2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[zounger]

She is better than a great deal of current seniors,

Can you name a couple of them?

 

[[email protected]]

But we need proper scores in order to reflect true quality which exists. It exists in Russia itself.
And 69.87 PCS for that performance at Worlds hurts skating. It hurts Russian skating too.

I shall paraphrase one infamous commentator's "It's Russia": "It's figure skating". There has always been reputation judging, always, even more during 6.0 era. There is no need to single out Zagitova's worlds. She just won OG and she had that reputational cushion, you like it or not. Any other skater would have it all the same. Now if she starts to fall every now and then, if she has bad programs she cannot relate to - it will be gradually reflected in the scores. It happened with Yulia and Liza. Yulia with her disastrous FP still got the bronze at CoC 2015. Liza as a reigning WC had a couple of bad skates with relatively good pcs before the judges lost faith in her.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Do we need to go into the discussion of whether generalizations like "all Russians think that they can never be beaten" bring any value to the thread or we could calmly agree that some people attach to the word "beat" just the results of protocols while others look broader?

My argument was based on 2 things. First, Alina's winning all previous competitions including those where Wakaba participated. Then Milano result was a clear outlier to which there are particular reasons: her illness and her overall exhaustion. Where did I say about luck? Second, when in the past certain top skaters had a meltdown I could not remember that people jumped to say that they were beaten especially by specific skaters to whom they previously did not lose. And SC 2015 is a right example.

That's a very special definition of the word beaten, but if you're happy with it, what can I do. Doesn't change the fact though Waka beat Alina. Just like Rika beat Waka at nationals, or Evgenia beat Caro at NHK, or Nath beat Yuzu at CoR of millions of other examples. I have no idea what you're second paragraph is supposed to get at, or what it "brings to this thread' either too

 

[Fluture]

I was talking about Worlds, specifically, not in general.

And it doesn't matter what artistry Alina has. Not the best? Doesn't matter. Her scores are so through the roof already, there is almost no room to grow. At 15, such as she was, she was apparently the perfect skater. Depressing as heck for someone like me.

For me, Russia has probably the greatest overall talent in female skating we've seen in quite a while in Kostornaya. The trouble is exactly in stuff like this. In the best case scenario, Kostornaya will draw equal to similar PCS as Alina, when right now, already, she's better. She is better than a great deal of current seniors, so I am not just talking about Alina either. But we need proper scores in order to reflect true quality which exists. It exists in Russia itself.
And 69.87 PCS for that performance at Worlds hurts skating. It hurts Russian skating too.

I agree with all your points. This problem with the PCs has existed for ages now. I was one of those who didn‘t like how Alina‘s PCs shot through the roof all of a sudden. But the thing is, even though she is already overscored, she still improves. Her DQ from a year ago or so is in no way comparable to the one at the OG. So, maybe the overscoring hurts skating in general but it doesn‘t hurt the skaters itself. Contrary to what seems to be common belief, skaters don‘t go and sit around like „Nice, my component scores are high already so why work on artistry any longer?“ They still improve and want to improve, no matter they‘re score because they‘re athletes and perfectionists.

The overscoring isn‘t their fault. It‘s the fault of the judges and of the system. And that‘s sad. But still, Alina came into the competition as the huge favourite. She‘d been Olympic Champion for like what... 2 months? She was the obvious favourite to win and the judges reflected that in their scores. That‘s the thing with reputation, you don‘t get it from nowhere. Alina won OGM and European Championships and she did it rightfully so. So, what happened at Worlds might have been judged unfairly but it was also kind of understandable why it happened.

But if there‘s one thing you‘re certainly right about it‘s everything you said about Alena Kostornaya. She really does have everything. The jumps, the artistry, the elegance, the maturity.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Can you name a couple of them?

Amy Lin, Kuchvalska, Williams, Li, Larkyn, Brezinova, McKay, Kropa ... want bigger? Konstantinova, Nagasu, Bradie. That child is stupidly talented. If you watch Senior Bs and Challengers it is really something to compare. Russia is lucky.

 

[chopinskate]

Kostornaia indeed seems to have a few great qualities. Remains to be seen how they're nurtured, but if she gets onto a good upward trajectory, that's a competitor worth watching.

 

[LucyH]

I agree with all your points. This problem with the PCs has existed for ages now. I was one of those who didn‘t like how Alina‘s PCs shot through the roof all of a sudden. But the thing is, even though she is already overscored, she still improves. Her DQ from a year ago or so is in no way comparable to the one at the OG. So, maybe the overscoring hurts skating in general but it doesn‘t hurt the skaters itself. Contrary to what seems to be common belief, skaters don‘t go and sit around like „Nice, my component scores are high already so why work on artistry any longer?“ They still improve and want to improve, no matter they‘re score because they‘re athletes and perfectionists.

The overscoring isn‘t their fault. It‘s the fault of the judges and of the system. And that‘s sad. But still, Alina came into the competition as the huge favourite. She‘d been Olympic Champion for like what... 2 months? She was the obvious favourite to win and the judges reflected that in their scores. That‘s the thing with reputation, you don‘t get it from nowhere. Alina won OGM and European Championships and she did it rightfully so. So, what happened at Worlds might have been judged unfairly but it was also kind of understandable why it happened.

But if there‘s one thing you‘re certainly right about it‘s everything you said about Alena Kostornaya. She really does have everything. The jumps, the artistry, the elegance, the maturity.

Yes fine she's Olympic champion but she fell like what 4 times? How is the PCS same as a much cleaner Wakaba? Someone tell me how is it possible that falling onto the ice multiple times doesn't impact the presentation and composition of the program? In order for them to be the same, her base PCS was just that much higher?? I think not... The reputation judging gives a cushion to a certain extent but that was RIDICULOUS!! Especially the way her program was backloaded, once she fell, there was no room to catch up and it was train wreck and trying to justify the judging because she was OG champion is just <eyeroll>... I completely agree that it is the judging and not the skater that is at fault but using that skate as an example is NOT picking on the skater. It is simply reflecting on the state of judging. It was horrific the way that Vincent Zhou was scored as well in the. UR - what UR? Ridiculous. This kind of judging is terrible for the sport because it negates all the hard work that all the skaters put in when the general public looks at the sport as a bit of the joke. Honestly it gets harder attract new fans and defend the sport to those who don't take it seriously when this type of judging exists. OK rant over...

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Lets return this thread to the state it had been in.....

Is it true our beloved Yulia and Elena are in or going to Japan? Are they doing a clinic there for their Academy? Anyone got the scope?

 

[KiraraChin]

Amy Lin, Kuchvalska, Williams, Li, Larkyn, Brezinova, McKay, Kropa ... want bigger? Konstantinova, Nagasu, Bradie. That child is stupidly talented. If you watch Senior Bs and Challengers it is really something to compare. Russia is lucky.

Mods, can I start a fan Fest for Yatagarasu?
Thank you.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

YES!! I love Maya! Now we just need Dasha Usacheva and Kamila Valieva with her too

When you are secretly a fortune teller
This was on March 30

 

[Fluture]

Yes fine she's Olympic champion but she fell like what 4 times? How is the PCS same as a much cleaner Wakaba? Someone tell me how is it possible that falling onto the ice multiple times doesn't impact the presentation and composition of the program? In order for them to be the same, her base PCS was just that much higher?? I think not... The reputation judging gives a cushion to a certain extent but that was RIDICULOUS!! Especially the way her program was backloaded, once she fell, there was no room to catch up and it was train wreck and trying to justify the judging because she was OG champion is just <eyeroll>... I completely agree that it is the judging and not the skater that is at fault but using that skate as an example is NOT picking on the skater. It is simply reflecting on the state of judging. It was horrific the way that Vincent Zhou was scored as well in the. UR - what UR? Ridiculous. This kind of judging is terrible for the sport because it negates all the hard work that all the skaters put in when the general public looks at the sport as a bit of the joke. Honestly it gets harder attract new fans and defend the sport to those who don't take it seriously when this type of judging exists. OK rant over...

She fell three times. And I don‘t agree with her PCS at Worlds at all. The scoring hasn‘t been fair for quite a while now. But I sincerely hope that the new rules will have an impact. Falling will be punished harder, I think and that‘s the way it should be. Skaters shouldn‘t be awarded for just adding the most difficult jumps in their programs even if they can‘t land them and constantly fall. Watching a beautiful, clean, emotional and artistic skate is just so much more enjoyable than a skate packed with difficult transitions, jumps and spins but constant falls on the harder elements. For me, it‘s always clean over difficult and that‘s why I usually avoid watching men‘s skating. The focus on quads doesn‘t do the sport any good. But well, at least they seem to recognize it a bit. I hope the new rules will be a bit more fair, even though I‘m not all that confident about this, to be true.

 

[frallik]

2017/18 Wakaba Higuchi - 6 starts, EM - 7, Kaetlyn Osmond - 8(normal number of starts per season), AZ - 10. Since August 2017 13 Winning DQ. After ECup statistical probability to fail in FS on Team OG was 50%, Personal 100%, at WCup 200%. I wrote about it in January 2018.

Refusing to participate in the WC Medvedeva exchanged the third title of world champion for a trip to Canada. By the way, I have not heard so many laudatory odes about world champion Kaetlyn as towards Medvedeva.

Katya' win was natural and fair. She is Trusova at 23.

 

[[email protected]]

That's a very special definition of the word beaten, but if you're happy with it, what can I do. Doesn't change the fact though Waka beat Alina. Just like Rika beat Waka at nationals, or Evgenia beat Caro at NHK, or Nath beat Yuzu at CoR of millions of other examples. I have no idea what you're second paragraph is supposed to get at, or what it "brings to this thread' either too

It's good that we do not have to discuss "the Russians" and reverted back to skaters. Ok, Wakaba beat Alina once. But unless Zagitova has serious health/growth issues I do not see this fact means that Wakaba is a serious threat to her at GP events. If it is the case I am sure that some people will be happy with the outcome some will do what they always do: "lowballed", "corrupt Rostelecom judging", "It's Russia", etc.

 

[Tulipstar]

Is it true our beloved Yulia and Elena are in or going to Japan? Are they doing a clinic there for their Academy? Anyone got the scope?

Thanks, we can always count on you to make threads more positive. I hope they'll do a clinic in Japan, it would be great publicity.

 

[Fluture]

2017/18 Wakaba Higuchi - 6 starts, EM - 7, Kaetlyn Osmond - 8(normal number of starts per season), AZ - 10. Since August 2017 13 Winning DQ. After ECup statistical probability to fail in FS on Team OG was 50%, Personal 100%, at WCup 200%. I wrote about it in January 2018.

Refusing to participate in the WC Medvedeva exchanged the third title of world champion for a trip to Canada. By the way, I have not heard so many laudatory odes about world champion Kaetlyn as towards Medvedeva.

Katya' win was natural and fair. She is Trusova at 23.

Where did anybody say that Kaetlyn‘s win wasn‘t fair? Unless you mean someone else but to be honest, I don‘t know a Katya who recently won Worlds.

 

[zounger]

Amy Lin, Kuchvalska, Williams, Li, Larkyn, Brezinova, McKay, Kropa ... want bigger? Konstantinova, Nagasu, Bradie. That child is stupidly talented. If you watch Senior Bs and Challengers it is really something to compare. Russia is lucky.

I was expecting some serious names there. I watch a lot of stuff.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

.

Katya' win was natural and fair. She is Trusova at 23.

There is only one Sasha .....and she does her stretching in the air! #TinyBoss
https://www.instagram.com/p/BklC505jICC/

 

[Osmond4gold]

2017/18 Wakaba Higuchi - 6 starts, EM - 7, Kaetlyn Osmond - 8(normal number of starts per season), AZ - 10. Since August 2017 13 Winning DQ. After ECup statistical probability to fail in FS on Team OG was 50%, Personal 100%, at WCup 200%. I wrote about it in January 2018.

Refusing to participate in the WC Medvedeva exchanged the third title of world champion for a trip to Canada. By the way, I have not heard so many laudatory odes about world champion Kaetlyn as towards Medvedeva.

Katya' win was natural and fair. She is Trusova at 23.

Whada? Kaetlyn won by 13 points over her next competitor. I don't remember anyone saying her WC was not 'natural and fair', as you state.

 

[zounger]

This thread is like returning to school after summer vacation with all the different people meeting again. I love it.

 

[yoloaxel]

For me, Russia has probably the greatest overall talent in female skating we've seen in quite a while in Kostornaya. The trouble is exactly in stuff like this. In the best case scenario, Kostornaya will draw equal to similar PCS as Alina, when right now, already, she's better. She is better than a great deal of current seniors, so I am not just talking about Alina either. But we need proper scores in order to reflect true quality which exists. It exists in Russia itself.
And 69.87 PCS for that performance at Worlds hurts skating. It hurts Russian skating too.

Yup, I agree with this 100%. Alina's PCS made no sense throughout the whole season - and I believe Zhenya's PCS were already too high, mind you, they left them absolutely no room for actual improvement, which will be a problem for both of them as ladies with higher TES will turn senior.

I also agree that Kostornaya truly is such a talent, and the fact that she only beat Trusova in PCS by one point at Jr Worlds is just...??? Why.