2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[LRK]

(also bringing virtual smelling salts & fan - proceeds to fan vigorously)

 

[katymay]

I think its human nature to root for the underdog and especially to hope for a comeback story. And the thing about being "king of the hill" - everyone is trying to tear you down. You rivals want to dethrone you and the rest of the world wants to pick apart and criticize everything.

On a slightly different note, I'm wondering why people use Turzynbaeva's career in criticizing Orser? She started with Eteri and then moved to Orser and back to Eteri, correct? I'm not sure how long she was with each of them but she was 11th in the world under Orser. She had some really good skates early this year, but that was only a couple months after moving back to Eteri, and I don't see her breaking into the top ten in the world this year. Just saying I'm not sure why everyone thinks that Orser was so bad for her. Also, Daleman earned a bronze at Worlds while under Orser and also has an Olympic gold medal (even if she underperformed she still a gold medalist).

I think the problem with Orser is he is stretched too thin. Perhaps the greatest thing about skating there is training with the best of the best. It is sort of like going to Harvard. The education at Harvard probably isn't any better than the education you get at Big State U., but it is the environment, and the other students there who inspire you to success. The same can be said of Eteri. The best of the best train there. I think though, that people leave because, just like they leave Orser, because what is missing is individual attention. I'm not sure any coach can really handle too many superstars. And on this subject, while this is only UNFOUNDED RUMOR, I keep hearing that Korstanaya is leaving Eteri.

 

[melgirl25]

I have a different theory. They had a strategic review: "what do we need to get back on top?" Quads and 3A were put out of question. Then the decision was to focus on 2A which had been the only issue and to bring 3 lutzes working on the edge at the same time. The idea was: "we are still the leaders in pcs, Zagitova won't have the same backloading advantage, lutz was called ! at the worst so that the game is worth playing". The fundamental mistake in this approach was made because Orser is not the top ladies' coach and Eteri is. Eteri's team knows how to milk every possible point and still they did not bring more than 1 lutz to Evgeniya's programs. And this 1 lutz was her first single jump in the free. One of the most obvious explanations is that Medvedeva is not comfortable doing lutzes and her edge is getting worse towards the end of the program when she is getting tired. Now, she had a pause, she had an injury, she moved to a different country and completely new environment. I think it was a very unwise decision to bring 3 lutzes to her layout under such circumstances.

France will tell a lot. I see 3 scenarios, 2 positive and 1 negative: 1) she nails lutzes with not more than 1 ! (second one in the free program) and she skates clean. Then she is a hero and Orser is a visionary 2) she reverts to her former layout with 1 lutz. Then she is smart and Orser is wise to admit mistakes and to adjust 3) she keeps her layout and gets "business as usual": 2! and 1e. Then they are both stubborn and would rather lose than admit that they were wrong.

I disagree. I don't think they had a pow wow on how to beat Zagitova this season. Why would they bank on her PCS and try two new styles of music. I think this season is about experimenting, working on foundation and not expecting to win every title along the way - as per Brian and Evgenia. They are hoping to fix the lutz edge and practicing it in competition is the best way to do this. I think this plan was fine until Zhenya bombed her short program at Skate Canada. I think that was unexpected and now the idea of keeping 3 lutzes in the programs in France is being relooked at. She has some points to make up. If we see any changes in her layout in France, it will be to increase the odds of her getting a score of 213+ and get that spot.

 

[IceBallerina]

I think the problem with Orser is he is stretched too thin. Perhaps the greatest thing about skating there is training with the best of the best. It is sort of like going to Harvard. The education at Harvard probably isn't any better than the education you get at Big State U., but it is the environment, and the other students there who inspire you to success. The same can be said of Eteri. The best of the best train there. I think though, that people leave because, just like they leave Orser, because what is missing is individual attention. I'm not sure any coach can really handle too many superstars. And on this subject, while this is only UNFOUNDED RUMOR, I keep hearing that Korstanaya is leaving Eteri.

What? I haven't heard anything of the sort, where are you hearing that?

Anyways, I am 99% sure it's not true. Especially to leave mid-season, right before the JGPF, there's no way.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

What? I haven't heard anything of the sort, where are you hearing that?

Anyways, I am 99% sure it's not true. Especially to leave mid-season, right before the JGPF, there's no way.

And she looked really happy and contented at stage 4. Where would she go? Right now, she could only go to someone in Sambo 70, which would leave Tsareva as the only elite coach for someone of her caliber. And we've seen what happened with Dasha, and with Anna when she had her back issues.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/zhenachampion/2244184.html

just leaving this here
some baby Zhenya and baby Yulia for you all

:agree:

 

[leilaraj]

I think the problem with Orser is he is stretched too thin. Perhaps the greatest thing about skating there is training with the best of the best. It is sort of like going to Harvard. The education at Harvard probably isn't any better than the education you get at Big State U., but it is the environment, and the other students there who inspire you to success. The same can be said of Eteri. The best of the best train there. I think though, that people leave because, just like they leave Orser, because what is missing is individual attention. I'm not sure any coach can really handle too many superstars. And on this subject, while this is only UNFOUNDED RUMOR, I keep hearing that Korstanaya is leaving Eteri.

Where do you keep hearing that?
I think it would not be wise to change coaches before her senior debut

 

[Ziotic]

And she looked really happy and contented at stage 4. Where would she go? Right now, she could only go to someone in Sambo 70, which would leave Tsareva as the only elite coach for someone of her caliber. And we've seen what happened with Dasha, and with Anna when she had her back issues.

I don’t think she’s leave mid season, but I would bet big money she leaves this off season.

 

[leilaraj]

And she looked really happy and contented at stage 4. Where would she go? Right now, she could only go to someone in Sambo 70, which would leave Tsareva as the only elite coach for someone of her caliber. And we've seen what happened with Dasha, and with Anna when she had her back issues.

Yes but look where Dascha and Polina (and perhaps zhenya) are now..

 

[tokoyami]

I have a different theory. They had a strategic review: "what do we need to get back on top?" Quads and 3A were put out of question. Then the decision was to focus on 2A which had been the only issue and to bring 3 lutzes working on the edge at the same time. The idea was: "we are still the leaders in pcs, Zagitova won't have the same backloading advantage, lutz was called ! at the worst so that the game is worth playing". The fundamental mistake in this approach was made because Orser is not the top ladies' coach and Eteri is. Eteri's team knows how to milk every possible point and still they did not bring more than 1 lutz to Evgeniya's programs. And this 1 lutz was her first single jump in the free. One of the most obvious explanations is that Medvedeva is not comfortable doing lutzes and her edge is getting worse towards the end of the program when she is getting tired. Now, she had a pause, she had an injury, she moved to a different country and completely new environment. I think it was a very unwise decision to bring 3 lutzes to her layout under such circumstances.

France will tell a lot. I see 3 scenarios, 2 positive and 1 negative: 1) she nails lutzes with not more than 1 ! (second one in the free program) and she skates clean. Then she is a hero and Orser is a visionary 2) she reverts to her former layout with 1 lutz. Then she is smart and Orser is wise to admit mistakes and to adjust 3) she keeps her layout and gets "business as usual": 2! and 1e. Then they are both stubborn and would rather lose than admit that they were wrong.

holy conspiracy theory batman!

 

[tokoyami]

I think the problem with Orser is he is stretched too thin. Perhaps the greatest thing about skating there is training with the best of the best. It is sort of like going to Harvard. The education at Harvard probably isn't any better than the education you get at Big State U., but it is the environment, and the other students there who inspire you to success. The same can be said of Eteri. The best of the best train there. I think though, that people leave because, just like they leave Orser, because what is missing is individual attention. I'm not sure any coach can really handle too many superstars. And on this subject, while this is only UNFOUNDED RUMOR, I keep hearing that Korstanaya is leaving Eteri.

this reaction is so strange to me . . . which of orser's students are doing poorly thus far? Jason B and Evgenia came back with great freeskates in SC, Jun Hwan Cha has been extraordinarily consistent, Yuzuru is yuzuru . . . I don't see any sign of B Orser failing in his coaching.

I have another conspiracy theory for you all, and it's one that's been said a million times - Evgenia is putting two lutzes in her Free in order to have a chance to work on them more in competition. Skaters and coaches have had interviews saying that you revert to bad habits in competition. Is it a sound strategy for someone looking to win everything all the time? No, but her team has said repeatedly that this is not their goal. Don't know why people have such a hard time with this and feel the need to bring up crazy theories that have no place here

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

this reaction is so strange to me . . .

I think people on both sides of this discussion need to be patient with each other. Zhenya has never looked so beatable with a program layout that frankly exposes her to the judges. Like where did her awesome skating skills disappear to? People who have followed her for several seasons aren’t used to this. I do think we should give her patience too and see where it goes because I think she looks safe to make the national team this year but she’s going to have to be much better next year or she’s going to put the Fed in an awkward position..

I hope she finds herself but I wouldn’t guarantee success anymore than I would ever consider betting against her but I don’t really think passionate reactions are so strange. Zhenya has inspired a lot of posters in this thread and that inspiration can create emotions.

 

[macy]

I don’t think she’s leave mid season, but I would bet big money she leaves this off season.

What's your reasoning for this? i'm confused...

 

[tokoyami]

I think people on both sides of this discussion need to be patient with each other. Zhenya has never looked so beatable with a program layout that frankly exposes her to the judges. Like where did her awesome skating skills disappear to? People who have followed her for several seasons aren’t used to this. I do think we should give her patience too and see where it goes because I think she looks safe to make the national team this year but she’s going to have to be much better next year or she’s going to put the Fed in an awkward position..

I hope she finds herself but I wouldn’t guarantee success anymore than I would ever consider betting against her but I don’t really think passionate reactions are so strange. Zhenya has inspired a lot of posters in this thread and that inspiration can create emotions.

I understand where you're coming from and can appreciate your opinion! However in regards to the skating skills, I think a lot of what you're saying is subjective. For example, I think Zhenya's SS have visibly improved. There's more flow and ice coverage and she doesn't muscle her jumps or transitions as much as she used to. Of course she has less transitions now and her long program is pretty banal, but her SS imo has gotten better. I know a lot of you have follow zhenya for a looong time and admittedly, I haven't really - but I don't necessarily care too much one way or the other regarding the ladies. But maybe this makes me more objective than some of the die hard fans that are immovable from their perspective of her.

I agree in that passionate responses are warranted. What's not warranted is being toxic, calling her coaches or her team a failure, saying that her jumps have 'deteriorated', saying that she has no career now, etc etc

And even if it were warranted, haven't there been hundreds of posts already declaring these things?? So what's the point of constantly bringing it up?? It's gotten to the point of people bringing her down any time someone either compliments her or talks about Eteri or Alina. I just don't know why people have to be so ruthless to this poor girl ya know?

 

[Amei]

Where do you keep hearing that?
I think it would not be wise to change coaches before her senior debut

If she decides to change coaches she could always decide to stay back in Juniors for another year, it would give her a chance to get acclimated to a new coach plus give her the opportunity to win the major junior titles. She's really good but if Anna and Alexandra are throwing down quads and she's not, she's unlikely to win gold at the 1 of the big 3: JGPF, nationals or Jr Worlds

 

[j00mla]

If she decides to change coaches she could always decide to stay back in Juniors for another year, it would give her a chance to get acclimated to a new coach plus give her the opportunity to win the major junior titles. She's really good but if the 2 Anna's are throwing down quads and she's not, she's unlikely to win gold at the 1 of the big 3: JGPF, nationals or Jr Worlds

LOL, what are you doing in Russian Ladies thread?

 

[j00mla]

And she looked really happy and contented at stage 4. Where would she go? Right now, she could only go to someone in Sambo 70, which would leave Tsareva as the only elite coach for someone of her caliber. And we've seen what happened with Dasha, and with Anna when she had her back issues.

There is no Tsareva in Sambo-70, I suspect. She is in Kudriavtsev' Academy now http://www.tdfk.ru/ice-academy/coaches/
(Panenkova announced it weeks ago)

 

[Amei]

LOL, what are you doing in Russian Ladies thread?

Not sure what you mean by that response...

 

[Ziotic]

What's your reasoning for this? i'm confused...

My reasoning is that’s she’s definitely not top dog amongst her peers. She seems to be experiencing puberty the most of the 3A. She was visibly emotional at her last JGP.

Eteri method is cut throat, especially if you aren’t the #1 priority. I could completely understand her wanting a different training environment in the near future.

 

[Ziotic]

Not sure what you mean by that response...

I think they are just trying to (rudely) note that it’s Anna and Alexandra that are doing quads.