2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Sam-Skwantch]

What an absolutely horrible thing to say. No matter what you think age limits should be, don't objectify these skaters.

You’ve completely missed the context of that comment which was in response to an earlier post which quoted this

Liza is a fully developed lady rather than a painted up baby. We need even stricter limit. It should be the competition of ladies rather than small pre-puberty girls without breasts and weedy legs at the age of 14.

Clearly a response to that quote.

 

[melgirl25]

I see. A misunderstanding. I'm sorry as well. In that case, I do agree with the rest of your post for the most part, though I see it more positively. Essentially, I think if it's handled properly, having so much time to prepare for next season is a blessing in disguise. If somehow by someone withdrawing or someone bombing before Worlds she gets the opportunity to go, then sure she should take it. But I don't think they should fight for a spot (through the media like TAT, or going to an unnecessary competition) I think it'd be unproductive.

She could really use this off season to get a head start for next season, as well as train without competitive pressure for a few months. She could really hammer in skating skills training, or retooling a jump and risking it being inconsistent for a short bit while doing so. Or even learning a new jump if that's on the radar. But of course, they will have to make the choice to go about it this way rather than training like "normal," which seems to just bring incremental (both positive and negative) change.

The issue though is that she does well in practice, not in competitions so she really needs more competition practice so her new techniques are getting into her muscle memory.

 

[Fluture]

Why am I not surprised that the people who want to raise the age limit are a person whose favorite lady is older and a bunch of people who know nothing about ladies skating?

There is a legitimate concern about raising the age limit, though. And not all who suggest it have a favourite lady they want to protect. Many arguments would be for raising the age limit, many against it. That‘s why it‘s such a difficult decision to be made. But it‘s certainly not - or at least not solely - some bs by TAT and her media sisters who want to protect Medvedeva. There are real issues that have to be addressed. Not now, but in the future.

 

[theharleyquinn]

Is Orser actually allowed to participate in the coaches council? Somehow I could see that doing more harm than good.

 

[Fluture]

Is Orser actually allowed to participate in the coaches council? Somehow I could see that doing more harm than good.

Well, the first issue I‘d see with that is that he‘d likely sit there and have not a single clue what is being discussed in the first place. He‘d need a translator. I still don‘t get why TAT wasn‘t there. If she wants Zhenya at Euros, well then do something for that, stand up for her but not leave the coaches‘ council and complain afterwards. That doesn‘t make much sense to me.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I think even if we see a revolving door, this should be evaluated carefully.
For example, it is fair for 3A to replace Zhenya and Alina, as they are stronger all around. Not because of puberty, but because, for example, Sasha, even in seniors, will be a better jumper than both Zhenya and Alina together, even if she loses the quads. Because right now, 3A are better than Zhenya and Alina were at their age.
So they would win and replace not because they have teenage bodies, but because they are better, simply put.

If we come to a point when we have a situation where we have lets say Zhenya and Alina being replaced by same Zhenya and Alina, but 2-3 years younger, then sure, raising age could be a thing.
If new waves of skaters are simply better and stronger, there is no excuse to push them back simply because new talents keep coming.

Or maybe it’s time to start reevaluating the root of the problem and look seriously at expanding the field to start including skaters based on their scores and not their nationality. The reason people get pushed aside isn’t always because they are deteriorating but rather there is no place for them to compete. TBH I’m far more concerned that Anastasiia may give up than someoneone having a freak fall. Sima has been improving the last few seasons...Gubanova and Tarakanova would have made almost any other nations team and placed well at JWC yet they get pushed aside. It must be incredibly frustrating! Masha has really only had one bad season since she started competing internationally in 2013. She can keep training to fight thru this tough season but even if she gets back to her top form will there be room for her...regardless of how well she does or would stack up internationally? Is it worth it for her to continue or in her best interest to focus on school? Tough choices!!

I think a lot of this discussion is misplaced and the whole PCS and TES thing sort of surprises me. Sasha earned those marks and I’d go as far to say probably deserved more than some of the skaters who placed ahead of her but that is simply a matter of opinion. I still think they held her PCS back as opposed to award her with anything extra for her quads. Especially in the SP and that was in anticipation of the looming quads she was sure to unleash. YMMV.

 

[[email protected]]

This is just my guess but I think that Rusfed wants to have open options now that it is impossible to name the solution ideal for WC in Japan.

Europeans outcome.

Zagitova just needs to be OK. With her OGM and strong season start including GPF silver she will get the WC spot unless there is a total meltdown in both SP and FP and the score is below 200. This will mean that she has major body issues and/or illness/injury. The Fed will reconsider if it makes sense to send her in such a condition. I hope that this gloomy scenario won't materialize and spot #1 is taken. The rest is based on the assumption that Alina is fine.

Samodurova has to do her regular job of 2 clean skates. She might then even improve her total score to 205 - 207. This will be around #7 - #8 place in the worlds and a good support for Zagitova to keep 3 team spots. Her WC team place may be in danger if something goes wrong and she scores below 200. I think that she will be replaced then even if she gets a European medal. Even if she is fine and scores around 205 she may be in danger if 2 of 3 following conditions are met:

1. Konstantinova scores more than she at the Europeans
2. Tuktamysheva fully recovers and has a competition (Universiada?) with the score well above 210.
3. Medvedeva has a competition with 2 clean skates (Cup of Russia? Universiada?) with the score well above 210.

There are 3 scenarios for Stasya:

1. She skates better than Sofia and scores above 205. Then spot #2 will be taken by her. Zhenya might replace her at Universiade to let Konstantinova focus on WC preparation.
2. She skates better than Sofia but the score is below 200. Then it will depend on Liza's condition and Zhenya's results. I think Universiade will be the moment of truth. If she bombs it she won't go - Liza and Zhenya will.
3. She bombs the Europeans scoring below Sofia. She won't go to both WC and Universiade. The choice for 2 out of 3 will be among Sofia, Liza, and Zhenya.

Liza will replace either Sofia or Stasya if she has one start where she shows her tactical comeback. She has to score above 210 - better around 220. If she is not convincing enough that will be a sad end of such a promising season for her.

Zhenya will be in the team if 2 of 3 following conditions are met:

1. Samodurova bombs
2. Konstantinova bombs
3. Liza does not recover.

 

[serephy]

Is Orser actually allowed to participate in the coaches council? Somehow I could see that doing more harm than good.

The coaching council is made up of:

Chairman: Leonid Khachaturov
Deputy Chairmen: Galina Golubkova, Alexei Urmanov
Members: Irina Absalyamova, Svetlana Alexeeva, Viktor Anikanov, Valery Artuykhov, Evgeny Bezmenov, Elena Buyanova, Liudmila Volkova, Aleksandr Zhulin, Gennady Korponosov, Viktor Kudriavtsev, Aleksandr Kusnetsov, Elena Levkovets, Alexei Mishin, Nina Mozer, Tamara Moskvina, Evgeni Rukavitsin, Aleksandr Svinin, Mikhail Stifunin, Alexei Suchkov, Tatiana Tarasova, Eteri Tutberidze, Valentina Tiukova

You can find more information about the council and it's members here. I think Eteri is the most recent addition to the group.

*I've bolded the names of some of the more prominent figures in the council.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Well, the first issue I‘d see with that is that he‘d likely sit there and have not a single clue what is being discussed in the first place. He‘d need a translator.

I would have put a GoPro on Zhenya’s head and sent her in to translate for him

 

[Fluture]

The coaching council is made up of:

Chairman: Leonid Khachaturov
Deputy Chairmen: Galina Golubkova, Alexei Urmanov
Members: Irina Absalyamova, Svetlana Alexeeva, Viktor Anikanov, Valery Artuykhov, Evgeny Bezmenov, Elena Buyanova, Liudmila Volkova, Aleksandr Zhulin, Gennady Korponosov, Viktor Kudriavtsev, Aleksandr Kusnetsov, Elena Levkovets, Alexei Mishin, Nina Mozer, Tamara Moskvina, Evgeni Rukavitsin, Aleksandr Svinin, Mikhail Stifunin, Alexei Suchkov, Tatiana Tarasova, Eteri Tutberidze, Valentina Tiukova

You can find more information about the council and it's members here. I think Eteri is the most recent addition to the group.

*I've bolded the names of some of the more prominent figures in the council.

Now we know why Zhenya doesn‘t go to Euros. Eteri was in the coaches council.

(I‘m obviously just kidding so don‘t jump at me with your figure skates and threaten to murder me over the internet. )

I would have put a GoPro on Zhenya’s head and sent her in to translate for him

Oh yes, please. Figure skating sometimes is REALLY better than any soap opera you could possibly watch. How much I‘d give to find out what was being discussed in rusfed‘s meetings.

 

[madison]

I think it‘s not only the physical component that gives an advantage to the younger girls but also the psychological factor that is different. Look at Sasha now. She is fearless because yes, she is a naturally brave person but also because she hasn‘t been given any reason not to be. I‘m actually close to Medvedeva‘s age so it‘s not long ago that I myself went from being the Alina of last year to the Alina of this year. And I can say that this one year of being either 15 or 16 does make a difference. Last year Alina was a child, both physically and mentally. A tough child of course and stronger than the average one but still. This year she‘s maturing right in front of the world and honestly, she‘s doing a better job than most teenagers would ever do. She‘s managing to stay a top level athlete despite going through all these changes. For me, it‘s not about “women‘s skating“ or “artistry“ or ”maturity“. A certain maturity always comes with age but artistry certainly doesn’t. Alena Kostornaya would beg to differ. But it‘s more the mentality, I’m thinking about. As soon as you get older you start to worry more, you have to listen to your body more. I can only say: Look at Alina. And I know that if I happened to be a sportswoman at the elite level I‘d find it insanely unfair to compete against the girl I was three/four years ago because that girl just didn‘t care and worry too much. Because she didn‘t have to. She could do whatever she wanted and her body would accept it because she was young. That girl thought the world belonged to her. It was a certain naivety that is normal for that age. But the older you get, the less this works.

But then again, is it fair to rob these girls of the chances of being at the high level competitions when it‘s easier for them, physically and mentally? I don‘t know and I don‘t think it‘s up to anyone to really decide. That‘s why I‘d be in favor of changing the judging system (or at least apply the one we have correctly) rather than keeping the young talents out of the senior ranks.

I think it would be fair to raise the age at 17. As you said, the mental and body differences between a pre-puberty and post-puberty lady are essential in the way they skate. If the system is to be fair for everyone and to give them equal chances, the age should be raised. But the change must be done with some years in advance before its implementation in order to give the coaches time to adapt, maybe to adapt their training methods and so on.
On the other hand, the raise would impact the popularity of the discipline. I mean, for example this Rus Championship: it was surely more excited to have the juniors there, even to win, than to see Stasya, Alina, Sofya, Evgenia struggling.

 

[andromache]

On the other hand, the raise would impact the popularity of the discipline. I mean, for example this Rus Championship: it was surely more excited to have the juniors there, even to win, than to see Stasya, Alina, Sofya, Evgenia struggling.

1. We need to distinguish between raising the age for individual national championships versus ISU competition. For individual national championships, I don't think it's a big deal either way - it's good experience for the junior skaters to compete with seniors, for example, but I can see why a federation would want to "protect" their senior-level skaters. But every individual federation will want different things. For international competition, one hopes that there would be enough depth that competition would still be exciting.

2. Older ladies might have fewer struggles if they are trained to peak post-puberty. Look at Liza - her skating has its flaws, but she has the most beautiful jumps in the world at age 21. What will Alina and Evgenia's jumps look like at 21? They will never be as nice as Liza's, but will they still have relatively consistent 3-3s and generally clear rotations? We have to wait and see. It's understandable to struggle DURING puberty, but one hopes that a lady will be able to get through it and regain nice jumps afterwards.

From an experimental point of view, it would've been nice for Evgenia to stay with Eteri just to see if she would still succeed under her training post-puberty. We'll have to see how Alina looks in 1-2 years.

 

[DougDorsey]

Has anyone pieced together the specific music segment recordings from Alena's free skate? This is what I have...

1) "Kissing You" performed by Des'ree from Baz Luhrmann's Romeo + Juliet (1996). I feel like the recording used in the program is different than the one on the motion picture soundtrack, though.

2) "Forbidden Love" composed by Abel Korzeniowski from Carlo Carlei's Romeo & Juliet (2013). I was able to find this one...https://youtu.be/ZgoC9HrE0ug.

3) "Love Theme From Romeo & Juliet" arranged by Henry Mancini from Franco Zeffirelli's Romeo and Juliet (1968). Similar to #1, I feel like the recording used in the program is different than the one on the motion picture soundtrack.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! (Trying to track down the YouTube links to the exact recordings.)

 

[zounger]

I think we need to wait or "sacrifice" another one or two Olympic cycles and things will unfold normally. No need to make something artificially just because we don't like a specific school or something.


Personally, what I should have done as an ISU will be, invest/research some time to see how a reliable technology can be developed to measure the height and distance of a jump. Also, blade technology to recognize take off and landing angles, edge angle on takeoff. Then change the base value of the jump based on combination of rotation, height, distance, etc. With an upropriate formula.

So in that case for example, Liza's 3lz can give same BV as Anna's 4Lz which is based more on rotation. In this way, you give more weight on the athletic abilities that are developt after human body reaches it's full gowth. As in athletics, it's very rare someone junior to jump/run higher/faster than someone senior.

 

[moriel]

The coaching council is made up of:

Chairman: Leonid Khachaturov
Deputy Chairmen: Galina Golubkova, Alexei Urmanov
Members: Irina Absalyamova, Svetlana Alexeeva, Viktor Anikanov, Valery Artuykhov, Evgeny Bezmenov, Elena Buyanova, Liudmila Volkova, Aleksandr Zhulin, Gennady Korponosov, Viktor Kudriavtsev, Aleksandr Kusnetsov, Elena Levkovets, Alexei Mishin, Nina Mozer, Tamara Moskvina, Evgeni Rukavitsin, Aleksandr Svinin, Mikhail Stifunin, Alexei Suchkov, Tatiana Tarasova, Eteri Tutberidze, Valentina Tiukova

You can find more information about the council and it's members here. I think Eteri is the most recent addition to the group.

*I've bolded the names of some of the more prominent figures in the council.

That is not correct, as there have been changes.
For example, this year, Elena Tchaikovskaia became chairman: https://sport.rambler.ru/figureskat...aykovskaya-vozglavila-trenerskiy-sovet-ffkkr/

So its like this:
Chairman: Elena Tchaikovskaia
Deputy Chairmen: Leonid Khachaturov, Galina Golubkova, Aleksandr Kuznetsov
Members: Irina Absalyamova, Svetlana Alexeeva, Viktor Anikanov, Valery Artuykhov, Evgeny Bezmenov, Elena Buyanova, Liudmila Velikova, Liudmina Volkova, Sergei Dobroskokov, Aleksandr Zhulin, Gennady Karponosov, Viktor Kudriavtsev, Elena Levkovets, Alexei Mishin, Nina Mozer, Tamara Moskvina, Evgeni Rukavitsin, Aleksandr Svinin, Oleg Sudakov, Tatiana Tarasova, Eteri Tutberidze, Valentina Tiukova, Uliana Chirkova

 

[moriel]

Elena Tchaikovskaia on Medvedeva
https://rg.ru/2018/12/23/reg-pfo/el...-pervenstva-rossii-po-figurnomu-kataniiu.html

About girls and Zagitova:

We have an incredible constellation of young women - one better than other. Task: to preserve them, because one thing is to skate at 13-15, and another, at 17-19. As the famous german coach Jutta Müller, who coached the great Gabriele Seyfert, used to say, "you need to know how to work with women". How relevant this is even now for all countries, and also for ours, where we have an incredible reserve. Take care of them, when there is a period of growth, when there are inevitable changes in weight and, of course, mentality changes.
Zagitova is very strong. Her skating in free, i think, is a temporary nuisance. I've seen her in practice, and in the warmups, and everywhere she was incredibly good, beautiful and trustworthy. We will hope that this was just a mess up. The girls have very high scores. They got three first places, and none of them can go to ISU championships due to age. Yes, there is also an age change that also affects psychologically the performances of mature stars.

About Medvedeva:

As for Zhenya Medvedeva, it is hard for me to say anything. There is just one question: where is that divine Medvedeva that we loved so much, and where did she disappear? There is a whole new athlete, that didn't find it yet in the new program and in the new selfesteem. I see confusion, technical issues. It is possible that it is also related to the age i spoke about. But her charisma, her incredible lightness, and, if you want, her temperament, are gone. It is a pity, because this is also one of the genius figure skaters. I didn't want to watch the warm up before the short. Nor this program. I pity such athletes. It is a pity that such thing could happen, and it is needed to get out of this. We need to find ways. And Zhenya, of course, must continue. We must see her rebirth. Yes, we still talk about rebirth. She now didn't even get to European championship. Despite the fact all waited for her: both we and the audience. It was supposed that Zagitova and Medvedeva are two leaders that definitely will go to Europe, and the third one will be selected. But it happened not the way we wanted and how it should be.
We are not forgetting about Tuktamysheva, who got sick with pneumonia, that does not allow participating in competitions. But she had great showings at all the grand prix and the final.
The situation is pretty good. In Europe, we can count on a very high result. And lets not forget about Universiade in Krasnoyarsk - the main athletic event of this season in our country. There, our students must show themselves. And after, get ready for the worlds championship, it is very important this year. Always, after the Olympics, this championship shows who will fight for the Olympic gold. Podium positions at the worlds championship are very important to us. And we will start from there. If you are 10th and below, it is hard to climb to the podium. Yes, miractes happened, but they are rare. In the figure skating world, half of the competition left. But new stars appeared. How quickly and strongly they started to shine! And now we see them: look at results of the single ladies from Japan and Korea. We cannot have even a minute of rest! Everyone develops, rushes to top. And the worlds championship, even more one that happens in Japan, is very important for the perspectives of Beijing Olympic Games.

Considering that Tchaikovskaia leads the coaches board, and what Piseev said about Medvedeva training in Russia, i feel that rusfed expected Zhenya's struggles to be single events, not a pattern, and are not entirely happy. Considering that TAT, at rusnats, basically acted as a second coach to Zhenya, I kinda see that maybe she heard some unpleasant things, and maybe this could be also the reason on why she skipped the coaches board meet.

Also, this interview explains why they sent team A to Universiade. We were forgetting its in Russia, and of course they want to medal at home and thus don't want to send team B/C as they did previously.

 

[vesperalvioletta]

Has anyone pieced together the specific music segment recordings from Alena's free skate? This is what I have...

1) "Kissing You" performed by Des'ree from Baz Luhrmann's Romeo + Juliet (1996). I feel like the recording used in the program is different than the one on the motion picture soundtrack, though.

2) "Forbidden Love" composed by Abel Korzeniowski from Carlo Carlei's Romeo & Juliet (2013). I was able to find this one...https://youtu.be/ZgoC9HrE0ug.

3) "Love Theme From Romeo & Juliet" arranged by Henry Mancini from Franco Zeffirelli's Romeo and Juliet (1968). Similar to #1, I feel like the recording used in the program is different than the one on the motion picture soundtrack.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! (Trying to track down the YouTube links to the exact recordings.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlgJrmxspdA
Here's the version of Kissing You with the Leonardo DiCaprio voiceovers. You've got the Abel Korzienowski Romeo and Juliet track right, but I can't seem to find the version of Nino Rota's Love Theme that Daniil used for Alena.

 

[EdRoz]

What will Alina and Evgenia's jumps look like at 21? They will never be as nice as Liza’s

Take another look in your crystal ball, my friend

https://giphy.com/gifs/edbassmastershow-cmt-the-ed-bassmaster-show-3o72F5tx9CEhSDxonC

 

[Fluture]

Elena Tchaikovskaia on Medvedeva
https://rg.ru/2018/12/23/reg-pfo/el...-pervenstva-rossii-po-figurnomu-kataniiu.html

About girls and Zagitova:


About Medvedeva:



Considering that Tchaikovskaia leads the coaches board, and what Piseev said about Medvedeva training in Russia, i feel that rusfed expected Zhenya's struggles to be single events, not a pattern, and are not entirely happy. Considering that TAT, at rusnats, basically acted as a second coach to Zhenya, I kinda see that maybe she heard some unpleasant things, and maybe this could be also the reason on why she skipped the coaches board meet.

Also, this interview explains why they sent team A to Universiade. We were forgetting its in Russia, and of course they want to medal at home and thus don't want to send team B/C as they did previously.

Zhenya‘s worst score this year was 192 something. In 2017 Elena Radionova won with a score of 196. The silver and bronze were awarded to the Japanese with scores of 187 and 174. A fit Liza will win with more than 200 points and even an IdF Zhenya would have got the silver here. Depending on who the Japanese send, it‘s in their bag. But I doubt the Japanese will send their A team there because Kihira, Sakamoto and Miyahara have to prepare for Worlds. They can send Mai Mihara who is a 202 max skater at best. In fact according to this post they’ll indeed send Mai plus someone named Hina Takeno.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BrxuqPbhOvE/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1avcc1f2ps5vr

Even if Zhenya has an IdF performance, she‘ll probably stil get a medal there. And they can‘t swipe the podium anyway, they only have two skaters. And I feel like it would be less stressful for Stasya too. These competitions are pretty close to each other and if she goes to all three of them... well, I just hope she manages and we don‘t see a repeat of last year at Worlds.

 

[atsumiri]

The coaching council is made up of:

Chairman: Leonid Khachaturov
Deputy Chairmen: Galina Golubkova, Alexei Urmanov
Members: Irina Absalyamova, Svetlana Alexeeva, Viktor Anikanov, Valery Artuykhov, Evgeny Bezmenov, Elena Buyanova, Liudmila Volkova, Aleksandr Zhulin, Gennady Korponosov, Viktor Kudriavtsev, Aleksandr Kusnetsov, Elena Levkovets, Alexei Mishin, Nina Mozer, Tamara Moskvina, Evgeni Rukavitsin, Aleksandr Svinin, Mikhail Stifunin, Alexei Suchkov, Tatiana Tarasova, Eteri Tutberidze, Valentina Tiukova

You can find more information about the council and it's members here. I think Eteri is the most recent addition to the group.

*I've bolded the names of some of the more prominent figures in the council.

It's not an official source. And these names are valid on 10.15.2014.
Many of these names are not correct anymore.

official website: https://fsrussia.ru/dokumenty/12-obshchie-dokumenty.html
doc: https://fsrussia.ru/files/docs/coaches_college_2018.pdf