2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating | Page 154 | Golden Skate

2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

yoloaxel said:
As a (not so new) Zhenya fan, I actually agree with you. Orser is a great coach, but he still has a lot to prove in the ladies field, as he hasn't had a really successful lady since Yuna (who was 19) - sure, Gabby won 4CC silver and WC bronze so it's not like he's been a total failure either. I just think he has to prove himself and Zhenya is actually a great way for him to do it: if he manages to make her jumps better and her skating bigger without killing her consistency, then he will lead her to great results.

It's a gamble for him and for her - she chose him and she might have made the right choice, especially under the new system, and if she thinks he is the best option for her than she has done the right thing moving - plus, his training method is definitely more merciful than Eteri's for a woman's body, which will hopefully allow Zhenya to have longevity. Orser has created amazing champions like Javi and Yuzu and, to an extent, Yuna. At the same time, it is a risk that they are both taking, as Zhenya was extremely successful under Eteri and Orser hasn't had that much to say in the ladies field in a while.

Both of them have everything to prove - which is what makes it all exciting :)
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Thank you. I actually don't want to raise any hate towards him. I just consider myslef being realistic man and I don't like when somebody or something is presented as unquestionable and simple pointing at facts is taken as hate (towards Zhenya or Orser).

As for the new/not so new Zhenya's fan :) : well, i don't share e.g. russianfan's view of Zhenya, but he was completely right when he recently pointed out that not so long ago there were very few people who defended Zhenya against massive amount of hate. But somehow since she turned to Orser there arose huge amount of her new fans resembling unexpected spanish inquisition a little, behaving like "we are the true fans and anybody who dares to disagree with us or even points at some things (like this issue with Orser) is a hater".

Again, that doesn't mean that I agree with everything what was said against Orser. But people should be more realistic. There is a chance Zhenya will be great under his lead, and this chance is not small. But that doesn't mean that it is hating when somebody just points out that he does not have too much experience with older succesful ladies skaters or (like I did a month ago) that in fact very few ladies spent with him some longer time with long-lasting success.
 
flanker said:
No, that's not salt against Zhenya. It's hardly anything personal towards her. That's nothing more than logical argumentation about Orser's succes with ladies older than 18/19 based on evidence vs. the Orser's defenders who are hardly able to accept any presented facts that could show that he isn't so much more succesful than e. g. Eteri with ladies turning 20.

I underline that this is not anyhow aimed towards Zhenya. But a moth ago when this all started my first question was who of Orser's ladies is the example of long-lasting succesful lady. No, I did not receive any material answer, I was just blamed and marked as hater who can't deal when somebody disagree with him. Now I see it's still the same.

So, making myself more clear. Zhenya is free lady who can choose her coach by her own! I completely respect that and her decision doesn't change my view of her as an exceptional FS lady and I wish her all the success sheis able to achieve. But that, on the other hand, does not mean that I have to agree with any of her (new) fans who can't deal with any doubts and more importantly who can't withstand any doubts about Orser as "the only and holy genious coach". Howgh.
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On the topic of hate because it has occurred very frequently in here: I think we should be a bit more careful who we call haters, all of us. Especially us Zhenya fans. And yes, I am saying this as her fan. But the thing is, we‘ve seen so much hate towards her in the past years and that‘s probably why we‘re a bit sensitive about this topic. Maybe we need to calm down a bit and don‘t take everything personally, that‘s true! But we are allowed to have an opinion as well, aren‘t we? I mean, saying that Orser doesn‘t have as much experience as we all want to believe doesn’t make you a Eteri fanboy. But stating that he is a great coach who has achieved great things with his female skaters doesn‘t make us Orser fanboys either or automatically mean that we all think he‘s a genius or something. Just saying. It goes both ways. :)

I also think that some in here should still be careful about how they talk about certain skaters they don‘t like. It‘s perfectly acceptable to utter concern about a interview from a logical point of view. Her Yuna statement indeed seemed a bit illogical if you think about it carefully. But I don‘t find it necessary to call someone arrogant, selfish, fake, shallow or something like that just because of a personal dislike. THAT IS what I would call hate. Because it‘s just a personal feeling and really, this is not Zhenya‘s fanfest so I accept reasonable criticism of her like it had been done on the past few pages but not attacks on her personality.

So, in conclusion: We probably all need to calm down a bit. Us Zhenya fans could try to act reasonable and accept criticism of her. And the others could try to only aim their criticism at things about her that are not highly subjective (like her personality) but rather things that can be discussed reasonably like her skating, interviews she made and things she explicitly stated. Could that be fine as a compromise?

And I really hope that‘s the last time this topic comes up because, to be honest, I‘m sick of it. Discussing is fine but all this accusing is making me anxious. :noshake:
 
Fluture said:
Of course! Tursynbaeva with her inconsistency and her tiny jumps would absolutely win over Medvedeva, two times GPF champion! And Medvedeva doesn‘t get the right to participate, you‘re right, why would you let a two times Olympic silver medalist participate in the GP stages? Oh honestly, the nerves of some people! :shrug:
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I am worried bearing in mind that Russian FS Federation:coffee:has deprived the world, European and GPF champion Tuktamysheva of the opportunity to participate in the OG 2018.
 
frallik said:
I am worried bearing in mind that Russian FS Federation:coffee:has deprived the world, European and GPF champion Tuktamysheva of the opportunity to participate in the OG 2018.
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Tuktamysheva didn't have the results to be considered for the Olympic team. Sotskova has won a silver at GPF and placed 4th at Euros (when she should have probably been 3rd). What would the reasoning behind sending Tuktamysheva instead of her have been?
 
yoloaxel said:
Tuktamysheva didn't have the results to be considered for the Olympic team. Sotskova has won a silver at GPF and placed 4th at Euros (when she should have probably been 3rd). What would the reasoning behind sending Tuktamysheva instead of her have been?
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I think that is just a simple example of how if you have no results currently, you are out, regardless of your past achievements.
 
frallik said:
I am worried bearing in mind that Russian FS Federation:coffee:has deprived the world, European and GPF champion Tuktamysheva of the opportunity to participate in the OG 2018.
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This doesn‘t make any sense. Tuktamysheva was world, European and GPF champion in 2015. That‘s great but the Olympics were in 2018. That‘s three years of a difference. For a figure skater, that‘s almost an eternity. She didn‘t have any results in the past years that would have made it seem reasonable to send her over Sotskova. Medvedeva however, she‘s two times Olympic silver medalist. Her fanbase is huge, not only in Russia but all over the world. She was one of the most discussed athletes in Pyeongchang. If she does okay at the test skates and probably even if she doesn‘t, they‘ll still send her. At least this season she‘s still obviously one of Russians top three. Next season with Kostornaya, Trusova and Sherbakova turning senior it will be a different story. But for now? She‘s got a reputation, they‘d be stupid not to send her.
 
moriel said:
I think that is just a simple example of how if you have no results currently, you are out, regardless of your past achievements.
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If that was the point that OP wanted to prove then I agree with them 100% :biggrin: to have a spot in Russia you really need to be at the top of your game
 
frallik said:
the fun'll:laugh2:begin when:bow:Tursynbayeva lands:cool14:4S in the GP stages
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Do we know whether she‘s already landed it once in training or competition? Or for how long she‘s training it? Nevertheless, I‘m hyped if she really manages it! Quadolution! :cheer:
 
Fluture said:
Ah, yes, so I guess Japanfed will also think twice about sending Yuzu to international competitions since he withdrew from WC as well ? Zhenya was injured, she‘d skated three clean programs at the OG with a broken foot. The fed knows this. :noshake:
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Russia FS Fed published the official medical conclusion on the full restoration of Medvedeva before the EuropChamp. EM treated injured foot three full months.
 
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