2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2018
I never considered the word underdog insulting. It’s more like the next rising star.
- Joined
- May 16, 2018
+1
Alina is the one going to senior worlds, not these other girls. If they put the junior girls on her level now it would be like the Russian fed. sending a sign that they're definitely in the process of dumping her and it will basically hand the world title to the Japanese. When these younger girls turn senior and they have their own success at that level their marks will go up and it will be a completely different game come Nationals.
Senior skaters are always given the advantage over the juniors. They will always be protected unless it's impossible to do so. The playing field will never truely be equal. It's not just a Russian thing as that's what happens everywhere else as well.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
We just have to agree to disagree then. I stand by my statement that Alina was the underdog going into the Olympics despite winning everything beforehand and I do not consider it an insult in any way. If you think of it like that, well, I‘m sorry but I won‘t take back what i said. I was talking about how people perceived her and the situation btw and was never even talking about actual achievements so it’s obvious that the expectations can differ from actual results, reality or even statistics. And from what people and the media said beforehand and given the reaction was afterwards: yes, she was the underdog in many people’s minds. What‘s so bad about that? She proved them wrong anyway and won.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2005
I looked at 2016-17 scores and Alina was 7th in PCS SP, 6th LP.
And she won the Silver Medal in spite of this.
Very impressive Alina!
I think most people on here know that PCS is very much reputation judging but it doesn't make it anymore right/fair because 1 day (theoretically speaking) Kostornaia and Shcherbacova (who I thought was underscored) will one day get overscored based on their reputation because Alina Z. got screwed when she was a Jr but now that she's a senior and won some medals she's getting excessive PCS.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
I don‘t know why we‘re suddenly discussing this one word so much.
If you want me to phrase it without using the word underdog: Zhenya was the overwhelming favourite in most people‘s minds DESPITE Alina clearly showing what she‘s capable of at Europeans and the GPF. And given that + the image the media sold, resulted in the uproar after the Olympics. What I don’t get it is: if some people here think it was so expected that Alina would win then why was everyone so surprised by it afterwards?
The amazing story for me clearly is that she was NOT expected to win and yet went out there and proved everyone wrong. I meant that as a compliment, in fact. Her story is amazing in itself, like I said. Alina proved that you can come from literally nowhere and seasons of seasons of being a mediocre novice and junior skater to being the top junior and then the top senior in your debut and win the Olympics despite everyone thinking the older, more experienced two time world champion would clearly win. That‘s the kind of stories you tell little girls in figure skating schools: “Look what she did by working hard and believing in herself. If she can, you can do that, too!“
This. I think most Alina fans (including myself) strongly suspected she would win the Olympics. I thought maybe the judges would give it to Evgenia if she had the skate of her life, but Evgenia was battling injury and looked slow and sluggish to me. TBH, I was surprised that the Russian media and figure skating notables were so surprised and angry that Alina won. Were they not following the rest of the season?
The word “underdog” was clearly used to describe the media narrative, which largely painted Medvedeva as the dominant world champion and Alina as the young upstart with a lot of momentum. It was an incorrect narrative that is partially responsible for all the “Zhenya was robbed” cries, because casual viewers were misled by commentators and analysts into thinking the competition was closer than it actually was. That’s all.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2005
I think that sums up last Olympics best....
Alina was still considered an underdog IF both skated clean.
Didn't Evgenia have a small "bobble" or 2 at Europeans.
As an aside, we would not even be having this conversation if Alina hadn't shown amazing presence of mind in the LP.
After pulling back on the 1st attempt at the 3Lz-3Lo, she then calmly adding it in later in the program.
If she hadn't thought so quickly, maybe she wouldn't have even won the silver medal at the Olympics.
Gave me the same thrill as when Midori Ito did a 3A late in her 1992 Olympic LP after falling on her first attempt.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
Kostornaia fell and still scored in the mid-70s. That's a great achievement. For me, she is the best of the juniors but there's still things I'd like to see her clean up. On the F and the Lz, it would improve the aesthetics of the jump if her picking leg were straight. There's a few other details, like more stretch in the split jumps, etc. but there is very little to criticize with her skating. I think Alina and Evgenia are more developed and have a bit more artistic range at the moment, so I'm ok with them getting higher PCS marks.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2018
I think something might be lost in translation. Alina wasn’t the favorite to win, that’s all that is meant by the term underdog. Not because she’s not accomplished but purely because most people expected the two-time world champion and more experienced competitor to win. Underdog can mean someone who is completely unexpected. But it can also just mean colloquially the person that most did not expect to win. Which given the controversy after the Olympics seems reasonable, it’s not that they didn’t think Alina was capable but that most people expected Zhenya to edge out Alina. Which makes her the underdog for gold. It’s really not an insult or dismissal of her accomplishments.
I mean, most people would probably have considered Rika the “underdog” in a the GPF because she’s young and less experienced and going up against the Olympic champion.
+1 on everything you said
- Trusova while a remarkable skater with her quads, without she doesn't have anything that stands out for her
- Shcherbakova - my first reaction when I saw her scores was that the Fed is trying encourage her and her team to stay in Jrs next year. Which is sad because my impression of her skating is that she along with Alena K. are 2 juniors that artistically are competitive with the Seniors.
- Leonova - the female Voronov, she keeps hanging around (I don't mean it in a negative way)
- Medvedeva - given how she has skated the this season, the technical aspect sadly wasn't a shock; I was impressed that she performed it very well - it didn't look like it was something that was thrown together in a month (granted it was very similar in style to everything she's done in the past).
- Zagitova - she does her elements well but I still detest the programs and think her costume should be a kitchen sink because that's what her choreographer thew at those programs
- Joined
- May 16, 2018
PCS is not "very much" reputation judging, it has been an integral part of it for as long as it's existed: for everyone. If everyone benefits from this componenet (let's say, the imaginary component category of "Reputation" which certainly is there) then it is actually right and fair, because anybody can take advantage of it. In other words, it's not "overscoring" or "Excessive PCS" because we know why it is high i.e. justified. If Kostornaia and Shcherbakova move on to the seniors and keep doing well, and get 37+ PCS, it will have been partly on the merit of what they will have done (including what they have achieved already). The custom didn't start with Zagitova, it's been there for a long time, and athletes and fans know this. Thus, it is not unfair.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
I agree! She has a very tight rotation on her 3Ts in combo but during the other jumps her legs seem a bit “loose“ for a lack of a better word. I wish she could make the edge on the lutz a clear outside rather than slightly outside/flat simply to avoid the FLUTZ!! callers once she turns senior. I think for now her artistry is well equipped for being a senior but she obviously still has a lot of room to grow. She‘s only 15 after all. She is very well-rounded, however, which I like most about her. I feel like she is the complete package but still isn‘t maxed out yet which is great! The little stumble in the SP was a fluke but it affected the performance and she was clearly upset by it. And to think her SP would have got into the 77 range without that, is crazy. (1.5 point GOE for step sequence and level 4 + maybe half a point more in PCS)
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2018
It’s not about fairness though. This isn’t meant to be a “fair” competition. Its meant to select the national team for the second half of the season and Worlds while also previewing the potential competitors for next year. The junior girls can’t go to Worlds and having them beat out the seniors isn’t really helpful for the senior competitors momentum. That’s why they elevate the PCS for senior girls and presumed favorites.
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