- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
I think Kostornaia could be at risk if she loses to Tarakanova and/or Kanysheva at either JGPF or nationals.
2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
Unfortunately, that‘s what I think, too. Tarakananova and Kanysheva have a very similar layout to hers in BV, so she can‘t make any mistakes. Shcherbakova and Trusova are basically set in stone already (again, unless someone bombs badly) due to their multiple quads. The last spot comes down to who is the cleanest. I hope Alena won‘t be cut off the team as for me she is the one of the current juniors who is the most balanced, regarding skating skills, interpretation, jumps and spins. She might not be as good at jumps as Sasha or as good at interpretating every nuance of the music as Anna but she is well-rounded and imo, has it all. But that might be just me.
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I hope you‘re right!!
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2018
Just a quick note that Tarakanova was completely clean at Nationals except for maybe a tight landing on her opening 3Lz. She had actually upgraded since the JGPF in order to move her +3T combo into the second half. The judges killed her on GOEs (not just on her jumps but also on her spins which earlier in the season had always qualified for bonus points).
Tarakanova was actually the only one of the three JGP medalists to go clean at Nationals. Alena had a fall on her 3Lz in the SP, Sasha fell and under-rotated her 4S in the FS, but at that point it didn't matter. The Fed already knew they were only sending two Eteri girls (and which Eteri girls they wanted to send) and they scored accordingly.
Protocols are here: https://www.fsrussia.ru/results/1718/junnat1718/e_K_Scores.pdf (SP) https://www.fsrussia.ru/results/1718/junnat1718/e__Scores.pdf (FS).
It's quite sad actually. Tarakanova was the only Russian girl to get scored lower domestically at Junior Nats than she had been internationally at the JGPF. Viktoria Vasilieva on the other hand (who finished above Nastya at Nats) scores 4 points higher at Nationals than she did at any other point in the season despite falling in the Free Skate.
This year? 90% Yes.
Anna and Sasha have quads and Alena's PCS is too high to leave her at home. The only way that would change would be due to extreme inconsistency from one of three at both Junior Grand Prix Final AND Junior Nats (most likely Alena because I think they'd take still the risk for Sasha/Anna because QUADS) or if Tarakanova (or Tarusina or Vasilieva) was able to put a quad in her program before Junior Nats (again quite unlikely). And tbh I think they'd still go with Alena over a Tarakanova/Tarusina/Vasilieva 4T so long as she is still clean at both JGPF and Junior Nats.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
Again, why so many reasonable people are burying Alyona Kostornaia fortnight before JGPF. I'm not saying Tarakanova can't beat her, the field is so strong that anybody of the girls could be beaten if she makes single mistake, but why exactly her. Alyona was very strong at her last domestic competition not very far from even Trusova (she had even beaten her in SP) and she makes mistakes very rarely (in Ostrava she was sick, yet her score was still better than both scores of Nastya during JGP). I know that Nastya is training quads already but we don't know if she will put tem into program.
The thing that takes my interest more is if Alyona will put 3A into program. Probably not, as we have no info about her progress in it, but I still hope for some surprise
The thing that takes my interest more is if Alyona will put 3A into program. Probably not, as we have no info about her progress in it, but I still hope for some surprise
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2018
Tarakanova and Kanysheva actually have a higher BV than Kostornaya. Not being able to repeat her 3Lz/do a 3Lo combo really hurts Kostornaia in comparison (they repeat 3Lz and 3F whilst she repeats 3F and 3T). Tarakanova has also swapped out her 2T for a 2Lo which gives her a slight edge over Kanysheva.
This season it's really been Kostornaya's GOEs and PCS that have kept her ahead of Kanysheva and Tarakanova and honestly I don't expect that to change unless the Fed decides to completely drop her at Junior Nats (which I really don't think they will!)
I'm surprised people keep burying Kostornaia. Based on what we seen this season, clean Alena would score like 10 points above rest of the junior field, including Nastya, and except Sasha and Anya. This actually means that Alena could even afford a mistake or two and still be third.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2018
I'm not burying Kostornaya??? I think she 95% will be on the Junior Worlds Team and honestly I can't give better odds than that because Junior Nats is still over two months away and I can't tell the future!
Exactly which is why I said IF Tarakanova (or Tarusina or Vasilieva) can add a 4T then they MIGHT be able to play spoiler. Not that any of them will be able to add a quad or even if they will be able to catch 3A with said quad.*
The thing that takes my interest more is if Alyona will put 3A into program. Probably not, as we have no info about her progress in it, but I still hope for some surprise
I definitely don't think we'll see it at the JGPF (though I'm always happy to be surprised!) but again it could very well be in her FS by Junior Nats (which like I said above is a full two months away).
*I mention Tarakanova/Tarusina/Vasilieva here because they are all known to be training quads. Of course if someone like Chistyakova suddenly appeared at Nationals with a quad then this would apply to her too but I don't think it's very likely.....actually is Chistyakova qualified to nationals at all?? Where did she go after junior test skates?
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
Okay, wow. I totally didn‘t remember that. I wasn‘t following juniors too closely last year so I basically just looked up the results of junior Nationals, seeing Nastya in 7th and thought she didn‘t do well. I mean, what use would there be for them to score a JGPF bronze medalist so low?? I have to watch her FS again because that just looks so... wrong.
Again, why so many reasonable people are burying Alyona Kostornaia fortnight before JGPF. I'm not saying Tarakanova can't beat her, the field is so strong that anybody of the girls could be beaten if she makes single mistake, but why exactly her. Alyona was very strong at her last domestic competition not very far from even Trusova (she had even beaten her in SP) and she makes mistakes very rarely (in Ostrava she was sick, yet her score was still better than both scores of Nastya during JGP). I know that Nastya is training quads already but we don't know if she will put tem into program.
The thing that takes my interest more is if Alyona will put 3A into program. Probably not, as we have no info about her progress in it, but I still hope for some surprise
I‘m not burying Alena by any means, she is my favourite junior skater after all. I just know rusfed prefers the skaters with the higher BV (which is logical, they are the most likely to win after all, even if they fall), so Anna and Sasha really have the edge here. They can fall on their quad and still get a high score. I’d say barring any mistakes they are pretty secured to take 1, 2 at Nationals and GPF. Alena is a beautifuk skater. She has many wonderful qualities and she has the consistency bonus. You can usually count on her not making too many mistakes. But she has a pretty low BV, so she HAS to be clean at both JGPF and Nationals. I hope she will and I certainly trust in her. The trend of not sending three Eteri girls to worlds scares me, however. Alena has a reputation and she’s already senior nationals bronze medalist so it’s kind of harder to just lowball her in PCS or GOE but still... I’m admittedly worrying a bit because from the wonder trio she is the most vulnerable in my eyes. Not because she significantly lacks in anything but because she misses a quad the other two girls have. And you just can‘t fight multiple quads with only beautiful skating skills and clean triples. I wish it was possible but alas, it isn‘t.
About her 3A... I‘m very sceptical. I‘d be so happy if she landed it at GPF but it would be an unusual tactic for Eteri girls. They tend to try the ultra-c elements at other lower level competitions first instead of going all out at a very important one, like the JGPF. For example, Sasha first landed her 4S at a Russian Cup event last year, I believe. So, Alena not attempting a 3A at her Cup Event makes me believe she won‘t do it either at JGPF as it might just not be ready for competition. But of course, like you, I‘d like to be surprised.
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- Mar 23, 2014
Not trying to bury Kostornaia - I really think it's very unlikely that she doesn't make the team, but she's more at risk than Trusova and Shcherbakova.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2017
I'm not burying Kostornaya??? I think she 95% will be on the Junior Worlds Team and honestly I can't give better odds than that because Junior Nats is still over two months away and I can't tell the future!
Exactly which is why I said IF Tarakanova (or Tarusina or Vasilieva) can add a 4T then they MIGHT be able to play spoiler. Not that any of them will be able to add a quad or even if they will be able to catch 3A with said quad.*
I definitely don't think we'll see it at the JGPF (though I'm always happy to be surprised!) but again it could very well be in her FS by Junior Nats (which like I said above is a full two months away).
*I mention Tarakanova/Tarusina/Vasilieva here because they are all known to be training quads. Of course if someone like Chistyakova suddenly appeared at Nationals with a quad then this would apply to her too but I don't think it's very likely.....actually is Chistyakova qualified to nationals at all?? Where did she go after junior test skates?
Chistyakova hasn't skated at any events that I've seen so far...
I often see posts here saying that if and when Sasha and Anna lose their quads, Anna will be better because of her PCS, skating skills, musicality, etc. Am I the only one who disagrees with this? Based solely on the inbetween stuff, leave the quads and other jumps behind, I would prefer to watch Sasha over and over again before watching Anna. I don't understand where people think Sasha is lacking musicality? The opening of her short this year and her short step sequence are timed nicely to the music and she moves her body in a way that really connects to it IMO. Same with the moment in her long when she stops in the middle, then turns around and does a little sizzle with the music. I think it is cool and different, but just as creative and beautiful as Anna. I know they have different styles of skating, but I don't understand where people find Sasha lacking? People are probably gonna be mad at me for saying this, because there's some obsession with Anna, but I find her skating slow and choppy, especially in her long. She has the head, arms and shoulders down, so her upper body is beautiful when she skates. But her legs are stiff and her leg movements are short so it just makes things look so awkward to me. I don't see the same grace and poise in her that I see in Alena, can someone explain where they find her skating to be so superior? I still like Anna and root for her, I just don't see the angel quality everyone else does.
And to add to the current discussion, why does it have to be Alena replaced by someone else for Jr worlds, Anna often makes mistakes and I could see Tarakanova beating her at both JGPF and nationals?
And to add to the current discussion, why does it have to be Alena replaced by someone else for Jr worlds, Anna often makes mistakes and I could see Tarakanova beating her at both JGPF and nationals?
I think a significant reason people find Sasha unexpressive is because she does not have an expressive face, in contrast to Anna and Alena. She does not like to smile or emote with her face when performing. However, I find her actual body movements (especially in the dance videos) to be very expressive of the music, and her pure skating skills certainly aren't lacking in comparison to Anna's, so I agree with you.
I'm actually quite curious how I will feel after seeing all these girls live at JGPF, where I will not be sitting close enough to see facial expressions and will only be able to judge based on body movements and skating skills.
A little positive in this toxic thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guGiNHwBXi0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guGiNHwBXi0
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
So I’m not sure I agree that Alena has much facial expression. To me that’s not a bad thing either as it ranks so low on my importance scale when assessing figure skating. I find her absolute strength is her posture and poise. It’s world class. I don’t think in terms of skating skills she’s that far ahead of anyone but her poise and delivery of every movement she does are just so crisp and noticeably sharp that everything she does is enhanced by it. It’s what makes her programs look cohesive and helps to blend them together like an illusion.
The real kicker for her is the way she moves those arms. She expresses the musical phrasing with her arms so well and it gives her programs grace and elegance. See how she raises them during each musical highlight before and after jumps and during transitions. It sets her apart from not only Sasha but nearly everyone else.
https://youtu.be/EqXwhsFJmd4?t=43s
Sasha has great power though and even her basic skating is rooted in it. Pretty much her Skating Skills are always on par with Alena. Where I think Sasha falls a bit short is in Interpretation of the Music and sometimes even Performance although Sasha sometimes actually out performs her IMO. It’s why their PCS is so close! I do think Sasha brings a character and presence to her programs but not with every performance and sometimes she looks tired in the end. I’d say for Alena her only noticable weakness besides TES is she doesn’t bring as much emotion as others and relies almost solely on a delicate and confident poise that carries her mood. Any technical error or minor stumble she makes can then seem magnified because it sort of breaks the illusion.
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- Nov 22, 2015
I really like everything you say here, this is basically how I see it too! They're both wonderful skaters with such different assets. How would you compare Anna with both of them?
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- Dec 29, 2013
Not only was she expressive but her Skating Skills are on point in this performance! I’m not sure why people try to downplay the excellent quality of her steps. There is some really good stuff in there.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
The fact that Sasha lands her jumps on the music notes and does some moves in between is mostly due to the choreography itself, which is made perfectly for her, and not really due to her interpretation skills IMO. She has no natural musicality or feel for the rhythm and this can be seen in the dance videos from Zheleznyakov, especially the one with Alina and Anna, where Sasha was constantly rushing the elements and was often out of sync. But this doesn't mean that she can't develop her musicality. It's absolutely normal for a skater, especially for the youngsters, to be excellent in one department and to show some weakness in another. That's why she keeps training and training and gets better day after day. Sasha and her team are totally aware of her interpretation problem and they are working on it - she has said herself that she works on the presentation a lot despite the quads. I don't have a problem with her "emotionless" face during the free because choreographically the story is intense and is a top match for Sasha. I get even more excited when I see her concentrated look and then she nails a jump. My concern is her SP from this season and also from last year - I don't think that she's there yet to sell a more funny/playful story but they might be using this to get her out of her comforting zone and to get improve with time.
In terms of the other two from the 3A
- Sam explained what many people, me inclusively, like about Aljona. It's not really her face expression because she isn't very expressive neither but it's more about her arm movements in combination of good skating skills that make her look as if she's floating on the ice. Anna on the other note, has IMO natural feel for the rhythm, even when she makes a mistake or set ups for a quad, manages to get quickly into the music again and doesn't neglect the choreography. Her programs just feel more..natural.
In terms of the other two from the 3A
- Sam explained what many people, me inclusively, like about Aljona. It's not really her face expression because she isn't very expressive neither but it's more about her arm movements in combination of good skating skills that make her look as if she's floating on the ice. Anna on the other note, has IMO natural feel for the rhythm, even when she makes a mistake or set ups for a quad, manages to get quickly into the music again and doesn't neglect the choreography. Her programs just feel more..natural.Of course I have. Last year's SP was supposed to be fun and flirty, and is a complete departure from pretty much all her programs since she was a little kid. If you have watched any of her other programs from past years you would know that she very much prefers an intense style that does not involve smiling and playing to the crowd.
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