2016-17 State of Russian Ice Dance

[bramweld]

YES And it honestly shouldn't. I don't think Russia deserves a third spot, with the mess they have created. Not only that, it is also time for Russia to accept that they're not gonna medal in the Olympics for the first time ever.

If there was a third spot though, fingers crossed that it's gonna be I/Z. The last thing I would want to see in this world is for S/K to qualify for the Olympics. Just No. They're the epitome of disgusting. Still not over what they did back in 2014. So nasty... And the way it was done... Going behind Elena's back, scheming with the Russian Fed? Are you kidding me? Who does that?!

I've been looking over B/S and I must say when it comes to technique they are going to drill down and get things done, but for my tastes honestly, Bobrova is rather bland. Or maybe its just that I find their FD this year utterly dull. Their best work with Zhulin to this day was Crazy, every thing else just sort of feels derivative, maybe thats why they need to try a new choreographer

 

[Aqua Lady]

I've been looking over B/S and I must say when it comes to technique they are going to drill down and get things done, but for my tastes honestly, Bobrova is rather bland. Or maybe its just that I find their FD this year utterly dull. Their best work with Zhulin to this day was Crazy, every thing else just sort of feels derivative, maybe thats why they need to try a new choreographer

I feel like that's what's pulling Russian Ice Dance down. They put all their focus on technique. 98% of the time, the music choices and the overall packaging are terrible... And it's such a shame because like what you said, B/S get the elements done but because they're so bland, they can't and don't spark interest at all.

 

[gmyers]

I feel like that's what's pulling Russian Ice Dance down. They put all their focus on technique. 98% of the time, the music choices and the overall packaging are terrible... And it's such a shame because like what you said, B/S get the elements done but because they're so bland, they can't and don't spark interest at all.

For most teams technique, music choices and packaging are terrible. Like Stepanova and Bukin. I'd hate to think technique was the focus of S/B when they had a short dance of mostly level 2's. With S/K he can't twizzle or lift a lot of the time. With I/Z many times low levels.

The worst aspect of Russian ice dance is being overly focused on 6.0 choreography. Not IJS or COP choreo.

 

[bramweld]

For most teams technique, music choices and packaging are terrible. Like Stepanova and Bukin. I'd hate to think technique was the focus of S/B when they had a short dance of mostly level 2's. With S/K he can't twizzle or lift a lot of the time. With I/Z many times low levels.

The worst aspect of Russian ice dance is being overly focused on 6.0 choreography. Not IJS or COP choreo.

So then colour me crazy, why are they getting all the support and encouragement they do get? This, this is why Russian ice dance is in the gutters, their specialists are clueless!! How many more ribs do they need Victoria to expose, before they seriously support all equitably and fairly and allow the skating to speak for itself It would not be Russian ID without the drama.

EDIT, except maybe for this season I/Z's levels have been fairly decent, its sometimes the GOE's and especially the PCS at their most recent nationals that were low. I am not 100% on this so feel free to correct me.

 

[Aqua Lady]

For most teams technique, music choices and packaging are terrible. Like Stepanova and Bukin. I'd hate to think technique was the focus of S/B when they had a short dance of mostly level 2's. With S/K he can't twizzle or lift a lot of the time. With I/Z many times low levels. The worst aspect of Russian ice dance is being overly focused on 6.0 choreography. Not IJS or COP choreo.

IMO, among all the Russians, Stepanova and Bukin actually have the most decent packaging. When I see them, I see quality. When I see S/K or I/Z, all I could say is what a mess. On S/B's levels, it seems like what you're saying is based solely on Euros, where the judging was horrendous. Their levels in COC weren't as bad.

 

[Ares]

If your top priority is 3 spots placement is the only thing that matters. If both teams are good but are 6th and 8th that's not good for three spots. If B/S is good and fourth and s/b stink and are 9th who cares if s/b stunk?

I don't care about their programs or how they skate them I just want every element to be level 3 or higher! Only step sequences can go below 4 but it's absolutely not acceptable if any lift or spin or twizzle is not level 4- because that's abnormal. Every competent team should get level 4 spins, lifts and twizzles. IJS tells you how to do this! It's not a big secret.

Maybe the Russian teams will be comfortable in Helsinki. It's right next door! Could be a lot of Russians in the crowd.

Everyone must be prepared for something like 8th and 15th though! Then you would either have "well Russia only had two spots for Salt Lake City" after whatever happened there.

You don't care for how they skate but you care for levels on Step Sequences?

It is self-contradictory statement.

Either way I expect B / S to finish 5th & S / B on 10th place. So no 3 places for Russia.

B / S can finish anywhere between 3 - 8 and S / B between 6 - 12 though. For B / S they would need to transcend themselves and benefit from mistakes from top teams.

 

[Ares]

I've been looking over B/S and I must say when it comes to technique they are going to drill down and get things done, but for my tastes honestly, Bobrova is rather bland. Or maybe its just that I find their FD this year utterly dull. Their best work with Zhulin to this day was Crazy, every thing else just sort of feels derivative, maybe thats why they need to try a new choreographer

I absolutely dislike B / S FD this season,
it's choppy, incoherent and wannabe-artsy that ends up flat & forgettable. SD does not bother me but it's generic. Their skating & dancing never strikes me as light or effortless either way. Not exactly laborous but not floating either. It's more like "hard work" and phew ... it's done after they finish their job, it makes their scores bit lower too on occasion. Their programs could disguise some of their weaker points better too. I'd like something more over the top and in your face, they could've done better with more "literal" material. That having said their Bronze medal at the European Championships (I agree with the standings) and another National title are their success.

I much prefer vivacious energy & programs of Stepanova / Bukin but I can understand their lower marks. I perceive more joy and excitation in their skating. So I get more excited watching these two skate as well.

 

[gmyers]

So then colour me crazy, why are they getting all the support and encouragement they do get? This, this is why Russian ice dance is in the gutters, their specialists are clueless!! How many more ribs do they need Victoria to expose, before they seriously support all equitably and fairly and allow the skating to speak for itself It would not be Russian ID without the drama.

EDIT, except maybe for this season I/Z's levels have been fairly decent, its sometimes the GOE's and especially the PCS at their most recent nationals that were low. I am not 100% on this so feel free to correct me.

They don't want to throw away a bronze medalist. In their view he's the reason why I/K won bronze. But he should be judged fairly. They believe he is great and must be rewarded for his greatness. Crazy. It's hard to fathom.

With the levels of I/Z you see 2s but even if it's higher the goe isn't that good because of the transition weakness. They did have bad programs and they should have never been allowed to go as far as Russian nationals with Bollywood. It was a disgarace.

IMO, among all the Russians, Stepanova and Bukin actually have the most decent packaging. When I see them, I see quality. When I see S/K or I/Z, all I could say is what a mess. On S/B's levels, it seems like what you're saying is based solely on Euros, where the judging was horrendous. Their levels in COC weren't as bad.

Coc was good but china is always friendly to Russia dancers. I can't explain that. China Grand Prix is almost like Russian nationals. Russia teams get good scores there almost always. Truth is euros. Skate Canada was low, euros is low. Russian nationals good and coc good. You need to ignor Russia nationals though. So it's two to one bad levels.

You don't care for how they skate but you care for levels on Step Sequences?

It is self-contradictory statement.

Either way I expect B / S to finish 5th & S / B on 10th place. So no 3 places for Russia.

B / S can finish anywhere between 3 - 8 and S / B between 6 - 12 though. For B / S they would need to transcend themselves and benefit from mistakes from top teams.

It does seem strange but you know how a performance can seem great and perfect but you have a lot of level 2's? I'd rather a skate that's boring but all level 4's. I'd rather get the tech score than pcs from a performance. You want both but no team can have any success with a level 1 lift or spin and level 1 or 2 step sequences.

 

[Ares]

They don't want to throw away a bronze medalist. In their view he's the reason why I/K won bronze. But he should be judged fairly. They believe he is great and must be rewarded for his greatness. Crazy. It's hard to fathom.

With the levels of I/Z you see 2s but even if it's higher the goe isn't that good because of the transition weakness. They did have bad programs and they should have never been allowed to go as far as Russian nationals with Bollywood. It was a disgarace.



Coc was good but china is always friendly to Russia dancers. I can't explain that. China Grand Prix is almost like Russian nationals. Russia teams get good scores there almost always. Truth is euros. Skate Canada was low, euros is low. Russian nationals good and coc good. You need to ignor Russia nationals though. So it's two to one bad levels.



It does seem strange but you know how a performance can seem great and perfect but you have a lot of level 2's? I'd rather a skate that's boring but all level 4's. I'd rather get the tech score than pcs from a performance. You want both but no team can have any success with a level 1 lift or spin and level 1 or 2 step sequences.

Well ... I can understand you then. Stepanova / Bukin tango FD was engaging & fierce but after tech reviews their levels were dinged pretty hard. I am not much of an expert on Ice Dancing technicals despite me being fan of discipline though. My knowledge is more superficial than it should be.


I also agree that Rus Fed favours S / K too much, you just can't rely on him. Sinitsina made significant improvement imo but it becomes useless with his errors. The best thing about Nikita this season is his handsome face.

BTW. I think that pairing ... Sinitsina / Bukin would be the best prospect for Russia in the future.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I actually really like B/S's FD this season...at least the first 2/3 before it nonsensically goes into Vivaldi. I do think it's gotten better as the season progressed.

 

[Ice Dance]

Y
B / S can finish anywhere between 3 - 8 and S / B between 6 - 12 though.

I like S&B, especially their SD; but no evidence thus far that they can finish sixth. Their fight is likely with G&F (and apparently T&T). I don't think S&B can defeat Gilles & Poirier's tango or Hubbell & Donahue without help. Both those teams have made enough serious mistakes that it's plausible S&B could get it.

But still you have:
V&M
P&C
Shibs
C&B
C&L
B&S
W&P

S&B finished fifth at SC alone. And fifth at Europeans alone. Could plausibly have finished fourth at the latter, but easily could have been sixth there as well. Even S&B's PB couldn't defeat W&P at Cup of China. Eighth, IMO, would be a huge win for Stepanova & Bukin (and probably a sign of at least two implosions). Eleventh looks more likely.

 

[Ares]

I like S&B, especially their SD; but no evidence thus far that they can finish sixth. Their fight is likely with G&F (and apparently T&T). I don't think S&B can defeat Gilles & Poirier's tango or Hubbell & Donahue without help. Both those teams have made enough serious mistakes that it's plausible S&B could get it.

But still you have:
V&M
P&C
Shibs
C&B
C&L
B&S
W&P

S&B finished fifth at SC alone. And fifth at Europeans alone. Could plausibly have finished fourth at the latter, but easily could have been sixth there as well. Even S&B's PB couldn't defeat W&P at Cup of China. Eighth, IMO, would be a huge win for Stepanova & Bukin (and probably a sign of at least two implosions). Eleventh looks more likely.

I have weak spot for Stepanova / Bukin Most likely place is 10th or just below that just like I wrote. 6th is a stretch but stranger things happened. In fact I initially included 8 - 12 range before editing my post once again. 6th would take some major implosions or / and S /B skating better than ever before.

 

[Ice Dance]

I have weak spot for Stepanova / Bukin .

I believe in dreaming big. I just remember it's a journey to get there.

 

[Arriba627]

I have weak spot for Stepanova / Bukin Most likely place is 10th or just below that just like I wrote. 6th is a stretch but stranger things happened. In fact I initially included 8 - 12 range before editing my post once again. 6th would take some major implosions or / and S /B skating better than ever before.

I like them! Can't resist posting this photo I took of them at Skate America 2014. https://pic.twitter.com/RKFQi30jvI They took the bronze and were SO happy. He just couldn't stop smiling. At that time, I don't think they spoke much English; but they didn't let that stop them from greeting people, signing autographs, letting people take their photo. A very fun moment. You can see Chock & Bates and the Shibs in the background too.

 

[madison]

I cannot help to think how much skaters' personalities count in ice dance.
I'll point here Elena I. Her personality... well, her weakness, but also her strengthen. Her emotions, her relationship with God, her insecurities and superstitions all make her special.
I'll always regret that she and Nikita never fulfilled their full potential and I wish to see more special people in ice dance, people that bring some feelings with them not only skate .

 

[madison]

I also like B/S's program. It definitely suits them and it's pretty memorable. The idea: the man that supports the woman is pretty well depicted in the movements and some of them are innovative such as the rotational lifts . I agree that it would have been better to use another piece for the second part.

 

[Aqua Lady]

The thing with B/S is that I feel like they're the most forgettable team right now. In 10 years time, if someone would ask me who Bobrova and Soloviev are, I'd be like "Who's that?"... Then the person I'm talking to would say "They're the ones who did that horrendous bird program"... And I'd be like "Which one? What are you talking about?"... And for a moment, I would think and realize "Oh them."

With S/B, I see potential. I do have a soft spot for them as well. I love their energy. They just seem like great, fun-loving people and I like that. I think they've been improving and are slowly creeping up the rankings. As much as I would like to see them in the 6-8 range, I just don't see it happening right now. The discipline is too competitive and I believe that they haven't reached their full potential yet. 8th or 9th will be attainable for them, if one of the top teams screw up badly and they skate perfectly... But other than that, 10th seems to be the most realistic outlook for them.

About the third-ranked Russian team, I feel like we shouldn't even be talking about it this time around. Like, there's no point at all. It's NOT happening. Russia will get TWO Olympic spots in Ice Dance for the first time ever. Everyone has got to start accepting that fact. The saddest part about it: The reigning Olympic medalists of the country cannot even qualify for the Olympics

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I absolutely LOVE Stepanova/Bukin and think they're SO under-rated. Them and Hubbell/Donahue are the future of ice dance, IMO.

Russia is making a push for the Olympics to have at least one medal contending ice dance team (certainly good enough to score well in the team event if they want to repeat gold). I'm not surprised to see a surge in the standings for B/S, but - as someone who's historically liked them - I can't get into their programs this season and enjoy Stepanova/Bukin way more. Although I understand Russia's decision to push B/S as their #1, there's no way S/B could break into the top 6 as long as B/S are in the way and that's kind of a bummer.

 

[Aqua Lady]

I absolutely LOVE Stepanova/Bukin and think they're SO under-rated. Them and Hubbell/Donahue are the future of ice dance, IMO.

YES Those are two of my favorite teams right now Love them and their skating!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

About the third-ranked Russian team, I feel like we shouldn't even be talking about it this time around. Like, there's no point at all. It's NOT happening. Russia will get TWO Olympic spots in Ice Dance for the first time ever. Everyone has got to start accepting that fact. The saddest part about it: The reigning Olympic medalists of the country cannot even qualify for the Olympics

Are you referring to Ilinykh/Katsalapov? Because they split up and are nowhere the calibre they were when they won bronze in Sochi, and their new partnerships are good but not as good as B/S and S/B.

I don't think all hope is lost for Russia getting 3 spots... I could envision B/S getting 4th at Worlds and S/B getting 9th -- it'll take some help, but it's not out of the question.