I hope all of the above! As long as Ashley is still driven and hungry, she will accomplish at least one of these. She looks to be in great physical shape and seems much happier that she and Adam are reunited. Whatever funk she was in earlier this year is hopefully behind her.
2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
I hope all of the above! As long as Ashley is still driven and hungry, she will accomplish at least one of these. She looks to be in great physical shape and seems much happier that she and Adam are reunited. Whatever funk she was in earlier this year is hopefully behind her.
It's ok if you disagree with my view on wagner - that's why we have these discussions. Some may view her position more optimistically and that's fine.
Wagner is, what, 25 now? Or 26...mid-20s, anyway. What I mean by "giving up" is this - and it is tied to the "resolve" issue. She isn't getting any younger. The sport isn't getting any easier. Her (international) competition continues to heat up. What exactly does she want to get out of this next season? For example, if she wants an Olympic medal, she's gonna have to do a WHOLE lot better than she has this season, and even leading up to her 2016 moment. And that may require of her an incredible effort that her body may or may not be up for. And physical issues aside, she'll have to gain some mental fortitude as well. Alternatively, if she wants to just make it to another Olympics, she'll still have to work hard but she may not have to push her physical limits quite as far. She's still comfortably one of the top contenders in the US but she cannot fully count on it (as she learned in 2014). Finally, if she just wants to continue competing, and doesn't care too much if she misses out on the Games, then she can more or less maintain the status quo. Different levels of commitment for each goal - and of course, there is never a guarantee of a result even if the work has been put in. It's up to her what she wants to do, and whether she can be at peace with herself no matter what the outcome is or where the chips fall.
As for the question of whether she can bounce back from this season, as she is nearing the end of her career, I'd ask how she wants to go out - how she wants to be remembered. Can she use that as motivation to rise to new heights - or will the pressure be too much and weigh her down? We just don't know yet. She has what I see to be a mixed track record in this regard, and this is where predictions come in - which each skate fan approaches from his/her perspective.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
This makes sense to me. She wasn't at the top-top of her game last season. She was coming off her World medal, the season before the Olympics, and there was a concerted effort on her part, based on interviews, to leave gas in the tank for the Olympics. She's wasn't going "all out" last season, as far as I know, and it showed.
I do wonder though just how much harder she can actually push herself physically. Maybe she was lazy last season (as I think Rafael alluded to?) so could still be room for her to really work hard and improve. At the same time, she basically never looks out of shape - she always starts and ends the season looking fit as heck.
As for her goals, I assume her goal is NOT number 3 - as in, she definitely has her eyes on the Olympics. No way she doesn't! But is her goal an individual or team medal? How realistic is she being with herself? We all know that an individual medal is pretty unlikely for Ashley, but not outside the realm of possibility, especially if others falter (just as she could've snagged another world medal this year). She probably knows an individual medal is unlikely, and the question is how hard will/can she work based on what is probably a very slim chance?
I'm not worried about pressure on her anymore (don't make me eat my words next season, Ashley!). She doesn't seem to beat herself up over mistakes, just take them as they come, and she's grown very comfortable as a veteran and in who she is as a skater. She's able to shake things off.
I think you just nailed it - that's the fundamental question that she will be faced with should she choose to push forward with an Olympic goal, in addition to what I outlined above.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
I know it's okay to disagree. What occurred to me is that Ashley's a person who works very hard, on ice and off ice; and also really values her leisure time and vacation time. She's like Javier Fernandez in that respect, as opposed to (apparently, from coaches' comments), Yuzuru. My opinion is that Ashley and Javier know this about themselves. To me, it's probably true that if either one of them gave up their recovery time, their skating would suffer, rather than getting better. Or conversely, give up her self-image as underdog, something she doesn't need to do this coming season. That's the sort of thing I meant in asking what you thought she'd have to give up.
She turns 26 sometime in May.
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- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
It seems to me that Rafael thinks that about Ashley in general, thus he feels he has to push her harder, although he's also said he thinks what she's done is tremendous: improving technically at an age when most women aren't. I believe Ashley knows he's the coach she needs, and I trust her; she knows herself. Still, it's interesting to me that Brian Orser, for instance, talks about the very different approach that Javier needs in order to do his best. He needs his summers off, etc. Tracy Wilson helps tremendously in this, I think. She talked in her TSL interview about how she'd been the disciplined half of her team with Rob McCall. She'd begun, after a year or two, to think he should be more like her. But then she realized that no one gave more at the rink than Rob did. After she started seeing it that way, she saw it as part of her contribution to the team that she'd pick him up, get him to the rink on time, that sort of thing. Another reason it was so interesting to me is that Frank Carroll has the same you-must-be-disciplined, and no excuses, approach to all his students. It worked beautifully for Lysacek and Kwan, not so much for others. They're all brilliant coaches in their way. Personally I favor the Orser/Wilson philosophy: alter the program/expectations according to the skater(s).
:agree:
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2014
Thank you! I'm sorry you didn't get to go though.
Mirai skated to her short program from this past season as well as her Shake it Out exhibition. I am no technical expert by any means, but she looked great and it's always nice to see her smiling. 
It is not uncommon for any professional, athlete or otherwise, to have a slight slump or to "release their foot from the gas" after a very successful accomplishment, like Ashley's silver at Worlds. She had a steady season, albeit not stellar, but she made the world team, did her part to assure we have three spots (and that was quite a challenge considering Japan didn't have that success) for the Olympics, and avoided any major injury. I'm not saying she purposefully pulled back last year, although I've heard others say that, and now she has is not out of gas, can rework hip hip chin chin and figure out the perfect long program as a vehicle for her Olympic season. I think she needs to try to put her triple-triple and single jump triple into the second half of her short to get a few extra points. As others have stated, just when folks have questioned Ashley is when she's delivered her best. I would count out every other elite US lady before I would count Ashley out. She's been our most consistent Ladies skater for almost a decade. If Carolina could make the Olympic podium at 29 (or 27?) so too can Ashley.
Not to mention Maria Butyrskaya who won her World title just a few months shy of her 27th birthday, followed by another World medal a year later, plus numerous other titles and medals. Ashley is a late bloomer too and may well follow Maria and Carolina's path of having their best results in their mid- to late-20s.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
I'm not sure about that - not trying to be negative, because I love Ashley, but we need to be realistic. Maria competed in a different era, where skating clean and performing and engaging the audience mattered more than 3-3s and levels. Carolina always had great jump technique and incredible skating skills. Ashley has relatively weak skating skills, and it's hard to imagine her jump rotations getting better than iffy. One great thing she's done is that she seems to have learned how to handle pressure after so many years of not being able to put two strong programs together - it's rare to see her fall or pop. Unfortunately, learning how to handle pressure has come a little too late for her, at a time when the depth of competition in other countries and the technical difficulty has increased dramatically.
I do wonder if her under-rotations happen due to pressure/competition nerves, or if they are a recurring problem in practice due to weak technique or not being in shape enough. Are they more mental or physical?
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2016
I disagree. Ashley is as inconsistent as the next us lady but rather than falling she underroates. If she fell every time she underrotated(instead of cheating) nobody would consider her consistent. Heck when she won silver at worlds she underrotated 4 jumps, only 2 were called. Underrotating is supposedly worse than falling in this system but the judges give her the benefit of the doubt most of the time(ahem 2a nationals) and so it goes unnoticed in her scores and placements (when they help her out..not quiet the case for coc). Anways I like Ashley I hope it doesn't sound like I am bashing her and I think she could make a run for bronze at the Olympics (with Alina and Evgenia healthy and able I just don't see how any us lady or any other lady for that matter will have a chance at anything other than bronze....... unfortunately
) I just don't think we should be calling her consistent. Consistent is Evgenia Med. Consistent is Satoko Miahara. Consistent is Yuna kim. I dont really count Ashley in that group.While Wagner may not be consistent by top international standards, she's about as good as it's gonna get as far as the US is concerned. To her credit, she's been able to remain in the world's top 7; meanwhile, just about every other US lady is a flippin' rollercoaster.
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- Feb 17, 2010
I'd say she is even consistent by international standards. While she never gets 7 triples rotated, she rarely has a complete meltdown with multiple falls. Perhaps only Evgenia and Elena R are more consistent in the current field.
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- Nov 20, 2015
consistent in the way Ashley and Elena are isn't going to always win. they can be beaten by less consistent skaters that have a great performance. Its a matter of higher highs and lower lows... but yes, I'd say Ashley is consistent. Gracie could beat and has been Ashley, but Ashley has certainly not had the meltdowns that Gracie or Karen has. (Then bring in to the picture Polina which as of last competitive form was same situation as Ashley - consistent, but beatable by a high performance of Gracie, struggles with underrotations). Of course Evgenia is a different story in her senior career. No idea how Polina or Gracie will perform. I'm hoping to see both in their best form. I want to see all of the US ladies bring their A games to the season. Make US Nationals as tough as Russian Nationals. Our ladies have the talent.
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2016
Did something just happen with Gracie? I just saw a video on YouTube that was posted today. It was written in Japanese I think, so I couldn't read it.
