2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Shayuki]

Just a feeling, watched a snippet of their jazz dance classes and her control and grace in movement is still far from the level of their instructress.
Besides, we are comparing to maybe the best age group in figure skating history, let's give her time.

That's only Shcherbakova, Akatieva's control and grace in movement is fine in comparison to any other junior. On the other hand, I've never seen anyone jump like Akatieva does and I wonder what her limit even is when it comes to jumps.

 

[hanca]

Geez, having a "famous"(Successful) coach isn't a bad reason to talk about someone. It's one of the most valid reasons.

Well, let me get this straight. You object talking about Zagitova ‘s sister because she is only known because of her famous sister, but you don’t mind talking about skaters who have a famous coach even though they haven’t achieved anything yet? That’s a bit contradiction, isn’t it? You either want to talk only skaters based on their personal achievements, and then I understand that you may not like that people are talking about Zagitova’s sister, but at the same time you shouldn’t think there is a reason to talk about other skaters whose only achievement is having Tutberidze, or, you like to talk about skaters who are connected to someone famous and then I don’t know why you object speaking about Zagitova’s sister.

Just to clarify, not all Tutberidze’s skaters will be succesful. For every Medvedeva and Zagitova there are skaters like Novakhova and Mitrofanova. In fact, the list of skaters who left or were asked to leave without ever making it to the top is longer than the list of skaters who made it. To be able to accommodate all skaters who are interested working with her and in her view may have potential, she needs to get rid of the skaters who are not delivering at the standard she would like.

 

[tars]

Here we go...

https://pp.userapi.com/c845221/v845221531/73c71/CYV32hYvKgc.jpg
https://pp.userapi.com/c846522/v846522003/70321/J5PG5Nlpcaw.jpg

 

[Shayuki]

Well, let me get this straight. You object talking about Zagitova ‘s sister because she is only known because of her famous sister, but you don’t mind talking about skaters who have a famous coach even though they haven’t achieved anything yet? That’s a bit contradiction, isn’t it?

It is not a contradiction because a good coach makes these skaters eventually achieve something. That's why if we have 2 promising, talented ladies and one's coached by Eteri and another by random coach x, we probably expect far more out of Eteri's student. It's only natural.

On the other hand, being the sibling of a good skater doesn't really mean anything on its own. Perhaps it would have some meaning if it causes their parents to seek the same coach(Going back to the coach) or has to do with especially good genetics or work ethic gained at a young age. But I don't consider these factors as important as having the best coach.

 

[dante]

being the sibling of a good skater doesn't really mean anything on its own.

Does being a dog of a good skater mean anything? Do you frown upon posting stuff about Masaru?

 

[Shayuki]

Does being a dog of a good skater mean anything? Do you frown upon posting stuff about Masaru?

I frown upon people predicting Masaru to become a better PCS skater than Alina, yes.

I'm disappointed if I need to actually explain the difference.

 

[dante]

I frown upon people predicting Masaru to become a better PCS skater than Alina, yes.

I think some people already do.

 

[tars]

I frown upon people predicting Masaru to become a better PCS skater than Alina, yes.

Who knows? :think:

 

[hanca]

It is not a contradiction because a good coach makes these skaters eventually achieve something. That's why if we have 2 promising, talented ladies and one's coached by Eteri and another by random coach x, we probably expect far more out of Eteri's student. It's only natural.

On the other hand, being the sibling of a good skater doesn't really mean anything on its own. Perhaps it would have some meaning if it causes their parents to seek the same coach(Going back to the coach) or has to do with especially good genetics or work ethic gained at a young age. But I don't consider these factors as important as having the best coach.

well, not all of them. Novakhova has not achieved anything, neither did Shuboderova, Mitrofanova, Tarasenko, Zenko, Bulitchev.....The list of those who left or were asked to leave is longer than the list of succeses, so I am not sure how can you say that those who have a good coach will eventually achieve something. That’s a pretty naive opinion.

 

[lesnar001]

Who knows? :think:

Not fair - Masaru is wearing 4 skates so she is able to do twice as much!!!!

 

[lesnar001]

I frown upon people predicting Masaru to become a better PCS skater than Alina, yes.

I'm disappointed if I need to actually explain the difference.

I think some people already do.

Wait until Masaru beats one of their favorites and watch the Masaru-Hate begin!

 

[Spirals for Miles]

well, not all of them. Novakhova has not achieved anything, neither did Shuboderova, Mitrofanova, Tarasenko, Zenko, Bulitchev.....The list of those who left or were asked to leave is longer than the list of succeses, so I am not sure how can you say that those who have a good coach will eventually achieve something. That’s a pretty naive opinion.

But many more did: Lipnitskaya, Shelepen, Sakhanovich, Voronov, Pitkeev, Medvedeva, Zagitova, Tsurskaya (would've been better without the injuries but still good) Trusova, Tarakanova, Kostornaya, Panenkova, Shcherbakova (just coming into it but already has important wins) Erokhov, Skirda (did well on the JGP under her)

Having a coach who coaches all these students into becoming champions is a much better starting point than being related to a talented skater...

 

[hanca]

But many more did: Lipnitskaya, Shelepen, Sakhanovich, Voronov, Pitkeev, Medvedeva, Zagitova, Tsurskaya (would've been better without the injuries but still good) Trusova, Tarakanova, Kostornaya, Panenkova, Shcherbakova (just coming into it but already has important wins) Erokhov, Skirda (did well on the JGP under her)

Having a coach who coaches all these students into becoming champions is a much better starting point than being related to a talented skater...

No, that’s not true that many more did.many more didn’t. Even some of those you named. What did Sakhanovich, Shelepen, Pitkeev and Tsurskaya achieved at the senior level?

 

[moriel]

No, that’s not true that many more did.many more didn’t. Even some of those you named. What did Sakhanovich, Shelepen, Pitkeev and Tsurskaya achieved at the senior level?

If we count how many brilliant juniors didnt achieve much at senior level...


Lets take 2014-15 JGPF, for example:

Qualifiers in men:
Jin Boyang - Successful at seniors
Shoma Uno - Successful at seniors
Alexander Petrov - 8th at euros, best GP placement 6th.
Lee June-hyoung - not a single medal at seniors, best 14th at 4cc and 24th at Worlds
Sota Yamamoto - pretty much no senior results (injury?)
Roman Sadovsky - best senior achievement: 10th at SA
Out of the 6 boys who qualified for GPF that year, only 2 are doing well


Qualifiers in ladies:
Serafima Sakhanovich - no senior results, can barely get a GP
Medvedeva - Successful at seniors
Wakaba Higuchi - World silver
Maria Sotskova - GPF final silver, 8th at worlds
Yuka Nagai - bombed everything at 16-17, didnt skate this year
Miyu Nakashio - i1th at her only GP.
Out of the 6 ladies who qualified, only 3 are doing well.

I would say that the chances of transitioning successfully to seniors are between 30% and 50%, on average.
Most skaters don't make it, regardless of the coach. Eteri is not alone here.

 

[Shayuki]

No, that’s not true that many more did.many more didn’t. Even some of those you named. What did Sakhanovich, Shelepen, Pitkeev and Tsurskaya achieved at the senior level?

Compare them to the skaters of other coaches and it should become obvious.

Also, if you need to use Shelepen(untalented, from a 0 talent era), Sakhanovich(only with Eteri for 1 season, had her best season with her), Tsurskaya(210+ points, GP medalist in her senior debut season), and a male skater(wrong thread) it's probably a pretty weak point you are making.

 

[Fluture]

Just saying that neither Zagitova nor Medvedeva were initially thought to win any big competitions, let alone win OGM and OSM. Medvedeva was more of an average skater when she was younger, I remember Eteri saying in a documentary that she isn‘t as naturally gifted as others and achieved everything through hard work. Zagitova? She‘s only been successful for 2 seasons, one in junior and one in senior. At the age of 12 she could only jump 2 (or 3, I‘m not exactly sure) triples. There were always others who were considered to win the Olympics in 2018, or Worlds or anything. Well, look at them now. So, I don‘t think it‘s that easy to judge whether a skater will be successful or not at such a young age. We can see talent in a few but will they have the motivation to work hard? What about injuries? So many things can happen. And yes, I agree, Sabina Zagitova looks like a pretty average skater to me. But look at her sister, she did once too and now she‘s Olympic Champion.

And obviously having a famous coach helps. You automatically have more of a starting bonus, some kind of reputation you won‘t get with a „no-name“. But whether you‘ll make it or not doesn‘t solely depend on the coach. It depends on you, your willingness to work and of course your luck. And also obviously people look at Sabina like they wouldn‘t do if she wasn‘t Alina’s sister. If you have a famous sister and work in the same field as her, people will wonder whether you‘ll achieve the same one day. Is it justified? No idea. But that‘s the way it is and has always been.

 

[moriel]

Just saying that neither Zagitova nor Medvedeva were initially thought to win any big competitions, let alone win OGM and OSM. Medvedeva was more of an average skater when she was younger, I remember Eteri saying in a documentary that she isn‘t as naturally gifted as others and achieved everything through hard work. Zagitova? She‘s only been successful for 2 seasons, one in junior and one in senior. At the age of 12 she could only jump 2 (or 3, I‘m not exactly sure) triples. There were always others who were considered to win the Olympics in 2018, or Worlds or anything. Well, look at them now. So, I don‘t think it‘s that easy to judge whether a skater will be successful or not at such a young age. We can see talent in a few but will they have the motivation to work hard? What about injuries? So many things can happen. And yes, I agree, Sabina Zagitova looks like a pretty average skater to me. But look at her sister, she did once too and now she‘s Olympic Champion.

And obviously having a famous coach helps. You automatically have more of a starting bonus, some kind of reputation you won‘t get with a „no-name“. But whether you‘ll make it or not doesn‘t solely depend on the coach. It depends on you, your willingness to work and of course your luck. And also obviously people look at Sabina like they wouldn‘t do if she wasn‘t Alina’s sister. If you have a famous sister and work in the same field as her, people will wonder whether you‘ll achieve the same one day. Is it justified? No idea. But that‘s the way it is and has always been.

I actually think the coach is minor.
Internationally, they care more about the fed, not the specific coach. You dont see a skater overscored because coached by X, or got choreo by Y ^^
Nationally, coach is relevant, yes, when there are many talented skaters, because you need the spots. But for that, Eteri is actually not a good one, because her skaters seem to be the less propped on internal competitions.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Eteri just needs to swap rinks with Buyanova
why does Buyanova need two anyway??

 

[tars]

She's so perfect, absolute superstar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQqWrjd6p1Q

 

[yoloaxel]

She's so perfect, absolute superstar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQqWrjd6p1Q

I really am looking forwards to seeing Alina's new programs! I want so see which direction she takes and how she will mature and develop! Last year I actually preferred her SP to her FS, so I hope we will se some more intense programs like that! I think she does have a lot of room to improve interpretation wise, so I'm glad they chose something dramatic like POTO which I think could allow her to do just that. I also want to see her in costumes different from the tutu ahah.

Just, please, ditch that EX