2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Sam-Skwantch]

The fact that Sasha lands her jumps on the music notes and does some moves in between is mostly due to the choreography itself, which is made perfectly for her, and not really due to her interpretation skills IMO. She has no natural musicality or feel for the rhythm and this can be seen in the dance videos from Zheleznyakov, especially the one with Alina and Anna, where Sasha was constantly rushing the elements and was often out of sync.
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I don’t think we can gain too much from these videos other than just for fun. We don’t know how much preperation the skaters put in to learning these at the time they are made. If one skater is out of town at an event and the others learn the movements first (even an hour extra) it could be a huge advantage. It’s just not the same IMO from what we see in a prepared solo performance. I guess you could argue that a natural ability brings quicker comfort but with the amount of training they put in I doubt it’s much of a factor when all is said and done on the ice. It’s more about their styles at that point. They all have great timing and musical comprehension. That much is clear to me.

Sasha’s SP this year displays an excellent ability to deliver textbook skating skills and choreography with the rhythm and purpose! The StSeq is really nice too but I agree she uses difficulty and power to make her presentation. Sasha isn’t here to make a pretty picture and cathartic experience. She’s here to figure skate and it’s as if she’s taking on the sport rather than entertain an audience. I think it actually works to create a tense mood that does in fact capture the attention of the crowd.

 

[esteticlove]

I don’t think we can gain too much from these videos other than just for fun. We don’t know how much preperation the skaters put in to learning these at the time they are made. If one skater is out of town at an event and the others learn the movements first (even an hour extra) it could be a huge advantage. It’s just not the same IMO from what we see in a prepared solo performance. I guess you could argue that a natural ability but with the amount of training they put in I doubt it’s much of a factor when all is said and done. It’s more about their styles at that point. They all have great timing and musical comprehension. That much is clear.

Sasha’s SP this year displays an excellent ability to deliver textbook skating skills and choreography with the rhythm and purpose! The StSeq is really nice too but I agree she uses difficulty and power to make her presentation. Sasha isn’t here to make a pretty picture and cathartic experience. She’s here to figure skate and it’s as if she’s taking on the sport rather than entertain an audience. I think it actually works to create a tense mood that does in fact capture the attention of the crowd.

I agree with the second part. She doesn't have to be playful with the crowd if the choreography doesn't require it. That doesn't mean that she is not entertainng. When she is in her intense mood, she demonstrates heavy pressance on the ice, as if we know that something epic is about to happen

 

[moriel]

Just a side note on everyboyd who is *training* quads.

Training quad is different from jumping a quad somewhat successfully in competition. By saying this I do not want to negate any girl's achievments.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I agree with the second part. She doesn't have to be playful with the crowd if the choreography doesn't require it. That doesn't mean that she is not entertainng. When she is in her intense mood, she demonstrates heavy pressance on the ice, as if we know that something epic is about to happen

Why do I get the feeling that Sasha could sell a Madonna program like Material Girl really well

https://youtu.be/6p-lDYPR2P8

Kind of like a Big Spender pt 2 just a little less controversial but still just controversial enough I see her as having the ability to be performing with charming ability. Just look at that smile during the KnC. She seems like a really fun kid and I think big spender was just a hint of what she can do in terms of performance.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Just a side note on everyboyd who is *training* quads.

Training quad is different from jumping a quad somewhat successfully in competition. By saying this I do not want to negate any girl's achievments.

Who is training a quad? Tarakanova?

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Tarakanova competed it once but it was 4T<< fall

Also 12,000 posts!

 

[serephy]

Who is training a quad? Tarakanova?

Tarusina has said that she’s training a quad and that she was trying quads in the training before Bratislava. Also the person who took the video of Tarakanova practicing her quad initially asked if people wanted to see video of Tarakanova/Tarusina trying quads though it is possible he had confused the two.

Vasilieva was also apparently trying quads in the warm up at the Inge Memorial and “wasn’t far off” according to the commentator when he brought it up after her FS (obviously we have no idea how true this is)

So Tarakanova/Tarusina/Vasilieva are all training quads as far as we know. Not sure about any others.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

:yay: 12,000 posts :yay:

 

[moriel]

Posted in quad watch, but adding it here too because 3/4 russian ladies

Just some competition numbers so far

Trusova's quads in competiton over last two seasons, with BV+GOE recalculated with current values (GOE refactored from 3 to 5 scale)
With mistakes:
2T(popped) (2018 4th Russian Cup) 0.96
4S<<fall (2017 JGP Belarus) 2.15 - 1.00(fall deduction)
4T<fall (2017 Russian Cup Final) 3.57 - 1.00(fall deduction)
4S<fall (2017 JGP Final) 3.64 - 1.00(fall deduction)
4S<fall (2017 Russian Jr Nats) 3.64 - 1.00(fall deduction)
4S<fall (2017 3rd Russian Cup) 3.64 - 1.00(fall deduction)
4Tfall (2018 JGP Lithuania) 4.75 - 1.00(fall deduction)
4S< (2017 JGP Australia) 5.89
4S< (2017 5th Russian Cup) 6.07
4Lzfall (2018 4th Russian Cup) 6.44 - 1.00(fall deduction)
4Lz< (2018 JGP Lithuania) 8.02

Clean-ish:
4T (2017-18 JWC) 10.40
4Lz (2018 JGP Armenia) 11.50
4S (2017 Russian Cup Final) 12.93
4S (2017-18 JWC) 12.93
4T+3T (2018 JGP Lithuania) 16.14
4Lz+3T (2018 4th Russian Cup) 20.30


Shcherbakova's quads in competition this season
With mistakes:
4Lz<fall (2018 JGP Canada) 4.31 - 1.00(fall deduction)
4Lz<fall (2018 4th Russian Cup) 4.31 - 1.00(fall deduction)

Clean-ish:
4Lz (2018 2nd Russian Cup) 13.11
4Lz+3T (2018 2nd Russian Cup) 14.55
4Lz+3T (2018 4th Russian Cup) 19.84


Tuktamysheva's 3As in competition this season
With mistakes:
3Afall (2018 GP Canada) 4.00 - 1.00(fall deduction)
3A (2018 CS Lombardia) 5.92

Clean-ish:
3A (2018 CS Finlandia) 7.20
3A (2018 GP NHK) 7.66
3A (2018 CS Finlandia) 7.73
3A (2018 GP Canada) 9.03
3A (2018 GP NHK) 10.06


Kihira's 3As in competition over last two seasons
With mistakes:
1A*(popped) (2018 GP France) 0.00
1A(popped) (2017 JGP Final) 1.07
1A(popped) (2017-18 JWC) 1.21
1A(popped) (2017-18 JWC) 1.27
3A<fall (2018 GP NHK) 3.00 - 1.00(fall deduction)
3Afall (2017 JGP Latvia) 4.00 - 1.00(fall deduction)
3Afall (2018 CS Nepela) 4.00 - 1.00(fall deduction)
3A< (2018 GP France) 4.97
3A (2017 JGP Italy) 5.33

Clean-ish:
3A (2018 Western Section) 8.00
3A (2017 Asian Open) 8.53
3A (2018 Western Section) 9.44
3A (2017 Jpn Nationals) 9.91
3A (2017 Jpn Nationals) 10.28
3A (2017 Jr Western Section) 10.40
3A (2018 CS Nepela) 10.40
3A (2017 Jpn Jr Nationals) 10.93
3A (2018 GP NHK) 11.09
3A+2T (2018 Western Section) 11.54
3A+3T (2018 CS Nepela) 14.44
3A+3T (2017 JGP Final) 14.68
3A+3T (2018 GP NHK) 14.83
3A+3T (2017 Jpn Nationals) 14.68
3A+3T (2017 Jr Western Section) 14.87
3A+3T+2T (2017 Jpn Jr Nationals) 16.70




Some stats

Trusova
Clean: 6 / 17 (35%)
Clean internationally: 4 / 9 (44%)
Clean this season: 3 / 7 (43%)
Clean this season internationally: 2 / 4 (50%)

Shcherbakova
Clean: 3 / 5 (60%)
Clean internationally: 0 / 1 (0%)

Kihira
Clean: 16 / 25 (64%)
Clean internationally: 6 / 15 (40%)
Clean this season: 7 / 11 (63%)
Clean this season internationally: 4 / 8 (50%)

Tuktamysheva
Clean internationally: 5 / 7 (71%)


Average Scores (fall deductions are added in)
(internationally / domestically / when clean / this season)

Trusova
4S 5.65 / 6.07 / 12.93 / ?
4T 7.08 / 1.76 / 10.4 / 4.71
4Lz 9.76 / 5.44 / 11.50 / 8.32
4T+3T 16.14 / ? / 16.14 / 16.14
4Lz+3T ? / 20.30 / 20.30 / 20.30

Shcherbakova
4Lz 3.31 / 8.21 / 13.11 / 6.58
4Lz+3T ? / 17.20 / 17.20 / 17.20

Tuktamysheva
3A 7.23 / ? / 8.33 / 7.23

Kihira
3A 4.32 / 9.83 / 9.89 / 6.11
3A+3T 14.65 / 13.70 / 14.18 / 13.60
3A+3T+2T ? / 16.70 / 16.70 / ?

 

[hippomoomin]

It does not sound realistic that Tarusina would have a quad. Both she and Sofia's jumps are small and they would be lucky to keep their current triples in two years.

Tarakanova is very likely to have a quad in the future.

Tarusina has said that she’s training a quad and that she was trying quads in the training before Bratislava. Also the person who took the video of Tarakanova practicing her quad initially asked if people wanted to see video of Tarakanova/Tarusina trying quads though it is possible he had confused the two.

Vasilieva was also apparently trying quads in the warm up at the Inge Memorial and “wasn’t far off” according to the commentator when he brought it up after her FS (obviously we have no idea how true this is)

So Tarakanova/Tarusina/Vasilieva are all training quads as far as we know. Not sure about any others.

 

[flanker]

To the "I'm not burying Alyona" posts: My original reaction was to the posts that speculated about it too deeply and for me completely unnecessarily. "If that or this happens", "that might be added" or just "but still" etc. What's that? What is the purpose? This "if" can be applied to anybody with the equal probability. Really, we can speak about the new Chelyabinsk meteor with the same seriousness. I really don't understand why exactly this is something to wory about more than many other possibilities.

As for the "politics" at junior nats. Being clean is not enogh by itself. That's by the way why US ladies figure skating is now unable to rival Russia and Japan, because they put their money on clean skate for young girls, not on the difficulty. I don't believe in any conspiracy against Tarakanova at Junior nats, that just don't make sense, even if you look at the starting numbers, thare should be obvious that judges could hardly anticipate how would particular girl skate. I saw it (admit, it is some time now), but I did not remember I would see some biased score after Nastya's skate. By the way, Nastya was ill with pneumonia at the beginning of the year so she would still not go to the Junior worlds.

Anna has higher BV than Alyona, but she is also not nearly as consistent, till now, she was able to take advantage of her layot fully only at one competition, 3rd stage of CoR, if I'm not mistaken, in other competitions where she jumped quads she had still some problems with it. Again, I remind that Alyona's total score was very high at recent competitions and she is very consistent. Not only BV could be used as a measurement and again, it was written here not only by me, Nasyta's quad is still very very unreliable and just one quad does not decide about a victory by itself even if jumped succesfully.

 

[flanker]

Tarusina has said that she’s training a quad and that she was trying quads in the training before Bratislava. Also the person who took the video of Tarakanova practicing her quad initially asked if people wanted to see video of Tarakanova/Tarusina trying quads though it is possible he had confused the two.

Vasilieva was also apparently trying quads in the warm up at the Inge Memorial and “wasn’t far off” according to the commentator when he brought it up after her FS (obviously we have no idea how true this is)

So Tarakanova/Tarusina/Vasilieva are all training quads as far as we know. Not sure about any others.

There is a difference between real (planned) training of quad and just trying. I remember one lady (US or canadian), who said in interview that nearly anybody sometimes do quads at training. that's just irresistible thing. But train it really, systematically, planning it, that is a different thing.

And I'm not saying that e. g. Tarusina would not be capable of doing it although her jumps are low. Japanese ladies have pretty low jumps too and are trying quads

 

[moriel]

There is a difference between real (planned) training of quad and just trying. I remember one lady (US or canadian), who said in interview that nearly anybody sometimes do quads at training. that's just irresistible thing. But train it really, systematically, planning it, that is a different thing.

And I'm not saying that e. g. Tarusina would not be capable of doing it although her jumps are low. Japanese ladies have pretty low jumps too and are trying quads

trying != landing successfully in competition

 

[Jontor]

A little bit off topic but important to this thread.

I sometimes find it hard to keep up with all these nicknames you guys have for all the girls. Why can't we all just call them buy their real names - Trusova, Kostornaia, Medvedeva, Zagitova etc??!!??

I know you all are like super fans e al, but pleeease, it's sometimes confusing for me to follow the very interesting conversations that's going on here...

Sorry

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

A little bit off topic but important to this thread.

I sometimes find it hard to keep up with all these nicknames you guys have for all the girls. Why can't we all just call them buy their real names - Trusova, Kostornaia, Medvedeva, Zagitova etc??!!??

I know you all are like super fans e al, but pleeease, it's sometimes confusing for me to follow the very interesting conversations that are going on here...

Sorry

well I mean most of the names we call them are their Russian diminutives (ex. Masha for Maria, Sasha for Alexandra, Nastya for Anastasia), or their preferred nicknames (ex. Janny for Evgenia, Lenok for Elena). They can be pretty easy to figure out, but I can see how it’s hard to understand. But you at least understand first names right? What’s the need for always using last names?

 

[stella luna]

Will Medvedeva's failure to make the Grand Prix finals affect whether or not she goes to Worlds? Or does she have a bye (not sure how the Russian system works)?

 

[moriel]

well I mean most of the names we call them are their Russian diminutives (ex. Masha for Maria, Sasha for Alexandra, Nastya for Anastasia), or their preferred nicknames (ex. Janny for Evgenia, Lenok for Elena). They can be pretty easy to figure out, but I can see how it’s hard to understand. But you at least understand first names right? What’s the need for always using last names?

Actually, not everybody follows closely the russian ladies, so sometimes it can be confusing (people usually know the last names). Russian diminutives are confusing for everybody, really.
Last but not least, we have tons of skaters who go by same name, see Nastya being Gubanova or Tarakanova, or Zhenya being Medvedeva or not being a russian lady at all, because that is Plushenko.

So while yep we do it, and i do it too, i understand that maybe we should stick to last names or at least use first + last name for the sake of the people who sometimes wander in.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

It doesn't preclude her either way.
But she may be at a disadvantage because three Russian ladies made the final and she was not one of them, especially if Sofia skates well again.

Like last year - Polina still had a bit of a chance despite not making the final (even was third alternate with 3+4 like Zhenya) but not much since Evgenia (though she WD), Alina, and Maria made the final. When Maria skated very well and got the silver, her cahnces were basically none. And then she singled her lutz at nationals and placed fifth compared to Maria's second (....)

 

[moriel]

Will Medvedeva's failure to make the Grand Prix finals affect whether or not she goes to Worlds? Or does she have a bye (not sure how the Russian system works)?

Somewhat.
Russian system works like this, for 3 spots: top 2 worlds eligible finishers at RusNats (because junior girls can and do compete at senior nats, and this year people even debate if a junior will win senior rusnats because quadsters), and 1 "coaches choice" (rusfed decision based on whatever reasons).
Usually, the #3 is the 3rd eligible skater at nationals. But sometimes it is applied to skaters who were injured and could not participate at rusnats (for example, Zhenya skipped nationals last year, and was selected for the Euros and Worlds and Olympic team as this third spot), or skaters who fed believes will perform better based on their body of work (or internal politiking).

Zhenya's failure to make GPF is not a big deal if she performs well at Rusnats and is among top 3 eligible finishers. Then, rusfed will send Zhenya, even if she is 3rd - despite her failures this year her body of work is much stronger than of the other girls, and there is no reason to replace her with someone else.
Now, if she bombs rusnats, for example something like 1. Zagitova 2. Tuktamysheva 3. Samodurova 4. Zhenya, Zhenya's failure to make the GPF may be actually an issue, because, for example, it would be a bit harder to justify replacing one of the Zagitova / Tuktamysheva / Samodurova, who actually made the GPF and performed well over the season, by Zhenya, who was weaked than them during the GP, and who also bombed rusnats. Of course, chances are they will still send Zhenya and not Sofia in such situation, but i see how it can be an issue.

I don't think it will be an issue reputation-wise, since russian officials support Zhenya so far despite bad GP outings, so it is unlikely that it would impact her PCs.
On the other hand, making the GPF could lead to a little increase of Tuktamysheva's and Samodurova's PCs also at nationals, which would mean somewhat stronger competition for Zhenya.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I really like everything you say here, this is basically how I see it too! They're both wonderful skaters with such different assets. How would you compare Anna with both of them?

I honestly haven’t seen enough of Anna yet to make a very informed judgement so I rarely comment on her. Since you’ve asked I’ll share some general impressions. I said at the beginning of the year I was previously scarred by her FS music and I meant it so I don’t watch that program much in spite of the greatest FS dress I’ve seen in years. She’s got some awesome qualities and I wouldn’t be surprised if she became RusNats champion one day but I also think she has some things to develop with her steps. Just some of the in between movements look great but have like a little moment of insecurity or something. She has nice posture too and very light movements. She reminds me so much of baby Zhenya before she started to break out during her second year on the JGP but with much better musicality. I think her ability to to feel and interpret the music is very impressive and sets her apart because she is doing very difficult programs while maintaining a noticeable feel. It’s going to likley be one of her biggest assets. Quad or no quad.

Im a little concerned her jumps are going to face some serious scrutiny though. That side pick thing she does on toe jumps might send the technically obsessed folks into a posting frenzy but it doesn’t bother me much so I’ll leave it at that. Both Sasha and Alena I think have stronger jumps.

I see a bright future for Anna and I do love her SP. IMO she is just barely behind Alena and Sasha when you judge their entire overall ability as a whole. I’m excited to see her at JGPF and RusNats and later into her career. I think at this point her and Tarakanova will be the ones dueling it out. Maybe not but if Anna misses a quad it’s Anastasia I’d expect to see making moves in the standings if she herself is clean. Should be interesting actually. YMMV

She seems like a very sweet person too which makes pulling for her success even easier. I sort of see her following a path similar to that of Medvedeva.