2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Grin]

The first person from Russia, who called him was TAT and he is "under impression, that deep inside she supports Medvedeva's decision".
Well...


So they wanna kill the sport after all...

I can only hope after couple of years, when junior GP and Worlds take over all the attention and viewership from senior category, they sober up and bring 15 (or 16) back.
Because it will happen 100%.

I doubt USFSA wishful thinking will cause real age limit change.

 

[moriel]

I doubt USFSA wishful thinking will cause real age limit change.

I hope it does not.
But its not just USFSA. Canada pretty interested too, since they have no good junior skaters currently.
So its US and Canada vs Russia and Japan.

 

[Scott512]

My point was Evgenia words (serious or not) are in favor of age limit change. I was asking Tyranid if he agrees with it (age limit change).

What did she say? I hope she recalls she won worlds at 16.

 

[Grin]

Okay, ladies and gentlemen.
Imagine it is 2020 RuNats now and we just watched clean skates from Evgenia (skate of her life with beautiful choreo), Trusova had 4t, 4s, 4lz and 3a, Sherbakova 4lz, 4t, 3a and Kostornaya 4t, 4S and3a. All had correct 3lz3lo combo and improved in SS equally since 2018.
How will you rank them? What will happen if Evgenia is off the podium?

 

[Grin]

I hope it does not.
But its not just USFSA. Canada pretty interested too, since they have no good junior skaters currently.
So its US and Canada vs Russia and Japan.

In Mr. Lakernik we trust (and in common sense of course )

 

[tars]

I doubt USFSA wishful thinking will cause real age limit change.

I can't believe I'm writing this (don't like him), but: Dear Alexander Lakernik, please save the figure skating! :hopelessness:

 

[tars]

Okay, ladies and gentlemen.
Imagine it is 2020 RuNats now and we just watched clean skates from Evgenia (skate of her life with beautiful choreo), Trusova had 4t, 4s, 4lz and 3a, Sherbakova 4lz, 4t, 3a and Kostornaya 4t, 4S and3a. All had correct 3lz3lo combo and improved in SS equally since 2018.
How will you rank them? What will happen if Evgenia is off the podium?

2020 is tricky, but in 2022 I'm pretty sure at least 3/4 of what you wrote won't happen.

 

[Grin]

2020 is tricky, but in 2022 I'm pretty sure at least 3/4 of what you wrote won't happen.

It is hard to crazypredict 2022 )
There can be like 10 Eteri girl+Med competing for podium at 2022 RuNats.

 

[Tyranid]

The first person from Russia, who called him was TAT and he is "under impression, that deep inside she supports Medvedeva's decision".
Well...


So they wanna kill the sport after all...

I can only hope after couple of years, when junior GP and Worlds take over all the attention and viewership from senior category, they sober up and bring 15 (or 16) back.
Because it will happen 100%.

Tars, how will it kill the sport? Have you seen the difference in attendance and vieweship between juniors and seniors? And don't give me the quad children speech. These come and go. History is not on their (or your side).

You say it will happen 100%. Nice, what are you willing to bet on that? Back up the talk.

 

[Grin]

Tars, how will it kill the sport? Have you seen the difference in attendance and vieweship between juniors and seniors? And don't give me the quad children speech. These come and go. History is not on their (or your side).

You say it will happen 100%. Nice, what are you willing to bet on that? Back up the talk.

Quad children... as if there are plenty of them.
How many senior ladies have more views on youtube than Trusova this season?
How many senior ladies are more interesting to watch than Kostornaya, who doesn't have quads right now? I doubt you can name more than 10 and it will be your personal biased opinion. Many people on this very forum who isn't really kind to Eteri and her girls will have Kostornaya in top 10 most interesting ladies to watch this season.

 

[Shayuki]

I hope it does not.
But its not just USFSA. Canada pretty interested too, since they have no good junior skaters currently.
So its US and Canada vs Russia and Japan.

I don't understand why USA would be for it, though. Alysa Liu would be first year eligible for Olympics with current age limits(At this point in time, the strongest first-year eligible skater in the world), and would be their best medal hope at the Olympics since... 2006. I expect the USFSA guy to be informed of this and to actually end up being against the proposal. After all that talk about how the drought for American ladies needs to be ended...

Okay, ladies and gentlemen.
Imagine it is 2020 RuNats now and we just watched clean skates from Evgenia (skate of her life with beautiful choreo), Trusova had 4t, 4s, 4lz and 3a, Sherbakova 4lz, 4t, 3a and Kostornaya 4t, 4S and3a. All had correct 3lz3lo combo and improved in SS equally since 2018.
How will you rank them? What will happen if Evgenia is off the podium?

Shcherbakova 1. Trusova 2. Kostornaia 3.

Is it about whether Medvedeva would be sent to worlds or something? If that was the scenario, I'd hope not.

Tars, how will it kill the sport? Have you seen the difference in attendance and vieweship between juniors and seniors? And don't give me the quad children speech. These come and go. History is not on their (or your side).

You say it will happen 100%. Nice, what are you willing to bet on that? Back up the talk.

At junior worlds, Trusova's SP had 500k views before the channel was blocked, FS had 1mil before channel was blocked and had another 500k video deleted - Now it has a 300k view video and a 930k view video among others.

The highest viewcount vid of Osmond's FS at worlds I could find is 59k.

 

[Grin]

I don't understand why USA would be for it, though. Alysa Liu would be first year eligible for Olympics with current age limits(At this point in time, the strongest first-year eligible skater in the world), and would be their best medal hope at the Olympics since... 2006. I expect the USFSA guy to be informed of this and to actually end up being against the proposal. After all that talk about how the drought for American ladies needs to be ended...

Shcherbakova 1. Trusova 2. Kostornaia 3.

Is it about whether Medvedeva would be sent to worlds or something? If that was the scenario, I'd hope not.

1) I think USFSA wants to check others reaction for that kind of proposal (for now).
2) Can you imagine the storm if clean Medvedeva under Orser won't make the team?

 

[Shayuki]

1) I think USFSA wants to check others reaction for that kind of proposal (for now).
2) Can you imagine the storm if clean Medvedeva under Orser won't make the team?

The storm? No, I don't think there'd be that bad a storm. Maybe about Trusova if she continues lagging behind when it comes to artistry, but I don't see the general public having very many issues with Kostornaia or Shcherbakova. And even then, I assume they'd recognize the merits of performing 3 different quads and a 3A.

 

[Danny T]

1) I think USFSA wants to check others reaction for that kind of proposal (for now).
2) Can you imagine the storm if clean Medvedeva under Orser won't make the team?

I'd say there would be no storm. So what if Med is going to be clean at hypothetical 2020? Under the scenario proposed, the other girls wayy out-tech her. 4Lz, 4S, 4T and 3A gets you 100+ TES with neutral GOE; currently Evgenia has 80 and change - and her GOE is already pretty much maxed. Happens to men all the time, and besides a few grumblings here and there, is going to keep happening. Ladies should be no different.

 

[Miller]

1) How does Auxier think he can just tell us what "everyone" wants to see? What about those of us who simply want to see the best skating -- not the "mature women's skating" if it means watered down content where it's an event to land a lutz....
2) Why do you get to decide that we don't see Shcherbakova, Kostornaya, and Trusova until 19-20? Even if Auxier suddenly has the power to decide things like this, he says 17-18, not 19-20. Plus, THERE IS NOTHING IN THIS YEAR'S PROPOSAL ABOUT RAISING THE AGE. So it can't happen until 2020 at the very earliest -- when Shcherbakova, Kostornaya, and Trusova will all have been senior eligible for a year already. You really think that if it passed then, they'd send them BACK DOWN TO JUNIORS???

This is just wrong on so many levels....

Apparently the Dutch Figure Skating Association is proposing an urgent proposal re this. Age limit 17, 2020. https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/isu-rules-changes-proposals-reaction.102100/page-9 post 244. I haven't got the Facebook link, perhaps someone else has.

Wouldn't affect Alexandra Trusova etc. in 2019, plus presumably they'd have some sort of grandfather clause so that they don't go back to juniors in 2020 (Alexandra would only be 16). However from what I can see it would affect any skater not currently in Juniors e.g. Alena Kanysheva, Ksenia Sinitsyna, Alysa Liu of the States. Come 2020 they'd only be 15 so would have to wait a further 2 years, and wouldn't even by eligible for the next Olympics, if I've got it right. This could be a massive change if it happens to go through.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

They had better not....
Besides, USFSA wouldn't vote for that if it affects Alysa Liu

 

[Shayuki]

Apparently the Dutch Figure Skating Association is proposing an urgent proposal re this. Age limit 17, 2020. https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/isu-rules-changes-proposals-reaction.102100/page-9 post 244. I haven't got the Facebook link, perhaps someone else has.

Wouldn't affect Alexandra Trusova etc. in 2019, plus presumably they'd have some sort of grandfather clause so that they don't go back to juniors in 2020 (Alexandra would only be 16). However from what I can see it would affect any skater not currently in Juniors e.g. Alena Kanysheva, Ksenia Sinitsyna, Alysa Liu of the States. Come 2020 they'd only be 15 so would have to wait a further 2 years, and wouldn't even by eligible for the next Olympics, if I've got it right. This could be a massive change if it happens to go through.

Such a proposal... blocking everyone entering after 2019-2020, the specific year during which Russia has the strongest age group ever? Completely blocking the competition until after Olympics? That's some proposal... Do they not follow juniors or do they actually not know what would happen?

I guess Russia wouldn't mind... And then they'd propose a reversal for the following quad after sweeping the Olympics.

Speaking of which, if those age limits would hold... Akatieva's age group would then be first year eligible for the 2026 Olympics... age group that can also be considered the next "strongest ever".

 

[dansams]

Taking it slow just isn't possible in Russia if you want to become something at some point.

Now, do you think that there aren't 15yo 150p skaters in Russia who follow a similar philosophy? There are, dozens. You just will never see them.

Is this purely the Yulia effect? Or has something else fundamentally changed that has driven this wave? I heard the gov't poured in a ton of $ building new rinks in the last decade.

 

[tars]

Tars, how will it kill the sport? Have you seen the difference in attendance and vieweship between juniors and seniors? And don't give me the quad children speech. These come and go. History is not on their (or your side).
You say it will happen 100%. Nice, what are you willing to bet on that? Back up the talk.

Just as I wrote, with time it's gonna bring down the attention and viewership of senior category below the level of junior category - for couple of years casual fans will go along with it, but when more and more news of great, history-breaking skates, talents and records arrive from 13-17yo juniors, people are going to start scratching their heads, thinking "what kind of II-tier figure skating are we actually watching?". "Why am I paying 80$ for watching older ladies with triples, when I can watch the youngsters jumping quads for 10$?", "how is this woman (pointing to 80% of seniors) more artistic than Kostornaia?", etc..
Consequently, they will start turning those heads away to juniors or from the sport as a whole.

Same with judges - how long can they keep senior scores of program with 3s above nicely performed junior program with, lets say, two quads? It's unfair and impossible in a long run - 15,16,17yo juniors are going to dominate the top score rankings, commentators and journalists won't be able to close their eyes and mouths in regard to this fact as well.
"Fantastic skate of our new world champion, the best she delivered this whole season, beaten only by three junior scores this year, nevertheless..." - can you imagine how it's gonna influence the perception of the sport?

Think of all those 15,16,17yo Lipnitskayas, Zagitovas, Higuchis, Asadas, Kims, Kwans, Baiuls, etc. delivering year after year one of the finest mastepieces in the history of figure skating in junior category, being constantly compared with and often outshining the senior performances. What are they going to say to viewers and sponsors?
"Yeah, they're pretty good, but you know - we're for maturity and longevity" ???

It's ridiculous.

 

[Osmond4gold]

What is the purpose behind you using irrelevant age groups? I'm talking about today, not 5 years ago.

Anna Kuzmenko, 21st with 155.82 points in 2018 elder age Moscow qualifier. In 2013, she would have been third - The bronze medalist. The winner had 159.69 - Tursynbaeva.

Sure, a history of promoting juniors that never materialized into longevity, plays no part in the conversation, eh Shayuki. Let's just talk about another 12 year old wonderkid rather than talk about a skating system of overpromising and under delivering at the senior level.