2016 Skate Canada Men's LP

[Li'Kitsu]

Obviously not. Because if you apply that logic then the fans of the person will be gone as soon as the skater retires. And figure skating as a sport has gained nothing. Simple as that.

Huh? Yes sure, because FS had more spectators while that skater was active. Just because something doesn't last, doesn't mean it didn't help/gained the sport anything while it did. Weird logic.

 

[OS]

Chan has very impressive technical skills but imho still lacks charisma, showmanship, personality, pizazz, interpretation. Boring and bland. There's no "X Factor" like there is with YUZU.

Uhh... I beg to differ. May be that depends on your age and maturity level.

Patrick's fan wouldn't care just about the so called 'X factor' but they are likely to care about the 'A - Z Factor'. There are people like Coca Cola, and there are people who likes fine wine.

I personally have room for both Michael Jackson and Frank Sinatra (+ beatles, elvis presley). Unfortunately Yuzu's interpretation and showmanship is just not on peak on this competition (stamina and energy. He is still recovering) The SP, FS program has potential and can only improve but I was expecting more to be honest. Not sure of the edit, there seems missing a strong consistent strong concept away from just a jump drill. I am really iffy about the SP costumes, thought looks like have been designed by a Shojo comic reader, stepped straight out of the fantasy world of girl comics.

Patrick's PCS is well deserved on this one so is their gap. The choreography infused with the meditative contemplative music well and showcased a masterful display of skating skills where less can be more and the quality of understatement has the mark of a master. (Botched jump issues aside)

 

[Rissa]

People want to complain about Patrick and Yuzuru but I want to lament about Misha. I found him better than Michal and Daniel Samohin, it sucked to go first in the SP but he got a standing ovation for the LP, he did any amazing job and I was on my feet. His speed needs work but he's such a wonderful performer, I'm so glad I got to see him live

I found Misha boring, to be honest. I don't enjoy his LP at all. But I'm glad others do because I have great love for Misha overall and his SP makes up for the LP.

 

[Interspectator]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BMLKUQxhOEw/?taken-by=michlmint
For diffusing the tension, here is a clip of Yuzu and Chan chatting happily before the medals ceremony

 

[Rissa]

Note on Mura, he said that he had sprained his ankle in the 6min warmup. No wonder all his landings looked so bad. Mura has a history of ankle injuries and sprains. Poor guy.

Oh, that explains a lot.

 

[sallycinnamon]

Congratulations to Patrick, Yuzuru and Kevin. I find Patrick's skating incredibly beautiful, but this program just lacks sparks to me, maybe later in the season it will grow on me, but I'm not sure.

Congratulations to Yuzu for winning the LP, I am sure if he didn't make that much mistakes in the SP then he would have won easily. It seemed to me that he got quite low GOEs. The LP is really starting to grow on me, first I heard the music and watched the program I didn't like it that much, but now it is way better. I think Hanyu doesn't want to reach his top form early this season - not like he did last year - so I hope that he will develop competition by competition.

Kevin did a great job at his first GP event since NHK 2012. Well done, his quirky LP is really enjoyable.

I also liked Brezina's LP and Misha Ge's wonderful and beautifully performed Nutcracker.

 

[ancientpeas]

Thanks for the info on Mura. I was really, really sad for him last night.

I don't think we should say that just because some people only like one skater (any skater) that they shouldn't go to shows or comment on other skaters. When I was a girl my father liked one FS team- Torvil and Dean. He got me to watch the 84 games with him and I can say they were the only ones I cared about then. By 88 I was a solid fan of all four disciplines and had favourites all over the place G/G, Katerina Witt, Brian Orser and Klimova/P and Tracy Wilson and Rob McCall (R.I.P). I know there were others but I'm trying to make a point: If even a third of Yuzu's fans who only like him discover other things to like about FS and hang around after he leaves then the FS community is better for it. I don't understand only rooting for FS from your country but if that's your preference then fine.

I stand by what I said earlier: If the competition was just the Free Skate I would have given it to Hanyu but he really did bury himself in the short. Patrick needs to stop being so tentative. He did that in Boston too. All those doubles. I was happy for Kevin because he's had such a rough go of it and I like redemption stories. My favourite performances were actually from earlier in the night: Brezina and Misha Ge.

How many people like Hanyu and Patrick? I do. I also like Fernandez and Shoma and Jason Brown and many others.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Only 91 PCS? He wuzrobbed. Such wonderful unmatched skating, interpretation, and performance deserve much higher marks.

I think it deserves higher too, but I'm glad it was kept lower because then people will say he would have won only due to inflation.

He could have had PCS as low as Hanyu's (which given their skating quality and choreography and level of performance last night would have been ridiculous).and still won, thanks to his SP lead.

 

[HanDomi]

I think it deserves higher too, but I'm glad it was kept lower because then people will say he would have won only due to inflation.

He could have had PCS as low as Hanyu's (which given their skating quality and choreography and level of performance last night would have been ridiculous).and still won, thanks to his SP lead.

Rather thanks to low balled GOEs for Hanyu.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Honestly, same story as last year. People always focus on the PCS, but there's just as much weirdness going on with the GOE.
People can defend Chans GOE all they want, thing is, Yuzu also has qualities that Patrick doesn't, but didn't get rewarded for it here - again, like last season. Afterwards, we never saw Patrick getting more GOE rewards than Yuzu all season. So I don't think it's worth paying this so much mind here (unless for amusement reasons )

It actually is seriously hilarious. When you look at the scores by judges you get to see gems like this one:
GOE Yuzu +14, Patrick +23

That particular judge gave the following scores
Hanyu 3A+1Lo+3S 0 GOE and 4S 0 GOE and 4T 0 GOE

Chan 3A(hand)+2T 0 GOE and 2Lz+2T+1Lo 2 GOE and 3T (popped 4T) 3 GOE

 

[ancientpeas]

I actually think there should be a standard for the GOE's. Hands down should get you a negative -1 or -2. Two footed landing should always get a negative as well as underrotations and flutzs. If the jump is wrong then how can you give it a positive grade?

I also think 3s should be saved for something truly special: S/M triple twist, Han's 3Axle (when he lands it) or a really great footwork series from any of our masters at footwork. I think the GOE is something like the artistic impression marks of old. Used to hold up favourites. I've seen things that should never have a positive GOE get them and visa versa. I think there needs to be rules because otherwise some judges just some to throw them around willy nilly.

 

[Yatagarasu]

I think it deserves higher too, but I'm glad it was kept lower because then people will say he would have won only due to inflation.
.

He won due to over-inflation, and under-scoring of Hanyu. It is so absolutely glorious to open up those judges scores and see what GOEs both of them got. Today, I'm finding it the best comedy I have seen in a while! And I am not even being sarcastic here, it's actually phenomenally funny but I guess it helps I know it won't repeat outside of this competition.

 

[DiamondDust]

It actually is seriously hilarious. When you look at the scores by judges you get to see gems like this one:
GOE Yuzu +14, Patrick +23

That particular judge gave the following scores
Hanyu 3A+1Lo+3S 0 GOE and 4S 0 GOE and 4T 0 GOE

Chan 3A(hand)+2T 0 GOE and 2Lz+2T+1Lo 2 GOE and 3T (popped 4T) 3 GOE

There are rules on giving GOE's right? I'm surprised with this GOE's above :hslap: Some judges are... weird...

 

[Li'Kitsu]

It actually is seriously hilarious. When you look at the scores by judges you get to see gems like this one:
GOE Yuzu +14, Patrick +23

That particular judge gave the following scores
Hanyu 3A+1Lo+3S 0 GOE and 4S 0 GOE and 4T 0 GOE

Chan 3A(hand)+2T 0 GOE and 2Lz+2T+1Lo 2 GOE and 3T (popped 4T) 3 GOE

I'm for example fine with Yuzu's 4T getting 0 GOE... but +0GOE for Yuzu's 4S and then no negative for Patricks hand down 3A?

I need to find some of those judges when I'm at the next live event - I'm sure that one just came drunk from a bar. Might visit him afterwards for a drink again and ask him/her all the questions

 

[MaiKatze]

Thanks for the info on Mura. I was really, really sad for him last night.

I don't think we should say that just because some people only like one skater (any skater) that they shouldn't go to shows or comment on other skaters. When I was a girl my father liked one FS team- Torvil and Dean. He got me to watch the 84 games with him and I can say they were the only ones I cared about then. By 88 I was a solid fan of all four disciplines and had favourites all over the place G/G, Katerina Witt, Brian Orser and Klimova/P and Tracy Wilson and Rob McCall (R.I.P). I know there were others but I'm trying to make a point: If even a third of Yuzu's fans who only like him discover other things to like about FS and hang around after he leaves then the FS community is better for it. I don't understand only rooting for FS from your country but if that's your preference then fine.

I stand by what I said earlier: If the competition was just the Free Skate I would have given it to Hanyu but he really did bury himself in the short. Patrick needs to stop being so tentative. He did that in Boston too. All those doubles. I was happy for Kevin because he's had such a rough go of it and I like redemption stories. My favourite performances were actually from earlier in the night: Brezina and Misha Ge.

How many people like Hanyu and Patrick? I do. I also like Fernandez and Shoma and Jason Brown and many others.

I agree. If you start to like Yuzuru or any skater and then realize wow, an exciting sport I'd like to see more and get interested in other skaters and disciplines, then well, great for the sport. But that wasn't the people I was talking about. Either way, I think I'm unable or failed to really put my point across. *hangsheadinshame* I blame it on english not being my first language.

 

[ancientpeas]

Hey, I'm impressed by anyone who is fluent in more than one language. I'm barely fluent in English and it's my only option. (I do speak some, very halting french-but not enough to write on a forum board in it). Constantly impressed by non native English speakers ability to communicate in English.

 

[ks777]

It actually is seriously hilarious. When you look at the scores by judges you get to see gems like this one:
GOE Yuzu +14, Patrick +23

That particular judge gave the following scores
Hanyu 3A+1Lo+3S 0 GOE and 4S 0 GOE and 4T 0 GOE

Chan 3A(hand)+2T 0 GOE and 2Lz+2T+1Lo 2 GOE and 3T (popped 4T) 3 GOE

LOL I thought it was a Canadian judge but turned out it was a Chinese judge... hmmm.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

He won due to over-inflation, and under-scoring of Hanyu. It is so absolutely glorious to open up those judges scores and see what GOEs both of them got. Today, I'm finding it the best comedy I have seen in a while! And I am not even being sarcastic here, it's actually phenomenally funny but I guess it helps I know it won't repeat outside of this competition.

You could compare protocols and see where Hanyu was also overscored on GOE in some cases - his 3S in the SP got 0/-1 GOE, his double salchow combo got plenty of +1.

And over inflation of Chan? How about overinflated scores of Hanyu - 79 points (44 PCS) for an SP with 1 successful jumping pass?

Hanyu beat Chan by 7 points in the FS, which was reasonable given the errors Hanyu made. And that wasn't enough to overcome the SP disaster. The GOE was pretty fair -- I don't think Hanyu's triple axels were as good as they can be, and people seem to think they deserve +3s across the board. Chan didn't exactly get huge GOE himself (see the spins and footwork sequences which had lower GOE than he usually gets too).

 

[qwertyskates]

Well... I think Shoma is quite special in all those judges' eyes. Don't know why... (・・)

Also replying to BoP about Brezina, and everyone who's fed up with discussing differing views of PCS.

I'm going to use logic to support my arguments, so don't get mad but reply with calm logic, ok?:yes:

First, it is clear that TES and PCS are 2 completely different categories and so poor TES should not affect PCS, which are awarded based on Performance, Transitions, Choreography, Skating Skills, etc..an attempt to give quantifiable values to a very subjective criteria for Artistry judgment.

This is due to past controversies under the 6 pt system where there were allegations of fraud and favouritism. This marred the sport and CoP attempts to make the scoring more transparent, etc. etc.

PCS used to be awarded based on seniority as well - your PCS goes up as you progress and advance your reputation as a better, more brilliant skater skating to increasingly sophisticated and difficult programs. It allows room for growth as skaters can max out on physical limitations, especially TES-heavy jumps.

So stripping away the jumps, I'd say that Brezina has a smoother, more complex FS with more choreography than Shoma's, especially because Shoma's FS has a lot of 2-footed skating of cross-overs and glides. The 2nd half, especially, was unbearable for me, as unbearable as any other "empty" programs with mostly jumps by any other skater. I said the same about Ashley's Moulin Rouge, for the record.

It's not enough to opine that Shoma is "special" to explain a huge 10 pt PCS difference between him and Brezina. It's back to the bad old days - I like him, I like his style, therefore that's enough to ensure he gets "special" treatment.

A skater's skate is special, therefore deserving of higher PCS. How is it "special"? Because of TR, CH, PE, etc....

Likewise, i do think Patrick deserves slightly higher PCS here (it's 3 pts), and lower TES, compared to Hanyu, because despite the fall and pops, his skating was very smooth, deep and beautiful, though for me not as good as last season's Chopin, 4 Seasons, Rachmaninov, etc.

I also feel that even without the crazy huge TES, Seimei was a superior performance with a lot more packed in than this season's FS of Hanyu's.

However, I really don't think that if we were to place Shoma's SA FS here, he deserves higher PCS than Hanyu or Patrick. :noshake: He may well win because of his TES, and deservedly so.

Please don't just say it's special, but explain HOW it is so special in comparison to the two veterans'.

Personally, speaking for myself, I maintain a policy of "open-door", I might not like Shoma/Jason/Satoko/Ashley's programs and skating today but will definitely change my mind when my own preferences and criteria are met and fulfilled. Satoko is growing on me, but she's a long way from Mao, imho. I used to really dislike old Jason's programs like Juke (but liking Prince and liking him as a really nice guy off rink) but this SA really changed my view of him and I have tons of admiration for Jason now.

 

[HanDomi]

Actually re watching now in HD slowmo of Patrick's 4S it was under rotated


if anyone wants to watch super quality here is recording from polish tv
http://sport.tvp.pl/27539379/grand-prix-w-lyzwiarstwie-figurowym-solisci-relacja


Also in commentator view quad loop may be the hardest of quads besides axel, because of it specific take off, for lutz and flip you have toe pick assist, for salchow you can at least push with leg, but for loop it's mighty hard to pull up and get 4 rotations