2016 Team Challenge Cup - Gen Info/Pre-chat

[CaroLiza_fan]

Well, as far as I understood the rules, the team for any discipline must contain skaters from at least two different countries. So, for instance, European ladies could only contain, tops, two Russian ladies. Also, two of the members will be selected from the top ranking in World standings - which, currently, apparently for European ladies were Liza and Roberta (from two different countries). Then if any of those decline the invitation, they will go further down the list, and so on. And the third member will be chosen by a fan vote from participants at Worlds - from five nominees selected, I think, by each team captain.

Note: It's been a while since I read the rules, and I tend to get muddled anyway, so, please, if I've made a hash of things - corrections welcome!

Yep, that 2 of the skaters from the team were to be the top 2 from that continent in the World Standings, and that the third was to be the choice of the team captain (Christopher Dean, isn't it), is my understanding as well.

Although, I am amazed that the skaters currently holding those positions for Europe in Ladies are Liza and Roberta!

Like, OK, so Liza had an unbelievable season last year, but I thought that the awful season she was having this year would have had it's toll on her position in the Standings.

And, as for Roberta, whilst she has been doing VERY well on the international scene since messing up at Nationals last season, I would have thought that what Zhenya had been doing this season in Seniors would have put her ahead of Roberta! :shocked:

Just shows that I should be paying closer attention to the World Standings in between competitions, rather than only looking at them when making predictions!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Sorry, just re-read LRK's comment and realised that I had picked something up wrong from the last time I looked at the rules.

So, it's the public that are choosing the third member, from a choice selected by the team captain?!

No, I don't like that. That'll just make it into a popularity contest. And the most popular skaters are not always the best skaters.

No, let the captain select the third member. They've been there, and know what is needed.

The more I find out about this TCC, the less I like it!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[LRK]

Yep, that 2 of the skaters from the team were to be the top 2 from that continent in the World Standings, and that the third was to be the choice of the team captain (Christopher Dean, isn't it), is my understanding as well.

Although, I am amazed that the skaters currently holding those positions for Europe in Ladies are Liza and Roberta!

Like, OK, so Liza had an unbelievable season last year, but I thought that the awful season she was having this year would have had it's toll on her position in the Standings.

And, as for Roberta, whilst she has been doing VERY well on the international scene since messing up at Nationals last season, I would have thought that what Zhenya had been doing this season in Seniors would have put her ahead of Roberta! :shocked:

Just shows that I should be paying closer attention to the World Standings in between competitions, rather than only looking at them when making predictions!

CaroLiza_fan

The two different countries thing, again, CaroLiza_fan - Roberta is presumably the top-ranked non-Russian European.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

The two different countries thing, again, CaroLiza_fan - Roberta is presumably the top-ranked non-Russian European.

Ah, I see what you mean now. I thought you were talking about the Top 2 full stop.

Sorry, we were just looking at it from different angles.

By the way, I have already posted a correction to a mistake I made in the post you quoted. It can be found at the bottom of the previous page.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

The idea of a thread devoted to the contrast btwn TCC and WTT had not occurred to me, and I do not plan to start one.
(If you are thinking of what I mentioned about being a stickler in another thread about TCC, I meant the Stupid Questions thread. Someone over there happened to make a reference to "WTT," although the context indicated that TCC was the event in mind, and I replied accordingly.)

BTW, as mentioned in this post, a second TCC thread already exists -- in the competition subforum. It's a general thread for TCC.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?57981-2016-Team-Challenge-Cup​

Oops. Sorry. Somebody suggested doing a thread comparing and contrasting the team competitions, and I thought it was you. :

Apologies to both you, and to whoever it actually was that suggested it!

But, I do think it would be a good idea! (Perhaps as a table)

CaroLiza_fan

 

[LRK]

Ah, I see what you mean now. I thought you were talking about the Top 2 full stop.

Sorry, we were just looking at it from different angles.

By the way, I have already posted a correction to a mistake I made in the post you quoted. It can be found at the bottom of the previous page.

CaroLiza_fan

It's a bit... peculiar. I mean, looking at the pairs for Asia for example, really makes one realise just how weak Asia is in the discipline barring China - hopefully they will be able to develop good pairs in other countries as well (or are developing - I don't follow juniors so maybe there are some up-and-coming promising pairs there.) And yes, I've not made up my mind what I think of the fan vote thing, either. We'll have to see how this all pans out I suppose. All this is so new, that there may be teething problems, and they may have adjustments to make to the format for possible future events.

But, I do like the notion of having a more light, fun, stress-free event to cap off the skating season, so I'm glad there is something like this being offered.

 

[ice coverage]

... And the third member will be chosen by a fan vote from participants at Worlds - from five nominees selected, I think, by each team captain.

Note: It's been a while since I read the rules, and I tend to get muddled anyway, so, please, if I've made a hash of things - corrections welcome!

The exact language is "up to five" nominees -- which is a non-trivial distinction in how the nominations and voting could unfold.

---

... That'll just make it into a popularity contest. ...

For better or worse: the popularity contest obviously is intentional -- with the goal of increasing fan interest in the event, I assume. (And perhaps a secondary goal of establishing another difference btwn TCC and WTT.)
Given the many GS discussions of how to make the sport more fan-friendly, the idea of fan voting for a small number of skaters (two of ten entries per team) for TCC does not bother me.

Only two of three scores from the Men on each TCC team count toward the Team results. Same for the Ladies.
So one could argue that it will not really hurt a team if the man or lady chosen by fan voting turns out to be a weak link in terms of scores.

ETA (on Jan 4):

To be precise, only two of the three FS scores from the Men on each TCC count toward the determination of the overall Team champion (for which SPs do not count). Same for the Ladies.
The SP scores of the third Man and third Lady on each team will play a role in the Singles Team SP results.​

---

Concerning the team captain of Tean Asia, if they are really determined to find an OGM to be the the Captain, the most possible cases would be either Shizuka or Yuna. If not, Shen or Zhao ...

Shen and Zhao are OGMs too .

 

[LRK]

The exact language is "up to five" nominees -- which is a non-trivial distinction in how the nominations and voting could unfold.

Ah, thank you - yes, I agree, that makes a difference; your correction much appreciated.

 

[[email protected]]

The exact language is "up to five" nominees -- which is a non-trivial distinction in how the nominations and voting could unfold.

So, it means that whoever the captain is can put for a vote only Medvedeva and Radionova skipping popular but less promising score wise Yulia, Adelina, and Caro? That addition would make some sense to still unconventional to put it mildly European team of Liza and Roberta.

For me ladies are missing one tournament where brought together top 24 senior and junior skaters would compete with one another. GPF was good but there were just 6 of them. Russian nationals were extraordinary. But adding to top 10 Russians Mao, Caro, Gracy, Ashley, Satoko, Polina, Karen, Wakaba, Marin, Rika, Zijun, Gabrielle, Kaetlyn, Alaine, and may be a couple more like Roberta and Joshi would make a competition to die for.

 

[Mathman]

So, it means that whoever the captain is can put for a vote only Medvedeva and Radionova skipping popular but less promising score wise Yulia, Adelina, and Caro? That addition would make some sense to still unconventional to put it mildly European team of Liza and Roberta.

The European captain is Christopher Dean.

That is an interesting point. It is not clear exactly who will be interested enough to vote, but if it is mostly Americans who are casual fans, Carolina is probably the best known of that group. Plus there is some sympathy for her because of the ban.

 

[Crossover]

I think your first question is about whether TCC scores will count for ISU SBs and PBs. I don't know whether it was previously raised on GS. In any case, it was not addressed in the TCC Announcement, AFAIK.

Your second question has been discussed on GS, so my brief answer here is that it is apparent from the Announcement that skaters are free to decline TCC invitations.

Thank you for the answer. Yes, I meant the possibility of whether TCC scores can be treated like WTT's. The matter seems still uncertain.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Another full page ad in the paper a few days ago and the bill boards are still up...TV ads have slacked off.......

$600,000 is a lot of money! But when I win the lotto Wednesday, I will have my own event and you are all invited for free! My private jet will pick you up....
http://usfigureskating.org/Story.asp?id=51725&type=media

 

[ice coverage]

Paris Stephens / Matthew Dodds could be a candidate as the second Asian pair team, too.

Invitations were supposed to go out on January 1st. Has it been announced who was invited. (In any case, we can figure it out from the ISU rankings, right?)

By the way, I am pretty sure that the ISU counts Australia as being in with Asia.

Esited to add: No wait. I am not sure about that.

Just noticed a Dec 8 USFS graphic that really does not bode well for Australia. [Sorry, karne. ]

https://www.facebook.com/usfiguresk...18026341/10153306062021342/?type=3&permPage=1​

Again, I'm talking about a FB post directly from USFS itself (as opposed to the third-party blog previously cited on GS).

US Figure Skating's own graphic projected that the second pair to be invited for Team Asia will be from North Korea -- although the Australians were higher in the World Standings at the time (and they still are).
Makes it harder to hold out hope that Aussies will be eligible for Team Asia.

(Lest anyone wonder, for TCC invitations, the Japanese pair Sumire SUTO / Francis BOUDREAU AUDET do not count, b/c they earned their world standings points after Jan 1. http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wspairs.htm)

On Jan 6, the TCC FB page claimed that skaters will be announced "soon" ...

https://www.facebook.com/spokane2016/posts/10153902616657904​

 

[karne]

What a frigging joke. Some team with practically no international experience and a lower World ranking getting precedence over a team with international experience and a higher world ranking because, what, the ISU just think no-one will care if Team Australia is left out in the cold?

:angry1:

 

[jersey1302]

So.. is this event the new world team challenge...? anyone remember that? its almost like this. I went to it in 2004 in Winnipeg, really fun event. Scoring system used was 10.0 scale.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Spo-CAN. The original name of the city was Spokan Falls. In the 1880s the “Falls” was dropped and the residents voted to add a “e” at the end.

In a very early attempt to pronounce/transliterate the Indian word (which means “Children of the sun) it came out “Illium-Spokance.” Later the word was pronounced “Spokan-uh,” where the e at the end was voiced so slightly that it was eventually dropped by English speakers and just became Spokan.

The pronunciation “Spo-cain” is simply wrong and gives Spokanites a chance to laugh at silly Easterners who don’t know any better.

Excellent work, Mathman! And dont forget, we have legal pot shops,,,so use that as a memory hook....CAN a Bus....get it? Har har....

 

[CoyoteChris]

Thanks Golden for the info. So the fact that skaters can decline will change things.. which I reckon a few of the top skaters will.

I think so too, especially if injured....but that $600,000 in prize money starts to look good for skating a comp that, while lots of fun, is really not that important to the grand scheme of things.....and therefore not quite as stressful as worlds....
My only hope is the Javy brings his girlfriend to skate the exhibition! (I hope my wife who will be there isnt reading this....)

 

[CoyoteChris]

But, I do like the notion of having a more light, fun, stress-free event to cap off the skating season, so I'm glad there is something like this being offered.

Me too...so much pressure all season....and it looks like fun....and who can pass up the chance to see Frank surrounded by cheering kids dressed up in funny costumes?
http://www.teamchallengecup.com/home

 

[Sugarpova]

In dance, my picks would be the Shibs for NA and Ilinykh/Zhiganshin for Europe.

hmm I thought there won't be 3 pairs/dance teams? so no fan vote

 

[NanaPat]

hmm I thought there won't be 3 pairs/dance teams? so no fan vote

I just read the "big announcement" (there's a link to it from the story in post #37), and I agree. No third dance or pairs entry on each team. Also, in determining the team results, scores are added together, but some are dropped. For a team, 2 ladies, 2 men, one dance, and one pair are counted. Thought it looks like the prize money is divvied up equally between all team members, except for a extra bonus (not part of the team "pot") to skater/entry with highest score (in at least singles, maybe all categories; I've closed up the window and didn't take notes).

So, thought the format is different from the WTT one, it still emphasizes singles skating over pairs and dance by allowing more singles entries and (because of the more entries) having them count more, overall.

Also, note that skaters nominated for the third spot must be entered for worlds. So Ilinykh/Zhiganshin would probably be out even if there were a vote for dance. Which there won't be.