked up by Sotnikova, whether or not the judges preferred her or Kim. These are not my personal opinions, these are scores, they are Math. Your saying that her extra jump doesn't matter because she messed it up is an opinion, not FACT, because in fact, she got points for them, enough to beat Kim's TES scores.
The scores of 9 judges are also randomly programmed to drop 2 scores, then the highest and lowest of the remaining 7 are disregarded, the average of the rest appear as final. So it's not enough to have one or two bribed judges to push a weak skater to the top.
The logic goes this way - prove that the scoring by Sotnikova was improper with evidence, then it indicates judging is corrupt.
I actually do not quite care if you, or the other Kim ubers are convinced by these facts, because you are ONLY convinced about Kim. If Kim didn't win, it's because the system is corrupt, because Kim should win, fact. It's like religion, you can't argue with science against staunch belief.
Bring facts to the table, not insinuations, allegations, then it's worth talking.
Just a coincidence that 2 protocols are heavily up scoring Adelina? Just a coincidence that one judge is partial to Russia and another was a cheat?
Look at Adelina's Protocol for judge 7 for example:
GOE:
3
3
3
3
3
-1 (the combo jump where she stepped out)
3
3
3
2
3
PCS:
9.5
9.5
9.75
9.75
9.75
From the way this was scored, this judge obviously thought it was WR performance. It was really good but it doesn't come close to Yuna's FS in Vancouver.
It isn't just one judge either. Not as bad but judge 7 but look at the scores for judge2:
GOE:
2
3
3
3
3
-1
2
3
2
3
3
3
PCS:
9.5
9.25
9.75
9.75
9.75
Good luck defending these scores.
Flutz with +3 GOE...lol. It should be -1. That's just one example of the flawed judging this Olympics. Others have mentioned more as well. I'll quote you one here also:
I didn't even get to talking about those PCS scores also. There is also a 7.75 PCS component score for Yuna. The current leader of PCS skating get a 7.75 for a PCS component??? I'll bet that was either the cheat or the Russian judge.
Such things are "suspicious" - just like the past scandals, alleged conflicts of interest etc etc. But they're not "evidence". They're ad hominem, a logical fallacy.
I actually thought the ladies' finish order was right, but even so I was surprised by the actual scores. (I thought the same at the last Olympics too). Still, I am not willing to say "fair" or "unfair" without strong evidence either way, I'm not seeing anything convincing (yet), and currently I lean towards "fair" because of commentary by prominent skating commentators, ex-skaters etc.
Also, "Innocent until proven guilty"
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2013
The Yuna fans are such hypocrites and users. They are now so full of praise Mao and her skating. I remember a year ago at Worlds reading posts like how Mao was overscored in PCS despite the fact that she was already 5 points back from their Queen. Their actually using her as ammunition against Adelina.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2013
Do you even know how the scores are tabulated?? The highest and lowest scores are disregarded, 2 scores are randomly selected and then dropped, you don't know which judges scores were kept or dropped, so again, you're clueless about the system and repeating ad nauseum doesn't make it fact.
GOE is easily reviewed based on a formal criteria of execution, speed, flow, height, entrance, exit, etc. faster, higher, stronger, like the song goes.
Opinion that she shouldn't score higher than Kim for each jump doesn't make it fact. Show us the EVIDENCE, play by play, why her GOE is undeserved.
GOE is easily reviewed based on a formal criteria of execution, speed, flow, height, entrance, exit, etc. faster, higher, stronger, like the song goes.
Opinion that she shouldn't score higher than Kim for each jump doesn't make it fact. Show us the EVIDENCE, play by play, why her GOE is undeserved.
I think you are taking this as a fight, but figure fans are just questioning the legitimacy of the judging system, because many detect some suspicion. And well, having two questionable judges definitely raises some suspicion. Therefore it would be worth the re-investigation.
You said, "It's like religion [...]" but I think you are the strong believer of some kind of religion, and not trying to communicate. You keep repeating, "bring me the evidence" while several posters are bringing solid information from valid sources. Also, your "facts" are based on the results by the judges including the 2 questionable judges, which is very shaky. For example, you mentioned that Sotnikova earned level 4 while Yuna got 3. Yes, this is true that Sotnikova got level 4 and Kim got 3, but this is exactly some of us are questioning. So it doesn't help for you to repeat these. This is very unreasonable while you are not bringing facts or evidences that prove the judges were not corrupt, yet keep demanding us to bring more facts.
