2015 US Nationals Senior Men Short Program Jan 23

[zschultz1986]

Uh.. I did say my impressions is on 'personal preference' and have no problem with the rankings, so what is the big deal? I generally rank skaters according to the programs/performance I like the best on a holistic artistic level, and I am simply not a fan of this type of program. As for everything else, bottom line is Jason tends to do better at these type of programs and more known for it than something like Tristan and Isolde, which I believe he is less successful. It is fine, he is young and he will improve. As it is, he is just too hokey for me to appreciate.

Don't take my opinion too seriously, I am not arrogant enough to admit that I can be wrong from time to time

Well i appreciate that, at least. I'm definitely not one with infallible opinions.

 

[el henry]

ITA. Hate to say it, but Jason deserved the lead tonight.

And I suppose what os168 means is that Jason's been doing the essentially the same programs since last season? I haven't seen his older programs but I would like to see a different style for his programs next season. It'll be interesting to see what he can do with say, a classical program.

One of Jason's older programs, to Nessun Dorma. Also in Greensboro, but four years ago. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94pHGvq3Fs

ETA: now with a link, duh.

 

[Mrs. P]

Actually he did the the classical thing back when he was a novice, ha! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qQm6gl2Amg

 

[cptnhastings]

I really liked reading your detailed opinion os168. Please do keep doing it in the future!

 

[sabinfire]

Here they come! ... from my original recording:

U.S. Nationals 2015 - Joshua Farris SP NBC (via YouTube 1080p HD)

 

[Sandpiper]

And I don't think Joshua or Jason is sitting around saying "I'm awesome with no quad!" Or that they think they're better than the top skaters. In fact, it's the opposite -- they're still young and look up to the more experienced skaters.

Bit of a late reply, but just wanted to mention--I know Jason and Josh are not sitting around going "I'm awesome with no quad." In fact, I paraphrased Jason's statement from the press conference in my original post (which Newbiespectator agreed with). My statement was more directed at some fans saying, "He's awesome without a quad! We should be complaining about the quad-skaters being overscored!" (not you, of course, Mrs. P). Josh and Jason are indeed awesome without quads, but it's more fruitful to root for their continued improvement, rather than wanting the sport to "pull back" to make way for their artistry. The quad is a very difficult, draining element, and that is precisely why it is rewarded.

But of course, as you noted, for those exact reasons, it's not an element that should be pushed when it's not ready. I certainly don't think Jason should throw it out there just for the heck of it. But if someone were to get a consistent quad, that's something to be celebrated.

As far as my personal enjoyment of the SP's last night, I'd rank them:

Joshua (I've watched this over 10 times within the last day)
Adam (a much better choice of music and program well done for choreography too Adam! re-watched 3-4 times)
Max (watched it twice)
Jason(once)
Jeremy(once)

So, that's the easiest way to know how much you like a program. How many times you go back and watch it.

My ranking would be about the same (just switching Jason and Max), though I haven't had a chance to rewatch anyone yet.

 

[Meoima]

My only criticism to the top 5 is the music, the music, even Josh! Ah... Not my taste of music at all.

 

[Alba]

My only criticism to the top 5 is the music, the music, even Josh! Ah... Not my taste of music at all.

I agree about the rest, but I loved Farris music. Maybe because of the choreo and his skating as well. It fits so well and everything felt right.

 

[Mrs. P]

Bit of a late reply, but just wanted to mention--I know Jason and Josh are not sitting around going "I'm awesome with no quad." In fact, I paraphrased Jason's statement from the press conference in my original post (which Newbiespectator agreed with). My statement was more directed at some fans saying, "He's awesome without a quad! We should be complaining about the quad-skaters being overscored!" (not you, of course, Mrs. P). Josh and Jason are indeed awesome without quads, but it's more fruitful to root for their continued improvement, rather than wanting the sport to "pull back" to make way for their artistry. The quad is a very difficult, draining element, and that is precisely why it is rewarded.

But of course, as you noted, for those exact reasons, it's not an element that should be pushed when it's not ready. I certainly don't think Jason should throw it out there just for the heck of it. But if someone were to get a consistent quad, that's something to be celebrated.

As Doris says (or said once and I can't help but repeat myself) I think there was a lot of people talking over each other last night. I think my frustration was I tried to calmly explain my position and with as much numerical facts as possible and I just wasn't getting anywhere. It felt like I was talking to a wall.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm definitely against insulting other skaters. That will get you nowhere. If people felt I was doing that, my apologies. I try, again, to talk about skaters in terms of their content/skating (i.e. layout, etc.)

I'm definitely rooting for continued development. I want Jason to get that quad (and for Josh to get it back, he DID do a ratified back way back at JGP Lake Placid in 2013). But at the same time, I hope that what THEY have achieved so far IS celebrated. I am disappointed that few took note how much better Jason's jumps looked in the SP because they focused on what he lacked. His 3A looked MUCH better than last year and he is flying and springing in his 3F-3T this season. He really wants to improve his jumps, something that he's just had to struggle with and work hard for.

And with Josh, he just has improved so much in his outward expression. I really feel his past programs just did not show off his lyrical quality that well. It took me a long time to warm up to Josh and it was only last year when I saw him skate to Schindler's List that I really truly appreciate his quality. The fact that his program gripped people from the TELEVISION is a testament to Buttle's choreography.
More people have praised him for that, so I am happy that was acknowledged.

 

[cptnhastings]

Here they come! ... from my original recording:

U.S. Nationals 2015 - Joshua Farris SP NBC (via YouTube 1080p HD)

I liked the NBC version better than the IN version since it had better close-ups (I had no idea they used different camera angles). Thanks! Now I definitely don't need to keep my DVR copy forever.

 

[msteach3]

My only criticism to the top 5 is the music, the music, even Josh! Ah... Not my taste of music at all.

Really? When watching I kept thinking how much I enjoyed the music, especially Josh's (and loved Jeremy's Sam Smith as well). It was so refreshing to get away from the old, tired and boring warhorses.

 

[Meoima]

Really? When watching I kept thinking how much I enjoyed the music, especially Josh's (and loved Jeremy's Sam Smith as well). It was so refreshing to get away from the old, tired and boring warhorses.

You are talking to someone who doesn't like Jazz, US Uk pop in general and Ed Sheeran is no exception

 

[Sandpiper]

On the music: I like Josh's just fine, don't really like Jason's but I understand it's appeal, yet I absolutely cannot stand Jeremy's. :hopelessness: It's a wonder I haven't muted him yet... the detail-obsessed part of my brain won't allow me to miss such a crucial part of the program, even if I hate it.

As Doris says (or said once and I can't help but repeat myself) I think there was a lot of people talking over each other last night. I think my frustration was I tried to calmly explain my position and with as much numerical facts as possible and I just wasn't getting anywhere. It felt like I was talking to a wall.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm definitely against insulting other skaters. That will get you nowhere. If people felt I was doing that, my apologies. I try, again, to talk about skaters in terms of their content/skating (i.e. layout, etc.)

I'm definitely rooting for continued development. I want Jason to get that quad (and for Josh to get it back, he DID do a ratified back way back at JGP Lake Placid in 2013). But at the same time, I hope that what THEY have achieved so far IS celebrated. I am disappointed that few took note how much better Jason's jumps looked in the SP because they focused on what he lacked. His 3A looked MUCH better than last year and he is flying and springing in his 3F-3T this season. He really wants to improve his jumps, something that he's just had to struggle with and work hard for.

And with Josh, he just has improved so much in his outward expression. I really feel his past programs just did not show off his lyrical quality that well. It took me a long time to warm up to Josh and it was only last year when I saw him skate to Schindler's List that I really truly appreciate his quality. The fact that his program gripped people from the TELEVISION is a testament to Buttle's choreography.
More people have praised him for that, so I am happy that was acknowledged.

I definitely don't think you were insulting anyone, Mrs. P. I wasn't part of that "talking over each other" group last night. I made one long post and then went to bed. It's just, I read up on the rest of the thread before I made said long post, and there seemed to be three opinions, 1) "J/J/J need quad, or else they're just blah" 2) "J/J/J are awesome and we should complain about quad skaters being overrated" and 3) "J/J/J are awesome. Hopefully they can get a quad and be even more awesome."

I wished to say I aligned with that last group. I feel the first two options are pointless: Option 1 is pointless because skaters can't "get" a quad by wanting one--last night they did the best they could with what they had to work with. The quad will come when it's steady in practice. Option 2 is also pointless because complaining about quad-skaters doesn't change the points they pull. I also happen to disagree with its base assumption (that quads shouldn't be around/shouldn't be valued); the quad has been with figure skating for a long time, and it is a very difficult, energy-consuming move, which is why it's rewarded.

But true, this topic has been talked about to death. The reporters really should've thought of something new. I completely agree with you that Jason had more lift in his jumps than I've seen before; heck, not just on his jumps, even in his steps and transitions! He and Josh also had fabulous spins. I definitely appreciate those, quad or no quad. :yes:

 

[Mrs. P]

On the music: I like Josh's just fine, don't really like Jason's but I understand it's appeal, yet I absolutely cannot stand Jeremy's. :hopelessness: It's a wonder I haven't muted him yet... the detail-obsessed part of my brain won't allow me to miss such a crucial part of the program, even if I hate it.


I definitely don't think you were insulting anyone, Mrs. P. I wasn't part of that "talking over each other" group last night. I made one long post and then went to bed. It's just, I read up on the rest of the thread before I made said long post, and there seemed to be three opinions, 1) "J/J/J need quad, or else they're just blah" 2) "J/J/J are awesome and we should complain about quad skaters being overrated" and 3) "J/J/J are awesome. Hopefully they can get a quad and be even more awesome."

I wished to say I aligned with that last group. I feel the first two options are pointless: Option 1 is pointless because skaters can't "get" a quad by wanting one--last night they did the best they could with what they had to work with. The quad will come when it's steady in practice. Option 2 is also pointless because complaining about quad-skaters doesn't change the points they pull. I also happen to disagree with its base assumption (that quads shouldn't be around/shouldn't be valued); the quad has been with figure skating for a long time, and it is a very difficult, energy-consuming move, which is why it's rewarded.

But true, this topic has been talked about to death. The reporters really should've thought of something new. I completely agree with you that Jason had more lift in his jumps than I've seen before; heck, not just on his jumps, even in his steps and transitions! He and Josh also had fabulous spins. I definitely appreciate those, quad or no quad. :yes:

Oh definitely I'm just sort of expressing how I felt, not really aiming it at you or anything. In fact your post and Newbie's post were the most reasoned post and I tried to latch on that. I probably stayed up too late and got a bit cranky, LOL.

Also pregnancy hormones, ha! (Okay, not really).

 

[Sandpiper]

Oh definitely I'm just sort of expressing how I felt, not really aiming it at you or anything. In fact your post and Newbie's post were the most reasoned post and I tried to latch on that. I probably stayed up too late and got a bit cranky, LOL.

Also pregnancy hormones, ha! (Okay, not really).

Congratulations! (Sorry, belated, compared to everyone else).

We really should talk about something that's not quad here... Spins? My favourites were Joshua's camel variation and Adam's layback. Though speed/quality goes to Jason, on everything.

 

[Mrs. P]

Congratulations! (Sorry, belated, compared to everyone else).

We really should talk about something that's not quad here... Spins? My favourites were Joshua's camel variation and Adam's layback. Though speed/quality goes to Jason, on everything.

Thank you! And thank you to everyone who sent their best wishes! Due date is June 15 for those who asked.

Joshua really has some nice spins. Looking at the good ol' stats he actually got better GOE than Jason! (only slightly, but still impressive to be toe-to-toe (or spin-to-spin) with Jason. Josh just didn't get the levels Jason did.

 

[Interspectator]

Congratulations! (Sorry, belated, compared to everyone else).

We really should talk about something that's not quad here... Spins? My favourites were Joshua's camel variation and Adam's layback. Though speed/quality goes to Jason, on everything.

YES! Joshua's spins... And Jason and Adam too.
I loved Joshua's sitspin that went down and then slowly up. Such control. I'm also very pleased that none of the top 3 did the but-spin if I remember correctly.
My complaint with the otherwise excellent spinners Hanyu and Shoma in Japan Nats was that they included the Butt-spin which was sooo unnecessary.
Death to the but-spin and long-live the layback spin for guys.

 

[Meoima]

^butt spin should have been banned. Crying...

 

[Sandpiper]

Joshua really has some nice spins. Looking at the good ol' stats he actually got better GOE than Jason! (only slightly, but still impressive to be toe-to-toe (or spin-to-spin) with Jason. Josh just didn't get the levels Jason did.

Huh, really? I didn't realize that! (Mrs. P, you are truly the queen of points analysis) I thought the judges would go with Jason due to his greater speed, but I guess they really appreciated the Josh's positions.

^butt spin should have been banned. Crying...

I don't think it should be banned (I'm, in principle, against outright banning things simply because they're unattractive). But it shouldn't count as a level. Then we won't be encouraging skaters to do it.

Or, in an ideal world, it still counts, but has adverse effects on your CH, P/E, and INT marks unless you're skating to some kind of "I'm sexy" program. But I don't trust the judges to do that, so I'll go with not giving it a level.

 

[msteach3]

You are talking to someone who doesn't like Jazz, US Uk pop in general and Ed Sheeran is no exception

Goodness... It's hard not to like Ed Sheeran. What type of music do you like then? Please don't say you like symphonic skating music! Ugh! :hopelessness: