2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
- Joined
- May 4, 2018
Agree. I was joking, actually, mostly mocking her fans. [emoji16]
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
I don’t know what they mean, but translated from Russian "Tosca" means "boring"
So when Verdi’s Tosca is performed in Russia, are people going to the boring opera?
or do they change the name of the work?
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
For me, her scores were low because her program didn't have as much choreographic or transitional content. I hope her scores don't rise merely because she has a more artistic program if the new one also lacks the same intricacy of her past programs.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
It was actually an entrenched narrative in western Olympic coverage. Medvedeva was described as “balletic” and a superior artist, an extremely musical and graceful skater, etc.
The terms “musical,” “artistic,” and “lyrical” tend to be conflated. I don’t think Medvedeva was ever especially musical or a lyrical skater — the only time she skated to a truly classical piece was the Chopin short, which also had the sound effects and voiceover. Artistic, sure, but in a more modern style. I wouldn’t describe her style as especially refined or graceful, though. She was pushing at the edges of what artistry in ladies looks like and was always much more contemporary/modern. And her programmes were built on her acting abilities rather than, say, years of dance training.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2017
I think so too. Cos Misha Ge hasnt been to Canada for a couple of months. And usually Misha will announce if he is doing choreography for his client like for Kazuki Tomono.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
I’m afraid I must disagree. Zhenya as a musical and artistic skater was *never* “entrenched” in any “Western” Oly narrative that I listened to (if by West, you mean US of A, which was most of what I saw. Some B ESP, some French, some Italian as well).
Granted, I don’t follow the ladies that closely, but that makes me an even better example, since most of what I’ve seen would be mainstream coverage.
And jumping off, this is not in your post, I have no idea why anyone would want to mock fans, that doesn’t really advance an argument as to the merits of one particular skater or another.
I’m not particularly fond of E lucevan le stelle, and wish that Zhenya had been more comfortable with Orange Colored Sky. I hope the music will be used somewhere else soon.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2018
I recall her being considered more "artistic" than Zagitova, to be fair - and in many regards that was true. I don't recall a specific narrative that said she was more artistic than any other skaters. NBC in particular of any "Western" fs media tends to love head-to-head match-ups, so once they realized Alina and Zhenya would likely go 1-2 in either order, and that no American lady was going to suddenly acquire a stable 3Lz-3Lo overnight, it was as if no other skaters existed in their coverage.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
Examples: https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/2/22/17040376/evgenia-medvedeva-olympics-figure-skating
https://www.vox.com/2018/2/21/17035810/zagitova-medvedeva-olympics-figure-skating
https://slate.com/culture/2018/02/e...st-skater-and-she-loves-dancing-in-malls.html
https://slate.com/culture/2018/02/t...ssence-of-a-sport-thats-not-just-a-sport.html
See also: NYT, WaPo, etc. Especially after Zagitova won and it was framed as Lipinski/
-Kwan 2.0.
If you follow skating at all, you’re not in the group susceptible to this narrative, since you know how the scoring works. It’s people who saw Mesvedeva for the first time at the team event who were told: “Medvedeva is older and has the artistry, but Zagitova has all her jumps in the backhalf and the most difficult combo and the Olympics loves to reward younger competitors with technical firepower.” Every casual skating viewer I knew was parroting some version of this story. (It’s why my doctor correctly guessed Zagitova would win, actually.)
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
NBC loves oversimplifying rivalries into "performer vs. technician" type of narratives. They did the same thing with Virtue/Moir vs. Davis/White even though that's wildly inaccurate and unfair.
That is debatable.
I mean, she started training last in the season. By open skates, she barely knew her programs. Of course she has been training 2 SPs rather than trying to skate one clean.
This would honestly make even less sense.
So when Verdi’s Tosca is performed in Russia, are people going to the boring opera?
Nah they keep it. Russians who go to opera tend to know that "Toská" and "Tóska" are not the same thing.
Also, Toská in russian means a lot of stuff, like yearning, anguish, melancholy, longing, and the "boring" translation is more of a colloquial use. So actually even if taken literally, its not really a bad name for an opera where everybody dies.
TBH its even worse in portuguese, "tosco" means rough, blunt, lame, and "tosca", which is pronounced exactly same as the opera name, is the femenine of that =D
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2014
Something is going on with Zhenya. She seems so sad and unhappy compared to how she use to be. Yeah, it is heck to be knocked from number one but that is part of life. Should make one work even harder. But I think it is more than that. Why should Orser be reworking her technique and programs. Don't rework what is not broken. After all, she is how many times world champion? What she needs is some good music and well choregraphed programs and she is not getting it. But her biggest problem may be that she is very very Homesick. I personally have experience with some where it overrides everything and zaps the joy out of their life.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
OK, looking at the articles, now I get it: if you are talking about a rivalry of Zhenya v. Alina, the oversimplification would be that Zhenya is more artistic and Alina is more technical. I thought the OP (neither of you) was referring to some mass normative description of Zhenya overall, not just that rivalry.
And I stand by my recollection that *that* norm never happened. It's one thing to say who is more artistic between say, Samarin and Jin. It's another thing to say that either are the most artistic skater ever.
ETA: and at this point, what is most important is what will happen with Zhenya's SP. As others have said, if it's Misha, no way this just happened, unless Zhenya took a quick trip to LA. His IG is filled with his travels, and they have not overlapped recently. And of course, I :luv17: Misha, so if it's his work, I will be interested in seeing it. Very interesting :think:
Last edited:
I find the homesick part debatable. She is young, and has a lot of work to do. She is in a whole new country, meeting new people from a whole different culture, eating different food. This stuff is fascinating.
Also, Canada is fairly similar to Russia in climate and nature.
/depression mode on
From my own experience of changing countries, i would say those things stay cool for some time. Exploring new stuff and learning new things is nice. You may indeed have some short periods of homesickness, but its not something really crippling.
It usually gets worse after a couple of years, when you realize you are sort of a stranger there, than most of your family is not with you (while everybody else has grandparents, cousins, uncles and aunts and all that family stuff, you are basically alone, or with a small amount of relatives). That you have less close friends than the locals (school friends, childhood friends, most of that is lost). This is sort of things that you realize later on, and that tend to bother younger people less.
The worst part is that, at some point, you realize that you spent a very relevant part of your life in a whole different culture, watching movies that nobody at your current location knows and reading books that they never heard of. You played different games as kid. You have a somewhat different sense of humour. You have some accent, different gestures and facial expressions. Yes, all this becomes less visible over the years, but you will still feel like a stranger sometimes, and the people will also recognize you as a stranger (ohh you have this fancy accent, are you from *different town/region/whatever*).
And then the worst part is that when you come back to your homeland and find out that you are also a foreigner there, because you took enough from another country to not be one of them anymore.
Citizen of the world, citizen of nowhere.
/depression mode off
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2017
Similar things were said abt Yuzuru the 1st year he switched to Orser. That he looked sad & weepy, the changes werent doing him good, that he should go back to Naname Abe(his Japanese coach). Blah blah blah.
More so, after he was 4th at 2013 WC. 2012 he was 3rd so some were saying he got worse under Orser.
Then, we remember it took Mao Asada a long time to rework her jumps.
Jason Brown made the switch to TCC and is doing ok, after only 6 mths. He was 2nd at France GP & won Golden Spin. Maybe Jason's jumps has less stuff that needed reworking, he did say all of his jumps are being reworked/tweaked.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2014
There is truth to the saying--"You Can't Go Home Again"
I'm mostly worried because while Hanyu reworked his stuff, he still scored as well or even better than before.
Same for Yuna, same for Javi.
They didn't have a 20-25 points drop =(
My main guess here is that Orser didn't have much experience with Russian skaters who were trained for a long time under Russian system.
He had Gogolev, but Stephen was born in Canada, so had western coaching all along. Tursinbayeva switched to Orser as a junior (she was 12 or 13). Fedor Andreev moved to Canada when he was 7, so he also had western coaching all along. Elene Gedevanishvili went to orser after training with a bunch of different coaches first. So, basically, Zhenya is the one who trained the longest under Russian system.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2017
The main difference I see is Evgenia came to Orser already a World Champion & OG silver medalist.
Yuna, Javier, Yuzuru were not World Champions yet when they 1st arrived.
+ I dont recall their jumps had a lot of reworking to do. Javier came from Morozov. Even then, Orser said his 1st year with Javier the results were a disaster.
Yuzuru's jump technique was mostly taught by his 1st coach, a male Japanese coach. His main issue was stamina.
Yuna I'm not sure, she had injuries.
Jason Brown's season was also looking to be a disaster at Skate Canada. But Jason managed to regroup & do well in France. Jason is 1) more experienced at 23, knows what needs to be done. 2) Comes from a North American system where the skater decides. 3) His SP is done by his long time choreographer who knows him well
4) A new scoring system that goes in his favour. 5) Less pressure with less conpetition among US men for spots
6) As mentioned, Jason's jumps looked like needed less re working vs Evgenia's. Lots of forum members been complaining abt Evgenia's Flutz for ages.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2018
She has nothing to loose. And from the small video she gets the new sp better, her arms are back, I think she needed to change it. It is closer toor it is her old style.
Similar threads
