2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating | Page 147 | Golden Skate

2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

I don't see any problem even if they were using totally the same music.
How many Carmen have we ever seen? Does it make all of these programs the same? because of the music?
No.

How about Evgenia's EX "Experience" from the FoI show? it's music from Tarakanova's SP. She skated to it all season long. Does it make these programs the same? oooh how original...:sarcasm:
 
But the music will definitely suit Alena's style of skating. My only concern is how the jumps are going to be arranged in order to match the musical accents because it's a very lyrical melody.
 
Just asking out of curiosity but: Why not? I was using Zagitova as an example because she is the most recent one. I daresay that nobody or at least very few knew her before she moved to Eteri. Which was in 2015. It’s 2018 now. Who says there can‘t be any talented girl who‘s currently with an unknown coach but moves to Eteri one or to years before Beijing and becomes the top threat? Some girls peak later than others. Maybe there is one Eteri already took a look at but didn‘t find intriguing/talented/special enough to take up? Maybe they‘ll mature so much and increase their technical ability as well as their artistical? I know you are very invested in Russian skaters and I‘d not dare to fight you on this topic because I don‘t know as much about the younger ones but well... I‘m just not so sure you can rule out the possibilty that there are indeed skaters nobody knows about or peak later and become a surprise talent.

However, I do get your points and I agree that Alina‘s case probably was an exeption but really, all I was trying to say is that it isn‘t set in stone who‘s going to be the new Medvedeva/Zagitova of Beijing or which age group is going to be the most successful. Innate talent does play a major role, of course it does, but there are just so many more factors to take into account. :)
There's a couple of things to take into account. The first one is that Eteri has 3 girls born in early 2006, while she had no one but Zagitova for early 2002s. And the second is that the competition is much more fierce. Say Zagitova's main difference maker is her being a consistent jumper and able to backload - If there are several other skaters who can do that very thing, what would set her apart? Essentially, I don't think that being at Zagitova's 2018 Olympic level would be anywhere near enough for the 2022 Olympic gold. And Zagitova didn't have to compete with an age group such as the 2003-2004s, even outside of her own age group.

See, it wouldn't be such a huge shocker if a Panova girl like Anastasia Shabatova ended up going to Eteri and became successful and her top girl - She has some good qualities and great skating skills. But she still isn't an unknown, which sort of is my point. There are several of these decent ladies with potential, but they're... not unknowns at this point. An actual unknown, with mediocre skating skills, lacking artisty and barely any triple jumps, at this age... I really don't see a person like this emerging as the top skater. Heck, even Moroz is not an unknown and she's REALLY ... mediocre.

Now, there obviously is a tiny chance for such things happening as always, but that still doesn't make it meaningless to evaluate the skaters for what they are at the moment.
 
I remember quite well, how 90% of Russian figure skating fans after Zagitova's first JGP performance of 2016/17 season looked like this: :shocked:

Then, right away 90% of that 90% claimed it was a fluke. :biggrin:
 
Veronika Zhilina's 3Lutz(close-up, slow-mo)

It's pretty incredible how she went from having extremely inconsistent, rarely-rotated and landed 3Ts and 3Ss and not even having a 3Lutz at all to this. She even stopped doing her 3Lo during the latter half of the season because it was far too inconsistent. However, this 3Lutz is like a dream! Amazing outside edge, almost no pre-rotation, very pretty air position and the height would be excellent even for a junior, let alone a girl who just turned 10! Please be a consistent jumper next season and please maintain this technique to help with the reputation of Eteri's skaters' jump technique. :pray:

I remember quite well, how 90% of Russian figure skating fans after Zagitova's first JGP performance of 2016/17 season looked like this: :shocked:

Then, right away 90% of that 90% claimed it was a fluke. :biggrin:
I definitely don't think anyone expected such a performance out of her! While I wasn't going quite that far, I was pretty cold about her for quite a while. Still, it was surprising how she managed to be so consistent with such a program almost out of nowhere. To be honest, I felt a little bad for Gubanova. I thought that it would have been her season to dominate.
 
I definitely don't think anyone expected such a performance out of her! While I wasn't going quite that far, I was pretty cold about her for quite a while. Still, it was surprising how she managed to be so consistent with such a program almost out of nowhere. To be honest, I felt a little bad for Gubanova. I thought that it would have been her season to dominate.
Gubanova, Nugumanova, Fedichkina, Tsurskaya... there were maybe dozen skaters expected to play a role, nobody had even considered her a JGP participant before junior test skates.
Thing is, they are closed so still only the most eager fans got to know from leaks, "that Zagitova girl from Eteri group did well". The 194 points in August 2016 was an unexpected blow to respectable, knowledgeable fans. :biggrin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf4ZLROiy3s
 
I dunno, imho its pretty pointless for us fans to scout for talent before such talent is having first junior season.
Because anything can happen. We have seen girls showing from nowhere and improving a lot in short time. We have seen promising future champions not transitioning well to seniors.

We are fine.
If there are talented girls born in a certain year growing up, it is fine. More awesome russian ladies for us to cheer for. If there are not though, its also not bad, since it will give an extra year for the current ones to shine, before the girls who started skating inspired by Zhenya's and Alina's performances at the Olympics grow up =)
 
Gubanova, Nugumanova, Fedichkina, Tsurskaya... there were maybe dozen skaters expected to play a role, nobody had even considered her a JGP participant before junior test skates.
Thing is, they are closed so still only the most eager fans got to know from leaks, "that Zagitova girl from Eteri group did well". The 194 points in August 2016 was an unexpected blow to respectable, knowledgeable fans. :biggrin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf4ZLROiy3s
Not a JGP participant? That far... That far I wouldn't go. Well, here's what I did check out on Zagitova before the 16-17 season:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwTmOKB2m7s

Her skate during the Cup of Russia finals. I wasn't very interested in her mostly because I found her performing pretty lacking(Which continued throughout the 16-17 season), but she wasn't so bad that I wouldn't expect her to get JGP spots. Had a 3Lz-3Lo combo even there. Actually, watching that again, it's still not a bad performance. Worse than Kanysheva for instance? I'm not sure about that. Repeating Lutz and Flip and doing a 3Lz-3Lo is more impressive layout-wise than what any of the Russians from the upcoming age group have.

Now, I'll admit that I didn't expect her to become extremely consistent while having been super inconsistent before but the... best case scenario is pretty visible even in this FS.

I dunno, imho its pretty pointless for us fans to scout for talent before such talent is having first junior season.
Because anything can happen. We have seen girls showing from nowhere and improving a lot in short time. We have seen promising future champions not transitioning well to seniors.
Well, that's... true, of course. It's pointless, it's not like we recruit for coaches or anything. But outside of that, I don't agree with "it's pointless because anything could happen". That's like saying it's pointless to get a good education because you might end up unemployed anyway. Of course, the comparison isn't very good in terms of relative significance but still, it's interesting to know who's coming up and it's good to know skaters for a while longer and follow their progress - That's perhaps the most fun and interesting thing.
 
Not a JGP participant? That far... That far I wouldn't go. Well, here's what I did check out on Zagitova before the 16-17 season:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwTmOKB2m7s

Her skate during the Cup of Russia finals. I wasn't very interested in her mostly because I found her performing pretty lacking(Which continued throughout the 16-17 season), but she wasn't so bad that I wouldn't expect her to get JGP spots. Had a 3Lz-3Lo combo even there. Actually, watching that again, it's still not a bad performance. Worse than Kanysheva for instance? I'm not sure about that. Repeating Lutz and Flip and doing a 3Lz-3Lo is more impressive layout-wise than what any of the Russians from the upcoming age group have.

Now, I'll admit that I didn't expect her to become extremely consistent while having been super inconsistent before but the... best case scenario is pretty visible even in this FS.

Well, that's... true, of course. It's pointless, it's not like we recruit for coaches or anything. But outside of that, I don't agree with "it's pointless because anything could happen". That's like saying it's pointless to get a good education because you might end up unemployed anyway. Of course, the comparison isn't very good in terms of relative significance but still, it's interesting to know who's coming up and it's good to know skaters for a while longer and follow their progress - That's perhaps the most fun and interesting thing.

My point is that we cannot really know who is coming up. Because half of those girls may not even reach juniors, and probably only 1/4th of them will reach seniors.
 
Some highlights from Zhenya's interview with Vaitsekhovskaya:

On whether she's worried about the change\having bad results:

- You know, I'm by nature a human realist. I will be killed about my result only when I understand that I could have done better, but I did not do it. I can admit to myself in some not very pleasant things. If I understand that yes, this is my limit and for more I just can not at the moment, then I also admit that I took my place - the one that is right for me.
Now I clearly understand that for me a completely new life begins. I have never lived in another country before, I have never trained with foreign specialists, I have never eaten unusual food for more than two or three weeks. That is, everything changes completely. Absolutely new sheet. [...] First, I want to stay healthy. This is my main goal. Just need to try to make sure that this goal does not interfere with the result, find the right balance. In the load, in the diet, in the mental attitude, in the physical state.

About her post-Olympic recovery:

- It was a long process. My body and brain are arranged so that I recover very quickly after any stresses. Both mentally and physically. But, after the Olympics, everything was very long. In fact, only now I can say that mentally recovered completely.

On why she chose Orser and whether she likes the idea of training in a big group:

- Because Yuna Kim. This is the first thing that occurred to me when I began to think about the transition. Yuna won the Olympics in Vancouver in 19 years, and in 23 years she became the second at the Games in Sochi. At the Olympic Games in Beijing, I will be 22. The case, of course, is not in it alone. Orser in general there are many athletes, who in the figure skating are usually called age-old and who passed more than one olympiad. Yuna Kim is just one of them. [...] - Not at all. I have grown all my conscious life and trained in constant competition. It does not bother me at all. Especially since Bryan has the main part of his group - boys. This time. Secondly, Orser practices an individual approach to each athlete, and he himself constantly emphasizes this. Therefore, he has enough time and attention for everyone. And in general I like that before my eyes there will be a lot of top-level athletes who can give me something more than it was before.

On next season and rules changing:

- If we talk about the season as a whole, I'm not going to miss any starts. Neither open rentals, nor the Grand Prix stages. I would like to change the style of riding. Firstly, I have changed as a person and, probably, I can not be the same on the ice too. I have a different perception of life, a different perception of the world. I am sure that now I will come to Canada, and in my head everything will turn over again. I want to try myself on the ice in some new way. There are many images that I have never rolled, never even tried [...] These changes gave me a basis for further work, let's say. If they told us that we are now obliged to do all the jumps in the second half, I would have gone silently and did it.

On her old programs:

- Madly I liked the very first adult program, where I depict a girl who does not hear. "Karenina" really liked. But the one that I won with the second World Cup, at first I did not like at all. I just at the end of it "appreciated", because set a world record and I liked it that allows to reach the goal. And from "Karenina" I, as they say, the roof took down. Especially after these "January stars", where only the dress was beautiful. I was all in this program.

On how and why she learned english:

- In the most direct. I saw how foreign athletes of my age or a little older constantly chatting among themselves at competitions, and each time I thought: how do I want to talk to you too, but if I only knew how? Once I tried, then tried again. I brought three words from one trip, from the other five. Somewhere on the Internet I read how to correctly form a phrase, somewhere I learned some slang. And she did not notice how she was able not only to talk, but also to give interviews. It turns out not unmistakably, yes, somewhere I stumble, somewhere an incorrect grammar. But they understand me. And I understand people.

https://rsport.ria.ru/figure_skating/20180618/1138167724.html full interview - it's very long!
 
Not a JGP participant? That far... That far I wouldn't go. Well, here's what I did check out on Zagitova before the 16-17 season:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwTmOKB2m7s

Her skate during the Cup of Russia finals. I wasn't very interested in her mostly because I found her performing pretty lacking(Which continued throughout the 16-17 season), but she wasn't so bad that I wouldn't expect her to get JGP spots. Had a 3Lz-3Lo combo even there. Actually, watching that again, it's still not a bad performance. Worse than Kanysheva for instance? I'm not sure about that. Repeating Lutz and Flip and doing a 3Lz-3Lo is more impressive layout-wise than what any of the Russians from the upcoming age group have.

Now, I'll admit that I didn't expect her to become extremely consistent while having been super inconsistent before but the... best case scenario is pretty visible even in this FS.

Well, that's... true, of course. It's pointless, it's not like we recruit for coaches or anything. But outside of that, I don't agree with "it's pointless because anything could happen". That's like saying it's pointless to get a good education because you might end up unemployed anyway. Of course, the comparison isn't very good in terms of relative significance but still, it's interesting to know who's coming up and it's good to know skaters for a while longer and follow their progress - That's perhaps the most fun and interesting thing.

Anastasia MUKHORTOVA - Кубок СК Крылатское 2018 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYaNC8MjuBA
Anastasia Mukhortova FS - "Памяти И.С Русакова" 2018 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CyN3AKsCWk
 
(G) Alina Zagitova(16), Darya Panenkova(15), Anna Sherbakova(14), Anastasya Tarakanova(14), Alexandra Trusova(13), Alena Kostornaya(14), Sofya Akateyva(10), Sofiya Titova(9), Maya Hromyh(13), Kamila Valieva(13), Yasmina Kadirova(14), Darya Usacheva(12) - Tutberidze Team June 2018
 
The best part of the interview is how Vaitsekhovskaya is suddenly all nice with Zhenya =D

Also, from a previous interview, Zhenya on the ditched Averbukh program:
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1056529901.html
I like the free program by Ilya. I didn't put it away, and it is not impossible that I will return to it in future.

vs now

Specially after those "January stars", the only pretty things it had was the dress.
 
(G) Alina Zagitova(16), Darya Panenkova(15), Anna Sherbakova(14), Sofya Tarakanova(14), Alexandra Trusova(13), Alena Kostornaya(14), Sofya Akateyva(12), Sofiya Titova(9), Maya Hromyh(13), Kamila Valieva(13), Yasmina Kadirova(14), Darya Usacheva(12) - Tutberidze Team June 2018

Yasmina Kadirova(13)
Kamila Valieva(12)
Maya Hromyh(12)
 
The best part of the interview is how Vaitsekhovskaya is suddenly all nice with Zhenya =D

Also, from a previous interview, Zhenya on the ditched Averbukh program:
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1056529901.html


vs now

Yeah, that‘s what I wondered, too. It‘s not that bad of a program, is it? I really liked the music, especially Divenire is one of my favourite pieces used by her. I mean, yes, the program obviously wasn‘t as refined as it could have been but that‘s probably because it didn‘t really have time to be developed properly. But I agree that Anna Karenina was better for the Olympics. It had more of the „it“ factor and the storyline was more clear, appealing to the audience. But January Stars wasn‘t what I would call a bad program. :shrug:

Other than that I liked the emphasis she put on longevity. She chose Orser because he has experience with „older“ women in skating unlike Eteri. Really mature for a 18 year old to think that far. She wants to continue skating, she doesn‘t intend to stop. And by taking that step she made sure that she did everything she could have done and doesn‘t need to regret anything! :cheer2:
 
Also, from a previous interview, Zhenya on the ditched Averbukh program:
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1056529901.html

I like the free program by Ilya. I didn't put it away, and it is not impossible that I will return to it in future.
vs now
Specially after those "January stars", the only pretty things it had was the dress.



Are you the user "KSU" on the russian FSO forum? Because he wrote the same.
http://fso.forum.cool/viewtopic.php?id=854&p=29

Answers from other russian users:
This, I think, will still come up a lot. When I wrote earlier that Zhenya in some moments is a hypocrite, does not seem real, I wrote at all that I do not see Zhenya sometimes in the Gene - this was called Zhenya's cheate. Although I wrote that the main initiators and the main responsible for it - her team, led by Eteri and the leadership of Sambo, and Eugene is only a slave and the most obedient performer. Many thought that this did not change anything. Now, I hope, it is clear what changes? Obviously, I'm not going to idealize Zhenya, but in view of this opinion on whose side do I have to get up in this situation? It's clearly not Eteri. Much of what Zhenya is now kicking was done with Eteri's giving and under her sensitive guidance, and now it is used with might and main to kick Zhenya and protect Eteri? Well, I do not. Moreover, if there is a hope for Zhenya that it will change and become a real Zhenya, and not the one that was heavily sculpted from her, then in the case of Eteri there are no changes and it is not foreseen that once again confirms the behavior of her and her close environment in this situation. Including lies, hypocrisy and a lot of things that Zhenya is kicking, and in some ways it even took place, perhaps, only Eteri was the initiator, and not only the initiator, she was raising Zhenya like that, and for her this is absolutely normal behavior, that she continues to confirm time after time.

Down with censorship and diplomacy from Tutberidze and Co.:)

:agree:
 
Yeah, that‘s what I wondered, too. It‘s not that bad of a program, is it? I really liked the music, especially Divenire is one of my favourite pieces used by her. I mean, yes, the program obviously wasn‘t as refined as it could have been but that‘s probably because it didn‘t really have time to be developed properly. But I agree that Anna Karenina was better for the Olympics. It had more of the „it“ factor and the storyline was more clear, appealing to the audience. But January Stars wasn‘t what I would call a bad program. :shrug:

Other than that I liked the emphasis she put on longevity. She chose Orser because he has experience with „older“ women in skating unlike Eteri. Really mature for a 18 year old to think that far. She wants to continue skating, she doesn‘t intend to stop. And by taking that step she made sure that she did everything she could have done and doesn‘t need to regret anything! :cheer2:

As for the January Stars program... I dunno, i am once more peeved by how she suddenly changed it. If you look at her old interview, she didn't really need to say that she liked it, even for PR reasons, because the overall story was: "The feedback about the program was pretty positive, but I was so much into the Karenina theme". That would be enough for PR and to not upset Averbukh (who was probably not happy regardless).

I found the Yuna passage funny too. Yuna and BOrser are literally Zhenya and Eteri.
Yuna left BOrser in August 2010, after winning her first Olympic medal. Then 4 years passed and she got her second Olympic medal (ok, Medvedeva is yet to live this part). Also, like Eteri showed her unanswered messages to Zhenya, Orser revealed Yuna's new programs without her consent (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/sports/2010/08/136_72057.html).

At this point, I wish Zhenya would just stop giving interviews and go train.
 
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