2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Shayuki]

I wonder what's your opinion on Trusova's 200+ degrees prerotation on her lutz?
https://i.loli.net/2018/05/30/5b0e7a52175bd.gif
It occurs to me that prerotation has never been an issue

I'm well aware that Trusova has 180 degrees of pre-rotation. I was making comparisons between Tuktamysheva and skaters who have zero pre-rotation. If we could ease with the strawmen.

On that point though, aesthetically pre-rotation on Lutz doesn't even bother me nearly as much as a mule kick hammer. It's around 10 times more important to me to not hammer than to not pre-rotate. But it's still not going to be top notch technique, as little as it bothers me aesthetically.

 

[chopinskate]

Why are we claiming that Berestovskaya has a clean lutz? Looks to me like she somewhat swings her body into the jump to get full rotation. She doesn't get it, but I will avoid the UR discussion as you requested.

Compare with Kostner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b0pFxg6Fh4

She's 10. She might get better. This discussion is kind of useless.

And mule kicks aren't about aesthetics. Skaters who use them do it to get full-rotation as far as I know. They also make the jump look pretty wild:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1DtIYDn_7o&feature=youtu.be&t=1m18s

Kostner and Tuktamysheva are the best current lutzes in ladies for me, and I'd add Karen Chen when she gets it right.

This is the best lutz in ladies for me: https://youtu.be/k5_7Iu82gi8?t=2m11s Monstrous height and distance.

 

[Shayuki]

Why are we claiming that Berestovskaya has a clean lutz? Looks to me like she somewhat swings her body into the jump to get full rotation. She doesn't get it, but I will avoid the UR discussion as you requested.

Compare with Kostner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b0pFxg6Fh4

She's 10. She might get better. This discussion is kind of useless.

And mule kicks aren't about aesthetics. Skaters who use them do it to get full-rotation as far as I know. They also make the jump look pretty wild:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1DtIYDn_7o&feature=youtu.be&t=1m18s

Kostner and Tuktamysheva are the best current lutzes in ladies for me, and I'd add Karen Chen when she gets it right.

This is the best lutz in ladies for me: https://youtu.be/k5_7Iu82gi8?t=2m11s Monstrous height and distance.

Clean Lutz technique... They tend to be borderline UR for her, of course. And yes, mule kicks are used with purpose, just like many other things are - But they're very ugly and it isn't proper, efficient technique. Kicking the floor hard with the toe pick isn't as effective as using a lighter touch, just like punching a sand bag doesn't make it move as far as pushing it.

If we talk about the best Lutz ever for ladies, it probably still is the one by Vivian Le. Proper technique and male quad Lutz air time.

 

[yoloaxel]

Clean Lutz technique... They tend to be borderline UR for her, of course. And yes, mule kicks are used with purpose, just like many other things are - But they're very ugly and it isn't proper, efficient technique. Kicking the floor hard with the toe pick isn't as effective as using a lighter touch, just like punching a sand bag doesn't make it move as far as pushing it.

If we talk about the best Lutz ever for ladies, it probably still is the one by Vivian Le. Proper technique and male quad Lutz air time.

I think mule kick aren’t aesthetically pleasing, but I prefer a clean lutz with a mule kick than a prerotated one - heavy prerotation (minimal is not a problem for me) is somewhat cheating for me

 

[Shayuki]

Swinging into rotation isn't clean technique. Technique doesn't end at PR, toe pick, and edge. The feet are connected to the rest of the body. She'll get better, she's just 10.

If you think that that amount of "swinging"(there isn't even any bouncing) makes it unclean technique, I don't even. With her air time, she doesn't have the luxury to chill around if she wants to land it anywhere near rotated.

 

[chopinskate]

If you think that that amount of "swinging"(there isn't even any bouncing) makes it unclean technique, I don't even. With her air time, she doesn't have the luxury to chill around if she wants to land it anywhere near rotated.

I'll continue to disagree with this. She will get better vault as she gets better leg strength and power in general, and she'll be able to get her rotations in without needing to swing. If she can't, likely she'll be told to PR slightly, and they'll change her technique. There's no need to call this clean technique, it isn't perfect. The reason she swings is because she can't handle her own lack of PR in a way to rotate fully.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Possible layout for Zhenya?
3F-3T
3Lz
3Lo-1Lo-3S
3F-2T
2A
3Lo
2A

 

[Grin]

Possible layout for Zhenya?
3F-3T
3Lz
3Lo-1Lo-3S
3F-2T
2A
3Lo
2A

How much her BV will increase with this new layout?

 

[sk8r4ever]

Possible layout for Zhenya?
3F-3T
3Lz
3Lo-1Lo-3S
3F-2T
2A
3Lo
2A

Maybe a 3F-2Lo?

 

[Spirals for Miles]

That would depend on how much Brian allows to be backloaded I guess...

 

[sk8r4ever]

If backloading is gonna be banned, I hope she puts her 2As and her 3Lo in the front half so that she could backload the jump that are worth more points

 

[andromache]

That would depend on how much Brian allows to be backloaded I guess...

I don't foresee Brian limiting the number of points she can get from backloading as long as she is capable of executing it. He's not an idiot, and just because none of his previous skaters have backloaded as much as Eteri's doesn't mean he doesn't want his skaters to win. Yuzu and Javi both worked to get some 3As and quads into the second half of their programs for maximum points.

 

[moriel]

How much her BV will increase with this new layout?

her current layout
3F3T: 9.5
3S3T: 8.5
2A2T2T: 5.9
3Lz: 5.9
3F: 5.3
3Lo: 4.9
2A: 3.3
BV (new SOV, no second half multipliers): 43.3

With the proposed layout, the jump BV of the spirals for miles layout would be 43.2.

Both layouts below have a BV of 43.7, but the first has a higher overall GOE factoring if i am not mistaken
3S + 2T + 2Lo
3F + 3T
2A + 3T
3Lz
3F
3Lo
2A

or

2A + 2T + 2Lo
3F + 3T
3S + 3T
3Lz
3F
3Lo
2A


TBH there is not much to do unless she repeats 3Lz

 

[colormyworld240]

Zhenya did experiment a bit in the beginning of the last season, but as soon as her consistency dropped a bit (which is normal), Eteri told her to stop. Then the injury came and it became truly impossible. So Zhenya's been wanting to upgrade her TES since at least the last season. She took 'the hardest decision of her life' (her words) to change coaches and move countries so she can achieve this. She might not have the technique and health at this point, but the intention and determination to increase the TES are there, I assure you.

The intention to upgrade tech is there for every skater. But whether or not they can execute it, that has yet to be seen, but I do hope we see it! It's not that they don't want to, but that they couldn't at thew time. IMO, if scoring was done correctly, Alina would have the GOE advantage and Zhenya would have PCS advantage, but we didn't see that this season, they normalize the scores too much and don't allow for much distribution.

 

[KiraraChin]

The intention to upgrade tech is there for every skater. But whether or not they can execute it, that has yet to be seen, but I do hope we see it! It's not that they don't want to, but that they couldn't at thew time. IMO, if scoring was done correctly, Alina would have the GOE advantage and Zhenya would have PCS advantage, but we didn't see that this season, they normalize the scores too much and don't allow for much distribution.

There are intentions and intentions. An intention like 'maybe one day' is different from 'I want this so much that I will uproot myself and move to a different country for it'

 

[tars]

"Everybody flocks to Tutberidze now" - interview with coach Yulia Kulibanova from St. Petersburg.

She (obviously) supports changing age limit and openly admits, that if she was Tutberidze, she would have likely opposed it. This pro-change coalition is partly Russian anti-Eteri movement, I tell you. GRU should quietly check that Dutch fed's phone calls from Russia...

 

[BossT]

Interactive №1 - Whose 2A is the best? [Russian girls] (test mode)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtmk-zuACnQ
Girls selected: TOP Russians in 2018-19 season.
UPDATED link!

 

[Mawwerg]

Interactive №1 - Whose 2A is the best? [Russian girls] (test mode)
https://youtu.be/ataWNN6aWhQ
Girls selected: TOP Russians in 2018-19 season.

I think there are not enough girls. And why Zagitova's axel is taken from her junior season? It seems quite outdated.

 

[DaNiCG]

"Everybody flocks to Tutberidze now" - interview with coach Yulia Kulibanova from St. Petersburg.

She (obviously) supports changing age limit and openly admits, that if she was Tutberidze, she would have likely opposed it. This pro-change coalition is partly Russian anti-Eteri movement, I tell you. GRU should quietly check that Dutch fed's phone calls from Russia...

I dont really see whats wrong, its her position, figure skaters know better than us, and who better than her, who had see darkness and lightness to comment about this issue.
Also other feds would be affect by this too, Canada been in top of my mind, if they raised the age, the younger canadians would not compete either, and they're their hope

but oh well, my opinion

 

[moriel]

I dont really see whats wrong, its her position, figure skaters know better than us, and who better than her, who had see darkness and lightness to comment about this issue.
Also other feds would be affect by this too, Canada been in top of my mind, if they raised the age, the younger canadians would not compete either, and they're their hope

but oh well, my opinion

I dunno, i think such opinion is fair if it is explained. I don't believe those "they know better" when there is no reasoning behind it except for random speculations.
Lets go through her points:
- Quote: "Ideally, it would be great if everybody competed with athletes of their own age". Yeah, indeed. For example, it is utterly unfair that a 13 years old is forced to compete with a 16 years old. Or a 17 years old with a 31 years old. This problem is not solved by change of the age limit to 17.
- It is unfair to have kids compare with grown up women. Quote: "Boys can learn new jumps even at 20, but girls will have only what they learned until 14, until their puberty". Using this is a reasoning to increase senior age from 15 to 17 makes no sense.


I mean, it is her position, but the reasons she gives to explain it make no sense. This is why people start questioning her position.
If like, she gave actual examples of how staying 2 extra years in juniors benefits both physical and mental health of skaters. Statistics of career length vs age when a skater turns senior. References to articles where this is studied. I mean she is a coach, she should know.