2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Sam-Skwantch]

and not everyone is so pro-TAT and her propaganda.

I love Tats propaganda. It’s like predicting where bouncy ball is gonna bounce to sometimes. I swear it was only a few months ago I was quoting her as someone defending Sasha and her quads. Now I feel like she’s completely changed her tune. Am I wrong?

 

[fabienne1996]

I can only repeat

But fluture is right! Her jumps have been inconsistent since she started to have the fracture in her right ankle. Which is no wonder since it is the foot that holds all the weight when landing a jump. And yes zhenya herself said it her old training mehtods won't work for her anymore. If she stayed with the methods her body would have shut down soon and fast. Sorry but that is just the truth I don't hate or dislike eteri and I did love their close relationship.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Whatever problems Evgenia is having now because of issues with her technique, the fact is that the technique brought her two world titles and an OSM. Had she had more technically sound jumps, she likely would have lacked the consistency that took her to the top of the sport. I think her team's goal at 16 was for her to be World Champion and not necessarily be someone who has great jumps when she's 20. They require two very different approaches, with the former emphasizing consistency over quality and the latter a greater focus on jump technique. Liza was never as consistent as Evgenia was during 2016 and 2017, but Liza is still out there competing long after some very accomplished Russians have faded away. Having said that, I think most anyone would prefer to have Evgenia's competitive results over Liza's.

 

[Fluture]

Say it to Stasya and Kovtun.
Stasya is the other TAT favourite who was pushed already 4 times (JWC17 JWC18 WC18 and now) over these who deserved it more. just because of TAT.
Rusfed and TAT done a lot of work here.. to help Evgenia... by lowering scores to other skaters...... and by giving her a crazy PCS.
Now TAT is pushing Stasya and Evgenia over Liza and Sonya who is obviously more deserved these spots....
yes,.... no influence at all.

Liza is out due to illness. That‘s very unfortunate as she could have easily been the first senior here. But she can fortunately prove she is ready at the Universiade.

Due to that, the fed had to watch out. They knew Alina and Liza are their best shot at a gold medal at the Worlds this year. It was, from the scoring, very clear to me that they wanted Alina and Zhenya (or Sasya) to be the first two seniors and for Liza to be the one being chosen by the coaches council. Poor Sofia probably wasn‘t on their radar. When things got wrong they rewarded both Zhenya’s and Alina‘s skates with ridiculously high PCS in the hope to get things they way they had originally planned them to be. Zhenya‘s SP was ridiculously overscored, so was Alina‘s FS. Stasya is generally always overscored on the national level and I seriously don’t know why.

I didn’t say that TAT had no influence, obviously she has. Stasya‘s multiple appearances last year more than suggest that. And the teams for Euros are settled, at least there Sofia will get her fair chance. And Liza can prove herself at the Universiafe. I think that‘s good. Evgenia really shouldn’t be on the Worlds team this season, no matter what TAT thinks.

 

[Arbitrary]

PCS was never a "decision maker" or "tie breaker." It was intended to potentially be half of the score. That is why the ladies PCS is factored--because the ladies TES was thought to be lower than the men's.

But it was exactly that at the RusNats. PCS is openly used to compensate the too high TES of a certain skater because another one, starting earlier, received some basic PCS and not enough to be positioned above.
Like the 2nd mark it was in 6.0 epoch.

You cannot play too much with TES but PCS is free for all.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Not only wouldn't have the old training technique not worked but destroyed her body really fast and soon,and j do think that the doctors told her that hard truth. Which is why she already said in interviews the old mehtods wouldn't work for her anymore.

Are you suggesting that a doctor diagnosed her specific jump technique?? AND went as far as to deem it as one that is “destroying her body”. I’d love to go to a doctor that understands the finer mechanics of figure skating. One that can determine which technique is more destructive than another. Usually when I break a bone or sprain a muscle they seem amused at how I’ve destroyed my bones “this time”. I swear he grinned a little when I told him I went knee first into the boards and basically broke my knee cap. :dumb:

 

[moriel]

If TAT had indeed so much influence as we thought she had, Evgenia would be going to EC and WC. But she isn‘t. Which means that either she isn‘t as powerful or her propaganda isn‘t working. Personally I find it very dumb that she only complains afterwards when she didn‘t even go to the coaches council. Like, sure, you want Zhenya at these competitions but don‘t even bother to go to the council and make a case for her? What on earth did she expect? Zhenya was the fourth senior at RusNats, it was obvious that even without Liza she would have a hard time getting the last ticket, considering the way the rest of her season went.

I‘m still of the opinion that, after seeing a podium full of juniors, there is a legitimate concern about raising the age limit and it doesn‘t have to do solely with Medvedeva or the Olympics. Sure, the juniors were better that day and deservedly won but still... I can understand the confusion and that people feel like they need to talk about it. I personally don‘t find anything bad in it as long as they don‘t start being ridiculous.

I see it kinda like this...

TAT supported the move enthusiastically since the very beginning, and maybe even before that (she had lots of oportunities to interact with Zhenya during "ice age", for example).
Then, the move didn't turn out that well: instead of a "improved" version of old Zhenya, we had sort of a step back. Is it one of those steps back needed to take two step forward? We cannot know right now.
At Russian nationals, we all seen TAT basically acting as second coach, hanging out, giving pep talks, tips and so on.

Now, rusfed is not happy. Of course, they expected Zhenya to be competing with Alina and Rika this year, not with Samodurova and Tennell.
Piseev said that he thinks that Zhenya should go back to Russia to train, and that he doesn't entirely agree with the approach of taking a two times world champion and scrapping the technique entirely.
Tchaikovskaia (chairmen of the coaches board) basically disapproved of what she seen this year from Zhenya, and ended with a "lets see how it goes".

My guess here is that TAT may have some conflict with rusfed going on right now, as she was the supporter of this project, and now rusfed is unhappy with the results of the thing she supported. Russians being direct, someone could very well have asked her about it: Yes, Zhenya will improve and come back strong next year, but what about this year? We got one medal contender at Worlds, instead of two, and you supported that TAT.

 

[Fluture]

Whatever problems Evgenia is having now because of issues with her technique, the fact is that the technique brought her two world titles and an OSM. Had she had more technically sound jumps, she likely would have lacked the consistency that took her to the top of the sport. I think her team's goal at 16 was for her to be World Champion and not necessarily be someone who has great jumps when she's 20. They require two very different approaches, with the former emphasizing consistency over quality and the latter a greater focus on jump technique. Liza was never as consistent as Evgenia was during 2016 and 2017, but Liza is still out there competing long after some very accomplished Russians have faded away. Having said that, I think most anyone would prefer to have Evgenia's competitive results over Liza's.

And that‘s why she‘s only trying to change her technique NOW and not when it was still working and she won everything. That would have been immensely stupid. What‘s the saying? Don‘t fix a system that ain‘t broken? Well, when she broke her foot last year it was clear that the system was starting - slowly but surely - to break. There is a difference between 2016-2017 Evgenia and Olympics Evgenia. And not only in her jumps but footwork as well. She has to use her upper body much more to do crossovers or twizzles or get control over her steps. It looks much more forced. And this is a fact and something everybody who looks closely at her past and current programs can see and not me playing around with my crystal ball making assumptions because I hate Eteri. I‘m sorry, but this is ridiculous.

Only time will tell whether Evgenia will have a system that works again but at least she had the guts to realise that the system that worked for an admittedly VERY long time and made her very successful, now starts to fail her and that her only chance is to change. I seriously try not to care whether people see that or not but it’s difficult. I‘m happy that Evgenia did what was the right decision for her. And I try to tell myself that when I hear once again that Eteri would have miraculously made Evgenia keep her trademark consistency and jumps if it was clear already last year that this was not the case anymore.

 

[moriel]

Are you suggesting that a doctor diagnosed her specific jump technique?? AND went as far as to deem it as one that is “destroying her body”. I’d love to go to a doctor that understands the finer mechanics of figure skating. One that can determine which technique is more destructive than another. Usually when I break a bone or sprain a muscle they seem amused at how I’ve destroyed my bones this time. I swear he grinned a little when I told him I went knee first into the boards and basically broke my knee cap. :dumb:

I suppose people blame her stress fracture on her poor technique and excessive training.
Forgetting that Satoko Miyahara had a stress fracture and had to skip 2017 worlds.
Forgetting that Hanyu had tons of injuries over the recent years
Forgetting that about every second figure skater has a back injury.

Shurely, their old techniques are destroying their bodies, and they all should immediately leave their coaches and go to someone else.

 

[Fluture]

Are you suggesting that a doctor diagnosed her specific jump technique?? AND went as far as to deem it as one that is “destroying her body”. I’d love to go to a doctor that understands the finer mechanics of figure skating. One that can determine which technique is more destructive than another. Usually when I break a bone or sprain a muscle they seem amused at how I’ve destroyed my bones this time. I swear he grinned a little when I told him I went knee first into the boards and basically broke my knee cap. :dumb:

Not the jump technique, obviously, but the training system of endless repetitions. Zhenya had a stress fracture, it wasn‘t a simple accident from falling from a jump that resulted in her breaking her foot. It‘s very obvious where that came from. Her bone literally cracked due to the pressure that’s been put on it for years. And as to not make it worse she has to find an approach where endless repetitions aren‘t needed.

 

[fabienne1996]

Are you suggesting that a doctor diagnosed her specific jump technique?? AND went as far as to deem it as one that is “destroying her body”. I’d love to go to a doctor that understands the finer mechanics of figure skating. One that can determine which technique is more destructive than another. Usually when I break a bone or sprain a muscle they seem amused at how I’ve destroyed my bones this time. I swear he grinned a little when I told him I went knee first into the boards and basically broke my knee cap. :dumb:

A good doctor will tell you what you have to look out and will advice you what is good or not for your health. Otherwise I would look for another doctor as fast as possible .But hey that's my opinion and I have the right to tell said opinion. And again zhenya said herself her old trainings m3thods won't work for her anymore! So you think you can know better than the skater in question itself? And jumping, jumping, jumping and endless repetitions of it which apparently was her old trainings method woold put a huge strain on her already injured foot , that's to say you dont even need to be a doctor to know that fact. It is still also the truth that Eteri never has trained one of her girls through adulthood. And yes we have hear it from other trainer also that adult bodies need other trainingmethods than pre teen /twenties.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I understand that a lot of Russians like Tarasova have a soft spot for Evgenia because she has accomplished so much in the sport for her country. Medvedeva has certainly earned the respect she gets because of her hard work and desire to constantly improve. At the end of the day, it is a sport and the competitive results really don't allow for Evgenia to advance to Euros or Worlds. She has no strong results this season that would suggest her Nationals finish was an outlier. If she's thinking long term, maybe ending her competitive season now to work through her jump issues might be the best thing for her.

 

[Fluture]

I recall TAT hated Sasha and her quads, then Sasha landed all her quads so TAT was forced to praise her, and now that Sasha stumbled TAT is back to hating.



TAT is not model of consistency. She used to love Radionova and hate Medvedeva, now she loves Medvedeva and calls Radionova fat. I wonder who TAT will be loving and whom she will be calling fat in two years.

Yeah, it‘s entirely possible that if Zhenya doesn‘t improve, TAT will change her mind. I‘m aware of that and I think we all are. When did she hate Zhenya, though?

And when did she say she hates Sasha‘s quads?? Where is that coming from? She literally screamed when Anna landed her 4Lz and from what I could tell it was due to ecstasy and not hate.

 

[fabienne1996]

I suppose people blame her stress fracture on her poor technique and excessive training.
Forgetting that Satoko Miyahara had a stress fracture and had to skip 2017 worlds.
Forgetting that Hanyu had tons of injuries over the recent years
Forgetting that about every second figure skater has a back injury.

Shurely, their old techniques are destroying their bodies, and they all should immediately leave their coaches and go to someone else.

We're did I say that her training was the reason for her injuries (both her back and foot)? Oh yes nowhere I dont spin my words like you need them to suit your commenting and your attidute against soe of us here. I spoke that after such an injury and after changing from a teen body to a woman's body that the old technique would not work anymore. But yes let's take my words and turn them into something absolutely different from what is said.

 

[Fluture]

I understand that a lot of Russians like Tarasova have a soft spot for Evgenia because she has accomplished so much in the sport for her country. Medvedeva has certainly earned the respect she gets because of her hard work and desire to constantly improve. At the end of the day, it is a sport and the competitive results really don't allow for Evgenia to advance to Euros or Worlds. She has no strong results this season that would suggest her Nationals finish was an outlier. If she's thinking long term, maybe ending her competitive season now to work through her jump issues might be the best thing for her.

I absolutely agree that Evgenia should not be on the Euros or Worlds team this season but somehow nobody seems to believe me and think I support TAT’s propaganda, when in fact I find it only mildly amusing that she’s complaining afterwards without even having attended the coaches council. Probably it‘s again the case that people eye me warily like, ”You, with Zhenya‘s avatar“ would never say something like that. Honestly, it wouldn’t do Zhenya any good to be at Worlds in her mental state. I‘m just salty about the Universiade but oh well, there goes that.

 

[moriel]

I love Tats propaganda. It’s like predicting where bouncy ball is gonna bounce to sometimes. I swear it was only a few months ago I was quoting her as someone defending Sasha and her quads. Now I feel like she’s completely changed her tune. Am I wrong?

Nah, TAT loves Sasha's quads.
She just wants her to compete separately from her senior favs.

 

[fabienne1996]

I absolutely agree that Evgenia should not be on the Euros or Worlds team this season but somehow nobody seems to believe me. Probably it‘s again the case that people eye me warily like, ”You, with Zhenya‘s avatar“ would never say something like that. Honestly, it wouldn’t do Zhenya any good to be at Worlds in her mental state. I‘m just salty about the Universiade but oh well, there goes that. [emoji23]

Na some people do love to twist words of other comments to suit their need. You can say it a thousand times same with the fact that most do not hate eteri or dislike her but as soon as you say something like that the old trainings method would not have worked for long anymore they are like you hate her ect. Pp. I don't know wether I should be laughing about those people or be angry that the take my words and turn them around to suit their needs

 

[moriel]

We're did I say that her training was the reason for her injuries (both her back and foot)? Oh yes nowhere I dont spin my words like you need them to suit your commenting and your attidute against soe of us here. I spoke that after such an injury and after changing from a teen body to a woman's body that the old technique would not work anymore. But yes let's take my words and turn them into something absolutely different from what is said.

"Not only wouldn't have the old training technique not worked but destroyed her body really fast and soon"
If you are not talking about her injuries last season, then what exactly are you talking about? Please bring references, links to interviews and so on.

 

[fabienne1996]

"Not only wouldn't have the old training technique not worked but destroyed her body really fast and soon"

Yes after her injuries. I did not say that the training was the reason for said injury . Please learn to interpret some comments correctly, and if you don't know what I meant than ask if I meant it this way or another way. Don't just take part of the comment and than write that I blame he training aka eteri!

 

[fabienne1996]

"Not only wouldn't have the old training technique not worked but destroyed her body really fast and soon"
If you are not talking about her injuries last season, then what exactly are you talking about? Please bring references, links to interviews and so on.

And again what do you think would happen with a foot which ankle literally almost shattered and you still go on with the training like nothing happened? Once broken said bone is much more prone to break again. That's what my doctor told me years ago when I had a serious broken arm, where the break was so complicated that I had to be operated as soon as possible. They had to cut through muscles, I do think also nerves to reset my bones. They also told me it could be that because of that I would loose a bit of feeling in my hand. I was lucky that I didn't have that problem