2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[lavoix]

Evgenia's lutz didn't get called in the free program. I can't tell what's a good edge for the lutz, but I recon that it was pretty ok.

I've always maintained that Evghenia should have skipped the first half of the season (minus a few small competitions here and there). My worry is that these past few competitions will be a mental block.

I don't think missing the GPF is such a big issue. But I hope they use time before Russian nationals to really focus on her jumps now. It's a bit of a shame to see her fall like Daleman. That's the part of Evgenia I miss most and it's unusual for me to see such meltdowns on the ice.

 

[zanadude]

Sorry, I am out of it. When someone asks if they are on the same level I was not thinking in those terms.

What terms were you thinking of?

Looking at both skaters objectively, they look to be on the same level in any current terms you wish to use.

 

[melgirl25]

What terms were you thinking of?

Looking at both skaters objectively, they look to be on the same level in any current terms you wish to use.

I meant in terms of career and what they have accomplished so far. Excuse me for misreading it. As I said earlier, I'm out of it - like my mind didn't immediately go to the numbers, which indeed are the same. Believe me, I am not trying to start an argument or debate.

 

[neusw]

Evgenia's lutz didn't get called in the free program. I can't tell what's a good edge for the lutz, but I recon that it was pretty ok.

I've always maintained that Evghenia should have skipped the first half of the season (minus a few small competitions here and there). My worry is that these past few competitions will be a mental block.

I don't think missing the GPF is such a big issue. But I hope they use time before Russian nationals to really focus on her jumps now. It's a bit of a shame to see her fall like Daleman. That's the part of Evgenia I miss most and it's unusual for me to see such meltdowns on the ice.

It looked pretty similar to what was called as ! in the SP and at SC. They are most assuredly focused on the jumps, there just hasn’t been enough time to stabilize everything and see results. It’s as much a mental adjustment as anything. And given that, it might have made sense for her to take half a season off. Olympic medalists do it all the time in the post-Olympic season with little loss in reputation or standing. But it sounds like this has been a more difficult transition than either she or Brian anticipated.

 

[moriel]

Feedback from russian folks so far:
(partials translations because lazy)

Trankov: http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...zhno-ne-evgeniyu-a-ee-trenera-orsera-1482888/
"a bad competiton, but on the other hand, possibly, this will allow her to prepare more calmly for the Russian Nationals. And in Saransk, Zhenya Medvedeva that we are used to see and for whom we have cheered for several years will return."
"we can critique not Medvedeva, but Orser" "Questions should be made to the coaching team, more than to Zhenya herself, because I know she is a very hard worker, well behaved and disciplined".
"For me, Medvedeva does not look like that light Zhenya that we are used to. So far she looks a bit heavy while skating and while executing jumps".

TAT: http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...roizvolnoy-programmy-video-instagram-1482956/
"Those are different things to win when you are 16, and win against yourself when you are 19. She needs time. Thank you very much, dear french audience, for the support! The audience is not made only of our angry journalists."
"I asked Orser, why didn't you bring her to Moscow to acclimatize? But foreigners say they don't do acclimatizing"
(she probably meants something like Raf did with Nathan, where Nathan went to Moscow and then to France, which means less jet lag and so on).

Butyrskaya: http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...pri-francii-obzor-vystupleniya-video-1482885/
"Probably she shouldn't do the new combination - double axel and triple loop. It is something new, unexplored for her. It should be tested on other competitions to be executed with confidence. And here it was the first element, which she messed up"
"She should have done what she knows, skate a clean FS like she did in Canada. It is understandable that she wants to risc and to try, but maybe it was not needed today"
"Her technique didn't change much. I don't see a major change. I think that the training process is different. Each coach has his own view. Maybe, at this point, training with Eteri Tutberidze suited her"
"Maybe she is not yet feeling the new training style, maybe she is still in process. Its all new, and she needs to get used to it. So far, we see no super team. We believe in Zhenya's character. She is a fighter, she knows what she wants."
"It is very simple to overcome this - when you don't blame someone around, but blame only yourself. You understand that didn't do something, didn't work enough, that something must be changed about the training.[...] If she was 100% prepared, then also in the free she would have showed all she is capable of. So far, it is not there. But there is nothing terrible about it, Zhenya must understand that life doesn't end here"

Daniil Gleikhengauz: https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1069039723.html
"I would also like to support Zhenya Medvedeva and wish her luck on her next competitions"

 

[chopinskate]

Her jumps and skating look heavier because she's learning to use her legs to navigate and jump instead of her upper body. It's just not there yet.

But honestly, complete meh on her not making it. Her competitive grit is great and she could skate to beat, and I appreciate that she wants to continue and has recognized she needs to make changes to do that, but just has been completely uninteresting to watch since her 2016 worlds LP.

Good luck to her, though.

 

[PiggytailProdigy]

Feedback from russian folks so far:
(partials translations because lazy)

Trankov: http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...zhno-ne-evgeniyu-a-ee-trenera-orsera-1482888/
"a bad competiton, but on the other hand, possibly, this will allow her to prepare more calmly for the Russian Nationals. And in Saransk, Zhenya Medvedeva that we are used to see and for whom we have cheered for several years will return."
"we can critique not Medvedeva, but Orser" "Questions should be made to the coaching team, more than to Zhenya herself, because I know she is a very hard worker, well behaved and disciplined".
"For me, Medvedeva does not look like that light Zhenya that we are used to. So far she looks a bit heavy while skating and while executing jumps".

TAT: http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...roizvolnoy-programmy-video-instagram-1482956/
"Those are different things to win when you are 16, and win against yourself when you are 19. She needs time. Thank you very much, dear french audience, for the support! The audience is not made only of our angry journalists."
"I asked Orser, why didn't you bring her to Moscow to acclimatize? But foreigners say they don't do acclimatizing"
(she probably meants something like Raf did with Nathan, where Nathan went to Moscow and then to France, which means less jet lag and so on).

Butyrskaya: http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...pri-francii-obzor-vystupleniya-video-1482885/
"Probably she shouldn't do the new combination - double axel and triple loop. It is something new, unexplored for her. It should be tested on other competitions to be executed with confidence. And here it was the first element, which she messed up"
"She should have done what she knows, skate a clean FS like she did in Canada. It is understandable that she wants to risc and to try, but maybe it was not needed today"
"Her technique didn't change much. I don't see a major change. I think that the training process is different. Each coach has his own view. Maybe, at this point, training with Eteri Tutberidze suited her"
"Maybe she is not yet feeling the new training style, maybe she is still in process. Its all new, and she needs to get used to it. So far, we see no super team. We believe in Zhenya's character. She is a fighter, she knows what she wants."
"It is very simple to overcome this - when you don't blame someone around, but blame only yourself. You understand that didn't do something, didn't work enough, that something must be changed about the training.[...] If she was 100% prepared, then also in the free she would have showed all she is capable of. So far, it is not there. But there is nothing terrible about it, Zhenya must understand that life doesn't end here"

Daniil Gleikhengauz: https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1069039723.html
"I would also like to support Zhenya Medvedeva and wish her luck on her next competitions"

well i don't care about all that fuss but Daniil seems like a well-educated young man

 

[plushyfan]

Zhenya just a young girl who knows little about real life. The TAT&company and the agent are guilty, these people sent her on the wrong path and she lost a very important time for nothing

I don't understand your post. TAT is ridiculously supportive with her. And what is her agant? Are you talking about Zakarian? He has nothing to do with this situation..

 

[plushyfan]

3) What is her team strategy? What they said so far made no sense to me. Rework the basics? Why? How many points will it add to her 236 Olympic performance? My answer is it will add nothing. I told it more than once and will tell again: the only major tech improvement one could think about is to fix lutz edge, then to replace flip with lutz, add Loop combo. This could take 18 months for sure. What did they do in fact? Not fixing anything they immediately brought 3 lutzes. Now they rush to bring flip back but working on lutz apparently deteriorated her flip.

.

This!!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup: This is what I asked from myself from the beginning since she moved to BOrser! Her PCS scores were in the sky in the past, too.. She received almost 10 points she couldn't receive 11 after BOrser's work! Why that is the most important? They couldn't recieve much more points and beat the other technicly strong Russians with it!

 

[chopinskate]

This!!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup: This is what I asked from myself from the begging since she moved to BOrser! Her PCS scores were in the sky in the past, too.. She received almost 10 points she couldn't received 11 after BOrser's work! Why that is the most important? They couldn't recieve much more points and beat the other technicly strong Russians with it!

To you and Samkrut:

It is important because she wants to continue. I know the two of you often see zero flaws in her skating, but ever since her growth spurt and injury last season, her jumps AND her skating skills had started to give way. This was due to Eteri's signature style of always leading the jumps and skating by the upper body instead of the legs, which works when you're lighter. Notice especially how her SS deteriorated compared to her 2016 worlds showing.

Notice ESPECIALLY now how Zagitova is having similar problems.

If she wanted to continue, reworking the technique would be the better way to do it, because no way can she be 16 again.

 

[plushyfan]

To you and Samkrut:

It is important because she wants to continue. I know the two of you often see zero flaws in her skating, but ever since her growth spurt and injury last season, her jumps AND her skating skills had started to give way. This was due to Eteri's signature style of always leading the jumps and skating by the upper body instead of the legs, which works when you're lighter. Notice especially how her SS deteriorated compared to her 2016 worlds showing.

Notice ESPECIALLY now how Zagitova is having similar problems.

If she wanted to continue, reworking the technique would be the better way to do it, because no way can she be 16 again.

I can't argue with you because I'm just a Fs fan. But remember her skate at OG. She was fantastic and she received high scores! And she moved to BOrser some months later...I couldn't see that problem what you mentioned. I just hope you are right because of Zhenya. It's was so sad to see her in France.

 

[starla16]

To you and Samkrut:

It is important because she wants to continue. I know the two of you often see zero flaws in her skating, but ever since her growth spurt and injury last season, her jumps AND her skating skills had started to give way. This was due to Eteri's signature style of always leading the jumps and skating by the upper body instead of the legs, which works when you're lighter. Notice especially how her SS deteriorated compared to her 2016 worlds showing.

Notice ESPECIALLY now how Zagitova is having similar problems.

If she wanted to continue, reworking the technique would be the better way to do it, because no way can she be 16 again.

my dear, Zagitova has powerful legs and if you look at her jump landings and take off she uses her legs more than her upper body, Medvedeva and Zagitova are not built the same physically, Medvedeva always had poor skating skills this was a critique since her junior years.

 

[chopinskate]

Zagitova has powerful legs and if you look at her jump landings and take off she uses her legs more than her upper body, Medvedeva and Zagitova are not built the same physically, Medvedeva always had poor skating skills this was a critique since her junior years.

Zagitova doing "more" with her legs still doesn't mean she does what is ideal or even close to ideal.

Surely you noticed her choppier basics and the way her jumps are starting to appear more and more forced this season?

 

[starla16]

Zagitova doing "more" with her legs still doesn't mean she does what is ideal or even close to ideal.

Surely you noticed her choppier basics and the way her jumps are starting to appear more and more forced this season?

she has very complex step sequences and its fast which gets level 4s, I didnt notice its choppy
while her jumps appear to be more laborous now since she she grew and gained some. The same for Medvedeva she grew and gained but where are the jumps now ?

 

[bobbob]

To you and Samkrut:

It is important because she wants to continue. I know the two of you often see zero flaws in her skating, but ever since her growth spurt and injury last season, her jumps AND her skating skills had started to give way. This was due to Eteri's signature style of always leading the jumps and skating by the upper body instead of the legs, which works when you're lighter. Notice especially how her SS deteriorated compared to her 2016 worlds showing.

Notice ESPECIALLY now how Zagitova is having similar problems.

If she wanted to continue, reworking the technique would be the better way to do it, because no way can she be 16 again.

I agree that worlds 2017, not 2016, (or actually World Team Trophy 2017) was the pinnacle of Evgenia's skating. I still rewatch her 2017 WTT performance occasionally. Last season she had a couple of injuries which hindered her performances, but her skating skills were still the same (excellent flow transitions and movement), a couple of jumps were not as solid due to injury/lack of training (not so sure about growth spurt). Only this season, we have seen a deterioration of skating skills AND a total loss of most of her jumps including a stable triple triple, triple flip, and triple loop. Although it is said she is doing them fine in practice, I don't see that either, they look much worse than before... if the different between 2017 Evgenia and 2018 Evgenia was 10 to 8 (rather minute), this year she went from an 8 to a -10.

Evgenia was still very good, if not excellent, at Olympics last year, let's not forget that. And Alina is still, overall, doing very well right now considering her growth spurt, the worst of which has already past I'm guessing (she is also doing much better this season than she did at the same events last season...). I don't think Evgenia last season or Alina this season performances were statistically significant indicators of a major flaw in technique, they were both coping with injury/changes, and will/would have improved with more training. OTOH, Evgenia this season definitely is...

 

[chopinskate]

Evgenia was still very good, if not excellent, at Olympics last year, let's not forget that.

I haven't forgotten the flaws in her skating technique at all there. She showed great mental grit: the same thing she's showing again this year, but it's hard to be consistent when you're relearning basics. Or learning real basics.

I don't think Evgenia last season or Alina this season performances were statistically significant indicators of a major flaw in technique, they were both coping with injury/changes, and will/would have improved with more training. OTOH, Evgenia this season definitely is...

A huge logical fallacy. Good performances aren't an indicator of good skating technique, and bad performances aren't indicators poor skating technique. There's a lot else that goes into it.

People with trained eyes can definitely see these flaws though, and can judge what's happening out on the ice.

 

[EdRoz]

I don't understand your post. TAT is ridiculously supporting with her. And what is her agant? Are you talking about Zakarian? He has nothing to do with this situation..

Reg. TAT and her support of coach changing (everybody knows she hates Eteri, no matter what she says in the interview).

As an advisor to the Russian national team she should know Brian's policies and methods,
democracy and freedom in training is unacceptable for Zhenya.
Eteri said once- " Zhenya has no talent, only hard daily work has made her a great, push the limits every day" ,
Brian does not require this, it is not his style . And we see the result .

Reg.agent Zakarian

Who pushed the young girl to lie in the interview?
everyone remembered her words -" I stay with Eteri forever and do not want to change anything ".

etc..etc ..etc

 

[Reddi]

well i don't care about all that fuss but Daniil seems like a well-educated young man

He was one of the best amongst the guest commentators at the Grand Prix series by the way. I'm glad they invited him.

A huge logical fallacy. Good performances aren't an indicator of good skating technique, and bad performances aren't indicators poor skating technique. There's a lot else that goes into it.
People with trained eyes can definitely see these flaws though and can judge what's happening out on the ice.

In other words: flaw impact on a skater career can vary from a determinative to a basically omissible.

 

[starla16]

Eteri said once- " Zhenya has no talent, only hard daily work has made her a great, push the limits every day" ,
Brian does not require this, it is not his style . And we see the result .

though not best talent, I agree Medvedeva is an example of hard work over talent. In her junior years, she was the lesser talent amongst other russian top junior peers but Eteri rave about her being a hard worker.

 

[bobbob]

A huge logical fallacy. Good performances aren't an indicator of good skating technique, and bad performances aren't indicators poor skating technique. There's a lot else that goes into it.

People with trained eyes can definitely see these flaws though, and can judge what's happening out on the ice.

Did you even read what I said...I said I DO NOT think their performances were indicators of their changes in technique or lack thereof.

However, Evgenia's technique right now is the worst it is ever been, that is partently obvious, just analyze different aspects of her skating. Her lutz technique is not really improved, her jump technique is out of control, she does not have control over her edges in the step sequence and movement throughout, her spin positions are not held properly, the list goes on.