2016-2017 State of Canadian Figure Skating

[Mango]

Given how much adding a new quad has unsettled his FS, it makes total sense to start the process of integrating it into the SP asap.

That's assuming that he's doing the SP....Skate Canada hasn't yet posted the assignments for the World Team Trophy.

I'm wondering if they will want to give as many skaters as possible a chance. I

t would be great for Kevin to get another outing. And surely, but Kaetlyn and Gabby should skate....But with both Dumahel/Radford and Séguin/Bilodeau struggling with injuries, it looks like Ilyushechkina/Moscovitch may need to carry it for pairs. And Virtue/Moir may wish to take it on as a redo, as suggested...

TGee two ladies and two men along with one pairs team and one ice dance team skate both segments at World Team Trophy. Normally the highest ranked team/skater go unless they are injured. Weaver/Poje, for example, beat the French at this event in 2015. But our men and ladies didn't do well so we were 4th.

 

[TGee]

TGee two ladies and two men along with one pairs team and one ice dance team skate both segments at World Team Trophy. Normally the highest ranked team/skater go unless they are injured. Weaver/Poje, for example, beat the French at this event in 2015. But our men and ladies didn't do well so we were 4th.

So, the rules are different than for the Olympics. Countries don't have the choice which event they wish to send different skaters/teams to for the short vs long?

I guess it keeps down accommodation and transportation costs, but shouldn't it be at the federation's discretion?

 

[NanaPat]

So, the rules are different than for the Olympics. Countries don't have the choice which event they wish to send different skaters/teams to for the short vs long?

I guess it keeps down accommodation and transportation costs, but shouldn't it be at the federation's discretion?

Basically WTT is Japan's baby and they set the rules.

The US came up with their own team competition (can't remember the name, but I'm sure someone will supply it) held last year in Spokane, and it has a different set of rules.

The Olympic team event have yet another set of rules; I believe that they were heavily influenced by Russia, since it was first held in Russia, but have no evidence of that. The thing that I'd like to see changed about the Olympic event is to allow "substitutions" (different skater for short/long) in all 4 disciplines, rather than just 2.

 

[olayolay]

At the moment, if we had to split up each of the segments for the team event, I'd probably say:
Men: SP Kevin Reynolds, FP Patrick Chan
Women: SP Kaetlyn Osmond, FP Gabby Daleman
Pairs: SP I/M, FP D/R
Dance: SD W/P, FD V/M

That's still a really strong contingent.

For men we will likely win the long regardless of who Russia sends.
For women, as long as Russia saves Medvedeva for the long, we likely win the short.
Pairs is the real tossup here, and whoever Russia sends out for either program, the result is unpredictable.
We win both dance programs regardless.

Dance puts us in a really good spot when we're comparing ourselves to the Russians- pairs may be the deciding factor.

Team event only allows 2 substitutions, so two of those skaters/teams aren't going to get to compete.

 

[TGee]

Basically WTT is Japan's baby and they set the rules.

The US came up with their own team competition (can't remember the name, but I'm sure someone will supply it) held last year in Spokane, and it has a different set of rules.

The Olympic team event have yet another set of rules; I believe that they were heavily influenced by Russia, since it was first held in Russia, but have no evidence of that. The thing that I'd like to see changed about the Olympic event is to allow "substitutions" (different skater for short/long) in all 4 disciplines, rather than just 2.

Well this is an unfortunate situation....

Let's stop to think about this a moment....

Canada is seeded as most likely to win both WTT 2017 and the team event at Olympics 2018 based on this year's achievements at Worlds [and yes 'ice is slippery' so it's just the likelihood]. BUT here we are thinking, "Wait! What?" ISU and the IOC are trying to up the profile of the team event, but they run on different sets of rules.

If fans of Canadian skating are questioning this, and Canada's most likely to win, what does that say about it?

Not the way to build credibility for the event....even among those of us that feel strongly that it's long past time that a team medal is available in figure skating as it is in other acrobatic sports.

For anyone who wants to take a look, the qualifying rules and composition of teams for the WTT 2017 are found in the announcement. Skaters basically must show up if they are one of the top 2 singles placements for their country or top pairs/dance placement and rank in the top ten at Worlds or lose the right to compete or do exhibitions until the end of April, and be subject to other sanctions.

For Canada, this means that Skate Canada must assign the following [there must be provision for injury somewhere]....

Men: Patrick Chan, Kevin Reynolds

Ladies: Kaetlyn Osmond, Gabrielle Daleman

Pairs: Ilyushechkina/Moscovitch

Dance: Virtue/Moir

So, the only things within the federation's scope of actions is to choose which singles skaters do the SP vs FS...

Which makes Patrick's musings about test running the 4S in the SP a bit more risky....Why mess with a 100+ SP in this event, if he can't also do the FS?

 

[Alchamei]

Well this is an unfortunate situation....

Let's stop to think about this a moment....

Canada is seeded as most likely to win both WTT 2017 and the team event at Olympics 2018 based on this year's achievements at Worlds [and yes 'ice is slippery' so it's just the likelihood]. BUT here we are thinking, "Wait! What?" ISU and the IOC are trying to up the profile of the team event, but they run on different sets of rules.

If fans of Canadian skating are questioning this, and Canada's most likely to win, what does that say about it?

Not the way to build credibility for the event....even among those of us that feel strongly that it's long past time that a team medal is available in figure skating as it is in other acrobatic sports.

For anyone who wants to take a look, the qualifying rules and composition of teams for the WTT 2017 are found in the announcement. Skaters basically must show up if they are one of the top 2 singles placements for their country or top pairs/dance placement and rank in the top ten at Worlds or lose the right to compete or do exhibitions until the end of April, and be subject to other sanctions.

For Canada, this means that Skate Canada must assign the following [there must be provision for injury somewhere]....

Men: Patrick Chan, Kevin Reynolds

Ladies: Kaetlyn Osmond, Gabrielle Daleman

Pairs: Ilyushechkina/Moscovitch

Dance: Virtue/Moir

So, the only things within the federation's scope of actions is to choose which singles skaters do the SP vs FS...

Which makes Patrick's musings about test running the 4S in the SP a bit more risky....Why mess with a 100+ SP in this event, if he can't also do the FS?

No really? :shocked: Seriously this is horrible, everyone should be able to decide at their own will what they want to do, not be regulated by some fing idiotic rules by our dear ISU!

Seriously, a big reform is needed.

 

[siberia82]

Kevin's Post-LP Interview (Skating ISU): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZNEcZTjgSg

Patrick's Post-LP Interview (Skating ISU): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blJSW9PfCWw

 

[NanaPat]

For anyone who wants to take a look, the qualifying rules and composition of teams for the WTT 2017 are found in the announcement. Skaters basically must show up if they are one of the top 2 singles placements for their country or top pairs/dance placement and rank in the top ten at Worlds or lose the right to compete or do exhibitions until the end of April, and be subject to other sanctions.

For Canada, this means that Skate Canada must assign the following [there must be provision for injury somewhere]....

Men: Patrick Chan, Kevin Reynolds

Ladies: Kaetlyn Osmond, Gabrielle Daleman

Pairs: Ilyushechkina/Moscovitch

Dance: Virtue/Moir

So, the only things within the federation's scope of actions is to choose which singles skaters do the SP vs FS...

Which makes Patrick's musings about test running the 4S in the SP a bit more risky....Why mess with a 100+ SP in this event, if he can't also do the FS?

Read the announcement again. As I read it, the selection i according to World standings rather than World results. The top Canadian skaters in world standings are:

Men: Patrick Chan(4), Nam Nguyen (23) (followed by Kevin Reynolds (30))

Ladies: Kaetlyn Osmond(8), Gabrielle Daleman (11)

Pairs: Duhamel/Radford (1) (followed by Seguin/Bilodeau (9) and Ilyushechkina/Moscovitch (10)

Dance: Weaver/Poje (4) (followed by Gilles/Poirier (9) and Virtue/Moir (11))

Skaters are obliged to go if they are both top Canadians in world standings AND top 10 at worlds:

So who is obliged to go (or to sit out a period of time):

Patrick : yes
Nam: no; not top 10 in worlds
Kevin: no; not one of top 2

Katelyn: yes
Gaby: yes

D/R : yes (all others no: not top of standings)

W/P: yes (all others no: not top of standings)

I wouldn't be surprised if D/R decided to sit out because of his injury, and sit out the blackout period as well.

This seems really crazy. I would think the Japanese would rather have Kevin than Nam, as Kevin is very popular in Japan, and they/Skate Canada may have that choice, as Nam isn't on the must-go list. I'd think they would rather have V/M than W/P also, but W/P are the ones who are obliged to go!

Here's the relevant paragraph:

To be in compliance with Rule 136, paragraph 6, the following directive is issued by the ISU Council. Any Skater/Couple
from a Qualified ISU Member, who placed within the first ten (10) places at the ISU World Figure Skating
Championships 2017 and is ranked in the ISU World Standings among the best 2 Lady Single Skaters, best 2 Men Single
Skaters, the best Pair Skating couple and the best Ice Dance couple of his/her/their respective Qualified ISU Member, if
this Skater/Couple elects in advance of the ISU World Team Trophy not to participate in the ISU World Team Trophy
(for whatever reason), he/she/they will not be permitted to participate in any other competitions, shows, and exhibitions
from Monday noon (April 3, 2017) after the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2017, during the ISU World
Team Trophy, and until April 23, 2017.
In addition, depending on the circumstances, the concerned Skater/Couple and ISU Members may be subject to sanctions
in accordance with Rule 136, paragraph 6 of the General Regulations.

 

[4everchan]

Kevin's Post-LP Interview (Skating ISU): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZNEcZTjgSg

Patrick's Post-LP Interview (Skating ISU): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blJSW9PfCWw

thanks for sharing...nice interviews... charlie white just acquired my respect... he is a kind and fun interviewer and i like his short hair hehe

 

[NanaPat]

I believe at WTT, all skaters skate all segments. I had trouble finding a general reference, but did find the 2015 results, and it sure looks like everybody skated both a SP and LP.

These different team event formats are really confusing!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_ISU_World_Team_Trophy_in_Figure_Skating

 

[4everchan]

Regarding the WTT : Thanks Nanapat for sharing the rules.

Duhamel just said that if they recover well enough, they want to redeem their season and go to WTT.

TGee : I am of the same opinion as you are : I would like the format of WTT and WTC to be the same as the team event for the Olympics... However, as it is so late into the season, the respective organizers have decided to create a "fun" experience for figure skating fans.

In that sense, since WTT is really a Japanese events, and knowing how poorly they do in pairs and dance, they have catered towards the stars of single skating. The fans in Japan, seem to love the event and that's what matters I guess.

For WTC, the American organizers had the comical idea to allow the public to vote for an extra skater to compete ... So in each team, the top in world standings were granted a spot (Nam went for Canada) and then people could vote in for another skater....

so once again, the organizers were trying to make this a popular success event rather than a "figure skating competition"

I used to dislike both events... but last year, when Weapo skated admirably there and had the best FD score after a disastrous world event, I thought, okay, for the skaters, it has its value... it does give them a chance to skate again.... Everyone thought weapo were done with a 5th place a worlds last year... and if I agree that judges didn't really favour them much this year, they still ended up a few tenths away from bronze... many people thought that they would sink down to 7 or further when Bobrova Soloviev and VIrtue Moir would rejoin the roster...

anyways, I am happy that Weapo are ahead in world standings again as I think that since their season started too late, it gives them the chance to skate their programs once more now that they are ready. They were so much better at worlds than earlier....

Finally re WTT : there is significant prize money for these athletes so anything that can help pay for their crazy training is welcome!!!

 

[TGee]

Read the announcement again. As I read it, the selection i according to World standings rather than World results. The top Canadian skaters in world standings are:

Men: Patrick Chan(4), Nam Nguyen (23) (followed by Kevin Reynolds (30))

Ladies: Kaetlyn Osmond(8), Gabrielle Daleman (11)

Pairs: Duhamel/Radford (1) (followed by Seguin/Bilodeau (9) and Ilyushechkina/Moscovitch (10)

Dance: Weaver/Poje (4) (followed by Gilles/Poirier (9) and Virtue/Moir (11))

Skaters are obliged to go if they are both top Canadians in world standings AND top 10 at worlds:

So who is obliged to go (or to sit out a period of time):

Patrick : yes
Nam: no; not top 10 in worlds
Kevin: no; not one of top 2

Katelyn: yes
Gaby: yes

D/R : yes (all others no: not top of standings)

W/P: yes (all others no: not top of standings)

I wouldn't be surprised if D/R decided to sit out because of his injury, and sit out the blackout period as well.

This seems really crazy. I would think the Japanese would rather have Kevin than Nam, as Kevin is very popular in Japan, and they/Skate Canada may have that choice, as Nam isn't on the must-go list. I'd think they would rather have V/M than W/P also, but W/P are the ones who are obliged to go!

Here's the relevant paragraph:

Yup, I see it....World Ranking it is...... and those who were out for a season or a championship for whatever reason get big goose-eggs for those and down-ranked.... [Reynolds, Virtue/Moir]

This is even stranger than I had realized

....I can see how it makes sense to a singles freeskate oriented federation like Japan that would like to bring out the long term stars, but C'MON

So, W/P get a chance to shine again....

But pairs will be an issue....S/B are second in the world rankings for Canada...I/M are below them, despite S/B's absence from Worlds last year since they get goose-eggs for the GP season in 2014-2015 when they had just formed as a team.

So, for Canada to send it's top uninjured pair, both D/R and S/B will need to decide to sit out competitions and exhibitions to recover......

Mike Slipchuk, Skate Canada's high performance director, will be having some interesting conversations in the coming week.....

 

[Mango]

The tough rules of WTT have been discussed for a while now and indeed, JSF has made it so that top stars have to attend. But then, the atmosphere of this event is a fun one. Skaters have props and sing and dance in the kiss and cry. It's basically a fun competition with team mates that kind of has similarities to the Olympic team event and gives the skaters a chance to make money while saying good bye to their programs. Though seeing as its by World rankings then V/M won't even be there. They should really have two ice dance teams.

The only issue about skaters sitting out until the end of April is Stars on Ice starts in Halifax April 28 and goes to Ottawa April 30th.

 

[TGee]

Thing is, the ISU has stated that its rationale for starting the team events - both Worlds and Olympics - was to incent federations to field a full set of disciplines.

The model that the ISU has worked out with the IOC for the Olympics seems to be in line with this. It's encouraging smaller federations and federations that have strength in one or two disciplines to round out.

I don't see either the Japanese or American models for the WTT are in line with this.

And a fun World event may be good for television in Japan, but is it really doing much to build the sport or the credibility of the event elsewhere.

In terms of Canada, my sense that the ISU position on federations being well rounded has resonated. It has been a factor, it seems, in bringing attention to past deficiencies in our development of female skaters for the ISU Ladies' events, and has led to Skate Canada pushing for more sections to develop pairs.

 

[siberia82]

Was anyone else pleasantly surprised that Roman and Conrad were interviewed during this afternoon's CBC broadcast of the Worlds Exhibition Gala? Is this the first time the network brought in junior-level skaters to the studio during a senior-level event?

 

[TGee]

As I've been roaming through the positive energy for Canadian skaters in the fan fests over the past few days, I've started to think of my own wish list of suggestions for Canadian skaters for next year....

But...not wanting to take anything from that positive energy, and thinking that this is the time that skaters and coaches will sit back and mull things over [even those who still have a couple more skates at WTT], I'm wondering if it would be okay to start musing here....

For example, my thoughts for Kevin Reynolds...who is already talking about his plan forward to maintain his upward trend so I feel less guilty about making suggestions when the book is barely closed on Worlds...

- really commit to the plan to improve PCS, as he's mentioned in interviews, especially SS....it may improve his jumps and spin elements too [according to Toller Cranston's wisdom]
......spend at least a day a week this spring with the ice dancers at Champs; get to a ballet/dance instructor at least 3 times a week; try taking a mime or physical acting workshop; consider heading to Montreal to spend a couple of weeks with Marie-France and Patrice.
......bring back ACDC for the SP...the EX version was so great, that it deserves to come back as a solid competition program with that shows how Kevin can express and perform
......try someone new for the FS, maybe Shae Lynne who did the ACDC short/EX, or someone else who can bring out Kevin's expression
.....perhaps get some advice from the specialist who helped Kaetlyn figure out how to make her programs connect with and draw in the audience in the opening seconds to give her energy
.....go somewhere else for his competition costumes...the ones he has used have a 'home made' look on camera in the words of one real fashion expert [Nick Verros].....perhaps while he is in Montreal he can stop into Xpressions, and maybe do some modelling too -- he can reach an entire market their Montreal skaters wont.

- keep pushing up the tech score
.....keep working on the URs...try to get some time with Elvis Stokjo to keep the 3A and quads sharp....don't be shy to reach out to other coaching voices to help see things in a different way
.....as SS improve, work on jumping from increasing speed...just because one can jump a triple from about a dead stop doesn't mean one should do so often [not a snark..the combo he pulled off from nothing at the end of the Sochi team event FS still sticks in my mind]
.....look at opportunities to increase GOE with bullet points such as difficult entries, variations....goes in hand with improving PCS
.....find an expert spin coach ....levels and centring can go up
.

 

[TGee]

Was anyone else pleasantly surprised that Roman and Conrad were interviewed during this afternoon's CBC broadcast of the Worlds Exhibition Gala? Is this the first time the network brought in junior-level skaters to the studio during a senior-level event?

Uhm, I've been struggling with a stuttering stream and missed this, but I have a recollection of this happening before.

CBC has been increasing the profile of juniors over the past couple of years. Recall my mum calling to say she'd watched Junior Worlds a couple of years back and found herself pleased by the level of competition and how much she enjoyed it. It's a great way to build interest and audience, especially when some only compete as seniors for one quadrennial.

And have to say, after some slips out the gate last weekend, CBC has confirmed my belief that they are the better network for figure skating coverage in Canada.....

....Hope CBC can get together a better bid for CTNSC and SCI when next Skate Canada is offering rights.

 

[ancientpeas]

As I've been roaming through the positive energy for Canadian skaters in the fan fests over the past few days, I've started to think of my own wish list of suggestions for Canadian skaters for next year....

But...not wanting to take anything from that positive energy, and thinking that this is the time that skaters and coaches will sit back and mull things over [even those who still have a couple more skates at WTT], I'm wondering if it would be okay to start musing here....

For example, my thoughts for Kevin Reynolds...who is already talking about his plan forward to maintain his upward trend so I feel less guilty about making suggestions when the book is barely closed on Worlds...

- really commit to the plan to improve PCS, as he's mentioned in interviews, especially SS....it may improve his jumps and spin elements too [according to Toller Cranston's wisdom]
......spend at least a day a week this spring with the ice dancers at Champs; get to a ballet/dance instructor at least 3 times a week; try taking a mime or physical acting workshop; consider heading to Montreal to spend a couple of weeks with Marie-France and Patrice.
......bring back ACDC for the SP...the EX version was so great, that it deserves to come back as a solid competition program with that shows how Kevin can express and perform
......try someone new for the FS, maybe Shae Lynne who did the ACDC short/EX, or someone else who can bring out Kevin's expression
.....perhaps get some advice from the specialist who helped Kaetlyn figure out how to make her programs connect with and draw in the audience in the opening seconds to give her energy
.....go somewhere else for his competition costumes...the ones he has used have a 'home made' look on camera in the words of one real fashion expert [Nick Verros].....perhaps while he is in Montreal he can stop into Xpressions, and maybe do some modelling too -- he can reach an entire market their Montreal skaters wont.

- keep pushing up the tech score
.....keep working on the URs...try to get some time with Elvis Stokjo to keep the 3A and quads sharp....don't be shy to reach out to other coaching voices to help see things in a different way
.....as SS improve, work on jumping from increasing speed...just because one can jump a triple from about a dead stop doesn't mean one should do so often [not a snark..the combo he pulled off from nothing at the end of the Sochi team event FS still sticks in my mind]
.....look at opportunities to increase GOE with bullet points such as difficult entries, variations....goes in hand with improving PCS
.....find an expert spin coach ....levels and centring can go up
.

You have given so much thought to this that I'm afraid to offer my suggestion for Kevin. That he finally resolve the "am I a man or am I a muppet?" Question. Cause seriously, someone needs to skate to this music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb3tHsCLWsI and who better than Kevin! It's an oscar winning song for crying out loud and from an OST so why hasn't anyone skated to it???? It fits nearly all the criteria for a warhorse. Maybe we can get Josh Groban to do a cover. It's nearly the perfect length for a short.

"If I'm a muppet I'm a very manly muppet.."

 

[4everchan]

Thing is, the ISU has stated that its rationale for starting the team events - both Worlds and Olympics - was to incent federations to field a full set of disciplines.

The model that the ISU has worked out with the IOC for the Olympics seems to be in line with this. It's encouraging smaller federations and federations that have strength in one or two disciplines to round out.

I don't see either the Japanese or American models for the WTT are in line with this.

And a fun World event may be good for television in Japan, but is it really doing much to build the sport or the credibility of the event elsewhere.

In terms of Canada, my sense that the ISU position on federations being well rounded has resonated. It has been a factor, it seems, in bringing attention to past deficiencies in our development of female skaters for the ISU Ladies' events, and has led to Skate Canada pushing for more sections to develop pairs.

well then, they should do worlds over the period of two weeks every year, where the team event would be contested first, to follow exactly the model of the olympics ) but i can see why that's never going to happen

I don't mind that only one dance or one pair team is going to WTT... it's like the substitutions have just been made... However, they could score things differently so that other countries than the ones whose strength is singles can win

 

[ice coverage]

.... If fans of Canadian skating are questioning this, and Canada's most likely to win, what does that say about it? ...

... TGee : I am of the same opinion as you are : I would like the format of WTT and WTC to be the same as the team event for the Olympics...

The tough rules of WTT have been discussed for a while now and indeed, JSF has made it so that top stars have to attend. But then, the atmosphere of this event is a fun one. Skaters have props and sing and dance in the kiss and cry. It's basically a fun competition with team mates that kind of has similarities to the Olympic team event and gives the skaters a chance to make money while saying good bye to their programs. Though seeing as its by World rankings then V/M won't even be there. They should really have two ice dance teams.

The only issue about skaters sitting out until the end of April is Stars on Ice starts in Halifax April 28 and goes to Ottawa April 30th.

A few bits re the various team competitions:

As Mango says, the format and rules of WTT have been much discussed/debated for years -- and certainly also by non-Canadian fans (such as yours truly).

To be super-precise, the WTT Announcement mentions ISU World *Standings* for individual skaters.

(As opposed to ISU Season's World Rankings, in which V/M are #1. Congratulations to Tessa and Scott on their third world title .)​

For the skaters subject to the WTT-related ban on shows, the ban ends on Apr 23 -- so Canadian SOI is *not* affected.

(Whereas the first U.S. SOI show is before Apr 23.)​

Because you are a stickler for accuracy, 4everchan:

The correct name of the U.S.-hosted team comp is Team Challenge Cup, and thus the correct initials are TCC.​

Will leave it there for now, although I have a different perspective (unrelated to being non-Canadian) on many comments in this thread about team comps.