2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2016
True. Break up was handled pretty amateurishly by both parties involved. But that how much they love each other and how much stubborn they both are.
I just want to point out a simple frank fact. With all the love and respect to Zhenya, we can agree that Zhenya at her 15 y.o. was not the same as lets say Carolina Kostner was at her 15 y.o. or not the same as Alyona Kostornaya is now. If we are not uber-staning, but speaking objectively here. It is undoubtfull true that Zhenya is a very talented girl, but it is also true what she was and still is lacking some qualities and skills in her figure skating. Old coaching team was masking and downplaying her weaknesses and emphasizing and celebrating her strong sides in their choreography and programs. Like any coaching team should do! They know her inside-out, they tried many different things and tried different choreography, transitions and step sequences to apply on Zhenya.
That being said, her new coaching team with Orser leadership just don't know Zhenya that well yet. Like really know know her. So her flaws become very obvious this season, especially with such extremely fast SP swapping. Before changing coaches Zhenya was compensating it with her hard work and right choreography specifically cattered for her. Eteri, her team and Zhenya are known of being workaholics. They made it work for her. Countless amount of hours of coloborative effort between Zhenya and coaches later, but whatever they been doing together it worked for her.
I love Zhenya, don't get me wrong, but she is 19 now and she is not as refined as Carolina Kostner was at the same age (although Zhenya always jumped better) and she is not as elegant as Kostornaya who is already a complete package at her 15 y.o. Just saying. That simply cannot be taught. Or lost. Qualities like Kostornaya and Kostner having are inborn. It is on a DNA level.
I remember both Alina and Zhenya at Olympics were saying there are better and stronger young girls at home and they are coming. They knew them very well, because they had been skating along them on the same ice rink for few years already. Any serious FS fan had been watching those youngsters for 2 years already as well. So if Eteri congratulated Alina and Zhenya with their Olympic medals and gave Zhenya her trademarked brutal honesty about Zheny's very low chances for gold at Olympics-2022, I would say Eteri was just being realistic. Why lie to her daughter-like long-time student and have her hopes high for 2022? She gave it straight. That's probably what triggered all this mess. Add "friends of the family" - the usual suspects - TAT and Besti - to the mix and you have yourself a drama.
here is drama button if you need one: https://www.myinstants.com/instant/drama/
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
Good points very well said. I would have thought that 11 years of coaching and nurturing would have meant more to Zhenya than it did. To not communicate with your coach and at least say you're leaving had to disappoint eteri. And Diana was upset too because she thought that her mother favored evgenia over her own flesh and blood daughter. The Dynamics in this relationship run Deep. I can only wish them all well and good health. But in defense of Zhenya if she went and sat down with Eteti to tell her that she probably would have been talked into staying for one more year.
The three great Juniors from Eteri don't care about any of this drama or who did what to who they're just coming to outperform everybody like they did at Nationals. It's just the tip of the eteri iceberg!
I don’t see the Eteri vs Zhenya break up as a “both sides” situation. The bottom line is that a 43 yr old woman verbally attacked a teenager on national tv to ruin her reputation. Eteri was wrong to do it and owes Evgenia an apology.
I dont know what Zhenya’s chances are to be on the Olympic team in 2022. But I think she deserves the opportunity to fix her technique and become an all-around better skater for a long term career. That wasn’t going to happen at Sambo-70.
That is not exactly true. Evgenia has been asked several times about Eteri saying that she wanted Alina to stay in juniors. Here are her statements:
Off season, right after Eteri made the comment: "No comment."
October: "I don’t remember exactly, but even if I say something, I didn’t mean it like this."
November: "There are lots of rumors right now saying that I want to prevent junior skaters to access the senior ranks, that I get mad at them. I’m not."
She gets asked about this a lot. I wish the reporters would stop asking. Evgenia's answers are different every time.
Since you mentioned it, here is the background for Alina's hearts: to support Alina at GPF, some fans started using the tag 'My heart is with Alina Zagitova' #СердцемСЗагитовой, and the group who run the Team Zagitova Instagram spread the word on their page. They planned to rain real hearts for Alina's skate at Nationals. It was a very warm thought, especially when Alina's free skate did not turn out the way she had planned. I hope that she felt the hearts that went out to her on that day.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2014
Since you mentioned it, here is the background for Alina's hearts: to support Alina at GPF, some fans started using the tag 'My heart is with Alina Zagitova' #СердцемСЗагитовой, and the group who run the Team Zagitova Instagram spread the word on their page. They planned to rain real hearts for Alina's skate at Nationals. It was a very warm thought, especially when Alina's free skate did not turn out the way she had planned. I hope that she felt the hearts that went out to her on that day.
Thank you for the clarification. This version is much nicer than the one that I made up especially if we do not link the movement: "Zhenya is the champion of our hearts" and "My heart is with Alina Zagitova".
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2016
I think we don't know a lot of things to demand anything form Eteri or Zhenya. Or make someone to appologies.
I'll just add a small thing. Not everyone in Moscow (and North America too) is happy with Eteri winning almost everything in ladies for the last 6-7 years (Tukti had her Worlds title in 2014 during weak field in ladies). Other elite coaches need to put some food on their talbels and pay bills too, you know, and for that they need students who can win something internationally too. And it's hard when Eteri's students cashing almost everything in seniors and juniors. Hence all the gossips and smear campaign on social networks, forums and silly chatty things like TSL and others.
Regarding Zhenya's chances... I believe in her and her ability to work. And I want to believe. But figure skating is changing. This Nats demonstrated us the depth of the Russian ladies field. And 3 more "fresh of the boat" Eteri prodigies are coming into juniors next year. Valieva, Akaieva and other girl, probably amazing as well. They will be age-eligible by 2022? I dunno about their ages atm. And add current Eteri soon-to-be-seniors triple-A squad to the mix. They are stronger and better than Zhenya and Alina were at their younger ages. You will have at least 10 strong girls battling for 3 spots on Olympic tteam in 2022. Japan is not too far away either in terms of competitiveness and depth. Figure skating is advancing in difficulty and depth of talent. There is no way of stopping it. The same "revolution in difficulty" happened in artistic gymnastics in 2000s. Training conditions became better, skates became more comfortable, blades became better, medical services for athletes become more professional. Video recording and slow mo replay for skaters could be done with push of the button of ipad. Hence the progress of difficulty and technique in FS. It is a natural evolution in the sport. Zhenya felt behind the progress a bit already.
Whatever Eteri said to Zhenya in private and what initially triggered Zhenya to not call her back and to leave without personal face-to-face goodbye is a mystery for a now. But I think Eteri said the truth to Zhenya, what she really thinks about the future of FS and worldwide progress in difficulty. Eteri knows Zhenya and her abilities very well, she knows Zhenya better than anyone else, even than Zhenya herself. Zhenya, her family and TAT+Besti probably did not like that truth. But all coaches worldwide simply can't forbid their students to train quads and 3Axels. I think Eteri was just being realistic. Anyone can promise Zhenya the status of super-star and all the gold in the world, but, honestly, cmon, don't we see where figure skating is going now? Today juniors are jumping quads, in 3-4 years all top-5 senior ladies will have to land quads/3A.
GPF showed us one sobbering thing - clean SP and clean FS with 2A combos and 7 strong triples & triple-triples are not good enough to win any more. I remember the time (oh, well, around circa 2004-2008) when people were seriously discussing if 2-3 triple-triples in FS would be ever needed for the win at next Olympics. And now any serious 12 yo lady in Russia or Japan is jumping triple-triples before the breakfast. Sasha throwing her 3Lz3Lo just for warm-ups. Rika is getting very consistent with her 3A and 3A combos. Realistically speaking, if those jumps are not taught at younger ages they are impossible to pick up later. This is where figure skating is heading. And it is exciting, tbh.
kay:People keep talking about the Eteri-Evgenia relationship, so I will add my piece.
All I have are a few words from Polina Shelepen. For those who don't know Polina, she is the tallest girl in this picture.
https://pp.userapi.com/c622830/v622830570/38d36/VwZG4gpdpCo.jpg
Like Evgenia, Polina started training with Eteri at a young age. Like Evgenia, Polina suddenly left Eteri for another coach. Like Evgenia, Polina's split was not a happy one, either.
This April, Polina made a post on her Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bh0lyakDsac/
Polina doesn't specify any names, but I think her message is clear. I'm glad she was able to make peace with her decisions and reconcile with her old coach.
Also, take notice of the timing. It has been 6 years since Polina left Eteri. It has only been 6 months for Evgenia. Give her time.
All I have are a few words from Polina Shelepen. For those who don't know Polina, she is the tallest girl in this picture.
https://pp.userapi.com/c622830/v622830570/38d36/VwZG4gpdpCo.jpg
Like Evgenia, Polina started training with Eteri at a young age. Like Evgenia, Polina suddenly left Eteri for another coach. Like Evgenia, Polina's split was not a happy one, either.
This April, Polina made a post on her Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bh0lyakDsac/
то ж,достаточно многим известно мое появление на катке самбо 70. Не была там лет 6. Это было нелегко,а ещё сложнее признать свои ошибки и извиниться. Я думаю многие догадаются о чем идёт речь. Но,чертовски приятно вернуться на родной катокГде когда то начинала свой путь и даже увидеть на стене катка фотографию с собой.
Все мы делаем ошибки,все мы люди. Но нужно уметь их признавать и желательно в моем случае не затягивать с этим��
Well, many know about my appearance at Sambo-70. I haven’t been there for 6 years. It was not easy, and it’s even harder to admit my mistakes and apologize. I think many will guess what is at stake. But, it is nice to go back to the home rink
Polina doesn't specify any names, but I think her message is clear. I'm glad she was able to make peace with her decisions and reconcile with her old coach.
Also, take notice of the timing. It has been 6 years since Polina left Eteri. It has only been 6 months for Evgenia. Give her time.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2018
For those planning their winter holidays, or simply their telly time...
ISU European Figure Skating Championships 2019
21.1.2019 - 27.1.2019, Minsk, Belarus
Wednesday, 23rd January
11:00-17:00 – Ladies. Short Program
18:00-18:30 – Opening Ceremony
18:45-21:50 – Pairs. Short Program
Thursday, 24th January
12:00-17:40 – Men. Short Program
19:00-21:50 – Pairs. Free Skating
Friday, 25th January
11:30-16:30 – Ice Dance. Short Dance
18:00-21:55 – Ladies. Free Skating
Saturday, 26th January
11:15-15:10 – Men. Free Skating
16:25-19:45 – Ice Dance. Free Dance
Sunday, 27th January
15:00-17:30 – Gala Exhibition
Those times are Minsk time, the same as Moscow time (= GMT+3)
ISU European Figure Skating Championships 2019
21.1.2019 - 27.1.2019, Minsk, Belarus
Wednesday, 23rd January
11:00-17:00 – Ladies. Short Program
18:00-18:30 – Opening Ceremony
18:45-21:50 – Pairs. Short Program
Thursday, 24th January
12:00-17:40 – Men. Short Program
19:00-21:50 – Pairs. Free Skating
Friday, 25th January
11:30-16:30 – Ice Dance. Short Dance
18:00-21:55 – Ladies. Free Skating
Saturday, 26th January
11:15-15:10 – Men. Free Skating
16:25-19:45 – Ice Dance. Free Dance
Sunday, 27th January
15:00-17:30 – Gala Exhibition
Those times are Minsk time, the same as Moscow time (= GMT+3)
Just to illustrate a bit better, about Russia, teachers and flowers:
This is september 1st (the date when classes officially start in russia):
2018 https://pronedra.ru/upkeep/uploads/2018/08/ineyka-400x300.jpg
2000: http://www.archive.pskov.ru/sites/default/files/arhupr/test/14062012/22.jpg
1980 http://nvrsk-kostomarovo.ru/main.ph...2_GALLERYSID=6aa3e11cc2c6635c478d157d982f0142
1960: http://www.armsosh13.ru/UserFiles/Image/2(6).jpg
those bouquets go to teachers and school staff
This applies specially to kids starting school, and kids leaving school
Then, there is also teacher's day, in october, when students also give teachers flowers and presents
This is norm mostly. Lately, flowers are being replaced with other stuff (like donations to charity or whatever), but giving flowers to teachers is still the norm.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2018
This is all very sensible ("...it is up to Zhenya to extend the olive branch..."). There was indeed a breach of decorum to do with several overlapping factors, student-teacher, child-adult and younger-elder (still very powerful and respected in Russian social etiquette), even mother-daughter. Evgenia would be well aware of this, and it may be weighing heavily on her heart. I do sense that she is edging towards initiating the necessary reconciliation.
I think that she is desperate to normalise relations and be embraced by her Russian skating comrades both in the Eteri camp and distributed over other schools, and in time Eteri, Sergei, Daniil and others who have mentored her. There have actually been little signs since test skates of her working slowly towards normalisation. But pride was wounded severely on both sides and pride is a difficult mental barrier to break through (and can play tricks with outside observers too and cause them to misinterpret behaviours and countenances). Behind the pride and the protective shells, there is sadness on both parts clearly to be seen.
For those who continually go on about Eteri's role or responsibility, amongst all the other factors (respect, gratitude, decorum, etc.) and amongst a lot of misrepresentation, a major consideration is that from at least the Olympics period and the subsequent weeks (and during WC, be it noted), Eteri will have had at the epicentre of her mind her dying mother (while still performing her job unremittingly). Some commenter recently said something heartless like, that far ahead, it [cancer] would not have been serious. Far from it, of course. That close to the end, it is likely to have been known to be terminal. Knowledge of this prolonged emotional trauma should at least cause these people pause for a bit of self-reflection.
You took the words out of my mouth - I’m reading this thread feeling like I’m taking crazy pills.. Eteri is very smart - she, someone who supposedly was practically a mother to Evgenia, purposefully tried to tarnish her reputation and hurt her. I have seen nothing from Evgenia but try and remain respectful but attempt to defend herself.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2017
https://twitter.com/to0mie/status/1076883478887698432?s=21
People wanted Eteri and Zhenya to reconcile? Let them able to stand next to each other first.
People wanted Eteri and Zhenya to reconcile? Let them able to stand next to each other first.
the whole thing, just in case (actually when you watch everything, the impression is somewhat different from the gif - Eteri just went back to drop the flowers)
https://youtu.be/yPloU9b5bGU?t=512
Well, there are so many possibilities: https://br.pinterest.com/pin/752171575239845297/
Eyeballs are my favourite <3
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2017
The essence of what happened to Alina is that when she came with flowers and with words of gratitude to Eteri, she was leaving figure skating and she was student of Anna Tsareva. No one, including Eteri, did not expect that she will come to say farewell to her. In addition, I guess, she was looking on Eteri with adoring eyes. Would you be able to resist? Eteri couldn't.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I don't know either the skater or the coach. But in general, teenagers grow up, they rebel against authority (especially their parents) and want to sally forth on their own. Sometimes a particular disappointment or emotional pressure of one kind or another precipitates a not-altogether-pleasant separation.
Michelle Kwan left Frank Carroll. Yuna Kim left Brian Orser. Feelings were hurt. Time heals all wounds.
(That's my opinion, anyway.)
Michelle Kwan left Frank Carroll. Yuna Kim left Brian Orser. Feelings were hurt. Time heals all wounds.
(That's my opinion, anyway.)
LOL.... those school uniforms through a half century haven't changed.
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