2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Sam-Skwantch]

NVMD!!! You’ve all gone mad in here :scard7:

 

[Fluture]

I'm talking about Kihira's goe. It was a universe away from any kind of fairness lol. Only blatant jalosie

Then again: Explain what exactly was so unfair about Rika‘s GOE. Give examples, give reason. Otherwise, I‘m terribly sorry but I won‘t be able to take you seriously or discuss with you since you‘d just be shouting your opinion without even backing it up with at least remotely sensible arguments.

Really? You really couldn't understand what that user was getting at? Even though he's complained multiple times?

Sure, a universe away from any fairness, along with the under-rotation call that was dismissed on Zagitova's +3Lo.

Obviously, I understood the implications being made. They weren‘t that hard to catch lol. That’s not what I meant. It was more like the whole post being written confusingly and without a clear point or arguments for that matter.

 

[Max Millennial]

Then again: Explain what exactly was so unfair about Rika‘s GOE. Give examples, give reason. Otherwise, I‘m sorry but I won‘t be able to take you seriously since you‘d just be shouting your opinion without even backing it up with at least remotely sensible arguments.

Obviously, I understood the implications being made. They weren‘t that hard to catch lol. That’s not what I meant. It was more like the whole post being written confusingly and without a clear point or arguments for that matter.

Oke, take your examples if still didn't.
+4 for jump with 1 bullet point is a shame. 3 times +4 +5 for jumps with barely 1-2 bullets is an abomination here.

 

[Alexz]

Why must Evgenia / her fans be always brought into conversation even when she's not competing??

exactly. I like her, but she is not the story of ongoing action.

Also I want Evgenia to bounce back and make it even more competitive in Ladies field. Well, if not for Euros or Worlds, next season then.

 

[chopinskate]

Oke, take your examples if still didn't.
+4 for jump with 1 bullet point is a shame. 3 times +4 +5 for jumps with barely 1-2 bullets is an abomination here.

You are, of course, free to make a detailed comparison of the GOEs and calls received by at least two skaters here: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...eason-New-Rules-amp-Judging-Singles-and-Pairs

Since your main issue seems to be Kihira's score compared to Zagitova's, I'd love to hear your expert opinion on those two.

 

[Fluture]

You are, of course, free to make a detailed comparison of the GOEs and calls received by at least two skaters here: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...eason-New-Rules-amp-Judging-Singles-and-Pairs

Since your main issue seems to be Kihira's score compared to Zagitova's, I'd love to hear your expert opinion on those two.

:agree:

 

[Elucidus]

but at the same time she is not your typical Japanese girl who is skating to yet another Japanese Disney-princess-like style with yet another classical music (or similar) and stereotypical balletic moves.

But.. she is? At least in sp Typical japanese snooze-fest without a shred of personality

But the thing is we usually don't really know much about Japanese girls other than formal interviews and polished to perfection and boredom tv fluffs.

I strongly suspect that is absolutely not the case if you would live in Japan since there are huge amount of media materials not available anywhere outside the country. Considering their obsession with figure skating I wouldn't be too surprised to know that they even install cameras in their skaters homes to make live tv shows about their lives

 

[VenusHalley]

Well, it seems that Kihira may be the next candidate for the "favorite girl to overscore". But I think she did deserve her score for yesterday's skate. But if she wins the GPF, and there are greate chances she will... she will be the one showered by GOEs and PCS for the season, just as the Russian girls have been for past few seasons. It is just how the ISU works now.

 

[Alexz]

But.. she is? At least in sp Typical japanese snooze-fest without a shred of personality

Imho, generic language of choreography used is to blame here. But yet we still can see something small screaming "I'm Rika, Im right here" underneath it all.

So probably the Transitions (TR) and Composition (CO) components of PCS should be lower - and that's Rika's choreographer and coach to blame here, not her. Rika's Interpretation of the Music and Performance components are deservedly high. For obvious reasons. Although her Skating Skills (SS) component is solid and just good for a now, but not (yet?) exceptional. But that's just my taste and intention to give her coach something to think about. Rika needs more complex transitions in and out the elements. So Rika's PCS would be 1.0-1.5 lower, and her a bit lower TR and CO component would show her coaches where they should do better. But 1.5 - that's nothing under current CoP, although judges should be more consistent in logic here. If we completely nitpicking here, her transitions should have more variety, more difficulty and more quality and that's the job for choreographer to create them this way in the first place and then a coach to train it with Rika. Although Rika's continuity of movements from one element to another has a very good lyrical flaw. As for her CO (composition element)... well like we discussed above already here the choreography and both programs are nice, but blunt and generic. Definitely no originality, no pattern and no accents on musical phrases in choreography (because it is all soft and lyrical, there is no change of tempo, no accent and no "story" in both programs (even somewhat abstract), although her form and poses are nice. So basically PCS-wise her mark is high and is appropriately high, just may be should be knocked down a notch - like 0.5-0.75 lower for TR and 0.5-0.75 for CO. Just to give her choreographer and coach something to work on better. But that's just me and my imho.

I strongly suspect that is absolutely not the case if you would live in Japan since there are huge amount of media materials not available anywhere outside the country. Considering their obsession with figure skating I wouldn't be too surprised to know that they even install cameras in their skaters homes to make live tv shows about their lives

Nope.

 

[Alexz]

I think it was bound to happen after Rika beat the undisputed top Russian lady this season. But it‘s just the SP and Alina still has great chances to win. I don‘t get how people ensky Rika already as if she had dethroned Alina completely already (or shout she‘s overscored, it goes both ways) when the big and most important part of the competition is still yet to come. No competition is won or lost until the last skater has performed and got their score. So, we could see Rika winning tomorrow. Or Alina. Or someone else, like Liza, even though that’s pretty unlikely. Both seem to be in great shape and I‘m happy to see an exciting rivalry like theirs unfold.

Good point. I will tell you even more: we are not even in the mid season yet. Mid season is only after Rus, US, Japan and Canada Nationals, it is the time when national teams for Euros, Worlds and Four Continents are getting picked. That's when we talk. GP is a good commercial kickoff of the season, but decisive tournaments is yet to come. And season is indeed long. It's just us fs fans, who got so used to the thing when right off the bat Medvedeva was causally starting her domination at the beginning of the season for the recent few years. In the past before that it barely was a time when one skater constantly dominates the whole season long (in seniors at least). Season is long, a lot can happen.

 

[largeman]

NVMD!!! You’ve all gone mad in here :scard7:

Some say mad, some say passionate or devoted

 

[lanceupper1114]

NVMD!!! You’ve all gone mad in here :scard7:

I literally LOL'd

 

[Metis]

Not familiar with technique here, but if Liza went into the 3A with more speed, could she improve her success rate of landing it? On camera, it always looks like her speed decreases and she jumps from a standstill.

You may find this discussion of the Axel interesting. Both Rika and Liza’s takeoffs are discussed.

 

[Metis]

Some say mad, some say passionate or devoted

A little from column A, a little from column B... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I thought Alina did a great job last night. Her jump landings were a bit scratchy, and a judge would have been entirely reasonable to cap her jump GOEs at no more than +3 (since she missed the core bullet for take-off and landing). On the other hand, she hit all her levels and gave a strong performance. It’s not really shocking to see a Rika leading with a cleanly-skated programme with higher technical content, but the idea that this means the end of Alina is laughable. Her PCS were probably lower than some feel are appropriate due to not being at 100% physically and the jump landings, whereas Rika’s PCS obviously went up with a clean skate and a stunning performance. Hardly evidence of bias. I’m impressed by Alina’s ability to stay calm and deliver under immense pressure, as having to skate after a monster score like Rika’s is no easy task.

The idea that Alina is doomed and can’t win the GPF baffles me a bit. The main goal of the SP is not to win the competition but rather to avoid losing it. Unless you have a programme with such immense BV (much harder for the ladies than the men) that you can accrue a meaningful point margin over your competitors even with mistakes (more or less impossible now with the new SoV), then the short isn’t going to be the deciding factour. Granted, the short was the margin of victory for Alina at the Olympics, but she did have a meaningful BV difference in both of her programmes relative to everyone else, and SoV and GOE were different. We had three women within a half a point range at IdF after the short and there wasn’t nearly as much teeth-gnashing and garment-rending.

On a completely different note, while I hate what’s happened to Masha’s this season, Sofia has been a welcome surprise and I’ve come to really enjoy her skating and personality. Her consistency has been crazy. I hope she has a chance to develop and we see more of her in coming seasons (and later this season, depending on how nationals go).

 

[Mr Cat]

The Rika vs. Alina drama is I'm not too partisan, tbh let the best woman win

I will say I'm a little underwhelmed by Alina's SP this season, maybe it doesn't need a sample of EVERY song from POTO? Less is more. The lutz-loop seems sketchier too?

I love everything about Rika except the awful dress and maybe a more mature hair style sometime soon? Now that she's queen bee elect

And where does all this leave Tukt? She needs to add a 2nd 3 axel to her long and upgrade the 3t-3t if she wants to stay competitive IMO Can she do it?

 

[Vandevska]

Please people, discuss something else. There are SEVEN other Russian ladies, including the sp podium in juniors. They did so well. Can't we just discuss those cuties??

 

[Fluture]

Please people, discuss something else. There are SEVEN other Russian ladies, including the sp podium in juniors. They did so well. Can't we just discuss those cuties??

I‘m with you. Give the juniors some attention!

How many quads do you think will be landed? Anna looked great in practice today, much better than yesterday. I think going into the FS in 6th place will give her the right mindset. She has nothing to lose. I think she‘ll perform more freely this way. For any of those who like to calculate: I‘d say her chances at a medal are pretty good given her jump layout in the FS. What do you think? A 4Lz-3T is already worth about 15 points, if I’m not mistaken, so if she lands this one, she has already made up any difference there was after the SP. She doesn‘t even have to land the second quad. So it looks to me like a medal is easily achievable. Not as easily as before the SP but still. She just has to be in the right mindset. Hope she will be.

Sasha is a little firecracker. She looks taller to me, though. Did she get a new dress because maybe she outgrew it or was there another reason? Will we see another dress for the FS also?

Who will be the first to get a 4Lz-3T combo and make history?

Where will Alena place? Can she repeat her magnificent performance from the SP and translate the same energy into the FS?

What about the others... little Alena and Nastya. What are their chances at a medal?

I think the JGPF is at least as exciting as the senior one this year.

 

[Scott512]

I‘m with you. Give the juniors some attention!

How many quads do you think will be landed? Anna looked great in practice today, much better than yesterday. I think going into the FS in 6th place will give her the right mindset. She has nothing to lose. I think she‘ll perform more freely this way. For any of those who like to calculate: I‘d say her chances at a medal are pretty good given her jump layout in the FS. What do you think? A 4Lz-3T is already worth about 15 points, if I’m not mistaken, so if she lands this one, she has already made up any difference there was after the SP. She doesn‘t even have to land the second quad. So it looks to me like a medal is easily achievable. Not as easily as before the SP but still. She just has to be in the right mindset. Hope she will be.

Sasha is a little firecracker. She looks taller to me, though. Did she get a new dress because maybe she outgrew it or was there another reason? Will we see another dress for the FS also?

Who will be the first to get a 4Lz-3T combo and make history?

Where will Alena place? Can she repeat her magnificent performance from the SP and translate the same energy into the FS?

What about the others... little Alena and Nastya. What are their chances at a medal?

I think the JGPF is at least as exciting as the senior one this year.

for the second year in a row I prefer the Junior Grand Prix final to the senior Grand Prix final. That probably won't be the case next year with Sasha and Alena becoming senior next year.

 

[Amei]

I actually think this may be a good thing for Alina. I mean there is still the free skate, so it’s not like she has even lost yet. But I think this wake up call may force the coaching team to consider training the more difficult jumps for Worlds and if not then, for next season. Which she would likely need to remain competitive with the younger Eteri girls moving to seniors. I doubt they would consider risking upping her TES if she was still winning everything as is.

Am I confused, last time I looked Alina is coached by Shcherbakova and Trusova's coaching team both of whom are landing quads in competition and likely to go senior next year that Alina's going to compete against why would a Japanese girl beating her in competition be the wake up call to train more difficult jumps.

 

[Sugar Coated]

Am I confused, last time I looked Alina is coached by Shcherbakova and Trusova's coaching team both of whom are landing quads in competition and likely to go senior next year that Alina's going to compete against why would a Japanese girl beating her in competition be the wake up call to train more difficult jumps.

The same reason the coaching team didn’t up Zhenya’s TES prior to the Olympics. Because the coaching team doesn’t have the incentive to take additional risks if the competition is one of their own athletes. In the end, the coaches need a winner whoever that may be. Now if an outsider is a threat it makes sense to start adjusting and taking more risks to remain on top.

My thinking is that quads/3a is not a priority for Alina unless a non-Eteri girl is a threat. And the earlier she makes them a priority the more likely she will be competitive with 3a (or 2a) next year. Because this year wasn’t about beating the juniors yet, now she has a reason to push her technical limits sooner rather than later.