2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Alexz]

Thank you
Forgive me for being skeptical still) I appreciate your dedication to learning about Tchaikovskaya and Eteri, but I would be believe an official news source over hearsay

You also said that Tchaikovskaya brought Eteri back from America to Moscow. This is untrue from my own research.
Eteri did coach a few Russian schools before Sambo, she had trouble finding work. Tchaikovskaya told Eteri that she could not help, though Eteri was ready to train for free. This was from interview with Eteri.

I have read a couple of interviews and Tchaikovskaya is stingy with both praise and criticism when talking to reporters. Someone translated an interview here earlier this season where the reporter was trying to get Tchaikovskaya to say that Eteri and her girls carried the Olympic team, but Tchaikovskaya kept saying that the team silver was a team effort [emoji23] so I have always thought her a fair person.

But maybe you are right, she is true power behind Russian ladies [emoji23]

Tchaikovskaya has a mean side, though. In that same interview she told a reporter she knows all the real information of what happened with Zhenya and Eteri but we poor fans still know nothing.
Why does Tchaikovskaya tease us like that? :sad21:

I said probably. And I did mentioned that Eteri was in Moscow before Tchaikovskaya got her new building. So then Eteri was coaching somewhere else and was looking for a job Tchaikovskaya herself was working somewhere else and therefore had no spot for Eteri. I checked construction year of Khrustalny - 2003. I wonder did Tchaikovskaya coach there before Yantar? Do you know / can find out? But according to the video above when Sambo-70 had build Yantar, Tchaikovskaya moved there right away and announced that she is going to bring Russian coaches back. She offered Zueva to move back too.

I am not sure myself if Tchaikovskaya it. But she is clearly a force of influence at Sambo-70. And my friend said he saw Eteri at Yantar when he was picking up his kiddo. Tchaikovskaya was speaking something very passionately and Eteri was quiet and all ears. Besides, there is no "the one and only" force in Russian FS. They are pretty democratic - they vote their decisions and stuff. If I'm not mistaken Elena Zhgun was on the Coaches Council at some point in the past too. She was Kostornaya's coach, and her credentials looks very solid and amazing from academic standpoint. Eteri and Tchaikovskaya are currently on RusFed Coaches Council. And all 3 of them seem to be a clan - Sambo-70 family.

Alyona Kostornaya and Anna Shcherbakova are their joint "daughters" - prodiges from Sambo-70 FS program. And Sasha came from provincial Ryazan to Sambo-70 later and was immediately sent to Eteri group. Eteri group seems to be the elitists group of Sambo-70 where all coaches of Tchaikovskaya are sending their most promising students when they reach certain level. Sambo-70 looks to have a very tight fs department and a very organized "syndicate"! Look, any coach will make a lot of stink and noise if Eteri poached their precious students like Shcherbakova and Kostornaya. And yet we heard no drama at all. This is so unRussian! Anna and Sasha were just calmly moved from their Sambo-70 coaches to Eteri (another Sambo-70 coach). And transition form one coach to another looks to be smooth. Both technically and emotionally. Alyona was a good elegant skater at Tchaikovskaya's ice rink and flourished under Eteri even more. No drama. Tchaikovskaya did not accuse Eteri at stealing students from her coaches. Eteri just picked Alyona where previous coach left her at and immediately gave her a new choreography and Daniil and Dudakov started polishing Alyona further. Even though Alyona still was competing her previous programs for couple of months. But in general transition process to Eteri group and her methods was smooth. And Alyona immediately became a star last year - people start talking about her right away after her successful performance at competitions under the Eteri flag. So there are some similar standards and joint methods between Tchaikovskaya and Eteri. Anna Shcherbakova was at the same Khrustalny ice rink with a junior coach, and her transition to Eteri group was also smooth. She immediately picked up techniques and Eteri group style. Optics for press and techicalities of her move was barely noticeable. No drama. TAT midwifed poaching Zhenya from Eteri to Orser, and optics of that was horrible, PR was not handled well. Drama and messy stuff in the press. Dirty laundry. And some proof too actually this time. In the form of published whatsupp screenshots. Wi hope at least it was worth it, but Order so far still did not find the proper magic formula for Zhenya. Whatever TAT and Order promised her and her mother. Although he is asking patience from his for 2 years. So, we will see. I desperately want Zhenya to succeed.

Will see if TAT clan can prove their point with this Eteri-Zhenya-Orser affair. While TAT+Besti seem to be on another side of the RusFed chessboard, they are CSKA lobby mafia. They pushed Lenok Radionova for 3rd spot once, while everyone and her mother thought other girl deserved that spot more. CSKA was losing a lot of grounds lately (and probably finances and influence because of that too). They clearly don't like Sambo-70 cashing out almost everything in single Ladies on international scene for the recent 6-7 years (starting with Yulia). So they poached Zhenya and send her to Brian Orser to prove their point, whatever it may be. This probably explains such big interest and emotional investment by TAT in Zhenya. And gossips spreading from Orser camp.

Can you link me this Tchaikovskaya's and Eteri's interviews you are speaking about? Curious!

Why Tchaikovskaya teases? Well probably her corporate ethics are high above everything else. Something what others are clearly lacking (whoever is leaking and spreading that rubbish to TSL's chatty prats). But I think Sambo-70 clan would hit harder and more painfully if they would have to.

Besides Tchaikovskaya and her methods are appreciated at RusFed. (not talking about age or jumping techniques here, that's debatable). Seems like Tchaikovskaya are now bigger than TAT & Co. Tchaikovskaya is a head of Coaches Council. The very group of prominent people which are in charge of major decisions like spots for Euros, Worlds and GP and Tchaikovskaya is chairing it now since September 2018: https://tass.ru/sport/5547568 So she is the boss. Even though they all vote equally. TAT did not showed up at their recent meeting after RusNats and was very vocal in the press about Medvedeva's spot as second alternative. Oh, TAT. She does not like loosing power and influence. If Zhenya-new-technique thing with Orser does not play out well in Zhenya's favor, I will be personally mad at TAT. I love Zhenya. But TAT's intrigues and drama are getting old already.

 

[Alexz]

I am a woman. I am a woman of a certain age. I am a feminist.

From what I have seen, I do not like Eteri's methods. I do not like the way she, an adult woman, gossips about teenagers. I do not think she is honest, with herself or with anyone else, let alone "brutally" honest. She is about as far from a feminist figure as you can get, for me. I also don't think, as I have stated in another thread, that quads quads quads is the evolution of a sport, sport, sport, pushing envelopes, breaking boundaries, but that is another issue, and not relevant here

I am not certain how saying that folks who hold that opinion are "losers on an FS forum" will get us to change our minds?

You are entitled to your own opinion. Take a cookie. Who said anything about you personally?

 

[jhcorb01]

Evgenia went to Brian because she wants longevity and to be known as an artistic skater. Her body simply could not sustain Eteri's training methods and techniques. It was clearly causing her back problems, which she is still struggling with. I simply don't understand why people cannot understand this.

https://imgur.com/a/c4f2fUR

What a difference a year makes. She looks so much healthier and normal now.

 

[sx98423]

Evgenia went to Brian because she wants longevity and to be known as an artistic skater. Her body simply could not sustain Eteri's training methods and techniques. It was clearly causing her back problems, which she is still struggling with. I simply don't understand why people cannot understand this.

https://imgur.com/a/c4f2fUR

What a difference a year makes. She looks so much healthier and normal now.

this doesn't make any sense since zhenya has always been the "artistic one". and has brian ever been known to be a coach for longevity? yuna left him, a lot of his skaters have pretty serious injuries that have miraculously not been career ending. if zhenya thinks this move is right for her then i support that and if brian's training works for her than i'll be supper happy about it but let's not pretend he's the coach to go to for artistry and longevity.

 

[malya]

I fear that Gubanova will miss out on GB assignments again next year. She is currently ranked #10 russian on the SB list, and there is max 9 girls from each country if they all get 2 assignments. Plus, Konstantinova (ranked below her) and Radionova/Pogorilaya (if they return) will probably get assignments ahead of her, so Gubanova is in reality ranked ~#13 which is not enough.:sad4:

Who knows what is going to happen? You can't really predict the future with the russian ladies.

This season Sofia only had one GP spot (only got the host pick because she won a surprise medal!) and look where she is now
Radionova was not in shape and withdrew for Leonova, who nobody expected to see.
For next season people have already expressed their doubt about some other ladies (Masha might focus on studies / RusFed might try to bypass Sima / someone said Liza wants to retire? /...) so maybe Gubanova will get her chances.

 

[Alexz]

it is funny how TSL chatterboxes were thrashing Zhenya for years before and now they changed their tune.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Evgenia went to Brian because she wants longevity and to be known as an artistic skater. Her body simply could not sustain Eteri's training methods and techniques. It was clearly causing her back problems, which she is still struggling with. I simply don't understand why people cannot understand this.

https://imgur.com/a/c4f2fUR

What a difference a year makes. She looks so much healthier and normal now.

But she went to Orser who in reality has had plenty of injured skaters using his training methods. Personally I wouldn’t feel right blaming either Eteri or Orser’s methods for injuries to their top skaters though. I think they both try to minimize any risks to their athletes. Wasn’t Gabby with TCC since 2015? We could probably even show a similar before and after picture but IMO it’s misleading.

I have no issues with Zhenya going to TCC. I think it’s kind of cool actually but I’m not yet convinced if it’s a great decision or if she has taken a risk that might not payoff. It’s still going to take some time. If it works or doesn’t work is probably mostly on Zhenya anyway. Coaches coach but skaters are the ones who have to take that info and run with it.

A part of me just thinks Zhenya’s struggle and metamorphosis is coincidental more than coaching related. Like it all may have happened regardless of the coach change or not. Seems as reasonable as any other speculation I’ve read. YMMV.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Who knows what is going to happen? You can't really predict the future with the russian ladies.

This season Sofia only had one GP spot (only got the host pick because she won a surprise medal!) and look where she is now
Radionova was not in shape and withdrew for Leonova, who nobody expected to see.
For next season people have already expressed their doubt about some other ladies (Masha might focus on studies / RusFed might try to bypass Sima / someone said Liza wants to retire? /...) so maybe Gubanova will get her chances.

It’s been a safe prediction for years that Gubanova will not be given a chance

 

[Tavi...]

But she went to Orser who in reality has had plenty of injured skaters using his training methods. Personally I wouldn’t feel right blaming either Eteri or Orser’s methods for injuries to their top skaters though. I think they both try to minimize any risks to their athletes. Wasn’t Gabby with TCC since 2015? We could probably even show a similar before and after picture but IMO it’s misleading.

I have no issues with Zhenya going to TCC. I think it’s kind of cool actually but I’m not yet convinced if it’s a great decision or if she has taken a risk that might not payoff. It’s still going to take some time. If it works or doesn’t work is probably mostly on Zhenya anyway. Coaches coach but skaters are the ones who have to take that info and run with it.

A part of me just thinks Zhenya’s struggle and metamorphosis is coincidental more than coaching related. Like it all may have happened regardless of the coach change or not. Seems as reasonable as any other speculation I’ve read. YMMV.

All coaches have injured skaters at some point. The bottom line is that Zhenya felt she needed a change and she chose to go to Orser. None of us know for sure what she’s been dealing with or why she made the decision, and frankly, it’s really not up to us to judge whether it was right or wrong.

I don’t think everyone has to be a fan of Zhenya’s but I do find the constant criticism and judgment in this thread pretty appalling.

 

[Vandevska]

I know this is beating a dead horse, but I'm still gonna post here what I wrote in Zhenya's thread.

To be honest, when I think about why Zhenya left Eteri, I think it's because of something personal instead of the rigorous training process. Zhenya and Eteri are truly similar since they spent so much time together, and in the grand scheme of things I think both of them would get upset over something that to another person might not make sense. So, I think that it was because of something that we might not even think of instead of just Zhenya being tired of the training process. She obviously was deeply hurt by something, but we can only speculate what that was.

 

[malya]

It’s been a safe prediction for years that Gubanova will not be given a chance

At RusNats? Yes. RusNats judging did not give her or Nastya Tarakanova any chances.

She needs to have one great, 100% clean outing internationally and then conistently continiue the same way to stop this lowballing at Nats... (so basically, Sofia 2.0 ) If you don't have reputation or insanely high BV it's an uphill struggle to get noticed...

I would also like to see more of Tarusina, she seems really consistent too

 

[Skater Boy]

btw, here is a video of this Yantar sport complex official opening and presentation for TV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAmfCIF1aDE The training facility was build by Sambo-70 in 2010.

Interesting. Elena Tchaikovskaya told that she is going to bring Russian coaches back from Canada and US. What year did Eteri make her comeback to Russia from US? I guess this is it. This was probably Elena Tchaikovskaya who invited Eteri to Sambo-70 and back to Russia. Although, IFAIK Eteri previously had been coaching somewhere else in Moscow before getting hired by Sambo-70. And Eteri is at another ice rink - at Khrustalny, not Yantar. But curious.

BTW, Elena Tchaikovskaya was promised her own ice rink after Maria Butyrskaya won Worlds (was it in '96, right?). So 14 years later she got a new shiny building, and probably pulled Eteri from US to Moscow to coach kids. So we need to thank Maria Butyrskaya's gold medal for Alyona Kostornaya (and probably Eteri). Ha! Alyona started skating in this new training facility which was build because of Tchaikovskaya reputation and Butyrskaya's gold medal. :cool2:

I guess: "Spasibo, Masha Butyrskaya! Now we have Alyona Kostornaya because of you!" (on probably Eteri because of the new Yantar building and Tchaikovskaya's invitation) :agree: Where is our @mrrice when you need one? No one can appreciate Butyrskaya better than him.

Maria B won her world gold in 1999.

 

[alvina9894]

At RusNats? Yes. RusNats judging did not give her or Nastya Tarakanova any chances.

She needs to have one great, 100% clean outing internationally and then conistently continiue the same way to stop this lowballing at Nats... (so basically, Sofia 2.0 ) If you don't have reputation or insanely high BV it's an uphill struggle to get noticed...

I would also like to see more of Tarusina, she seems really consistent too

Tarusina is by far the most consistent Russian lady. Other than that invalid spin in JGP and on some occasions getting ! on her lutz, she has not made a single mistake for 17 competitions in a row since mid-2016/17 season.

TBH it's quite bizarre to me how some skaters get pushed while repeatedly bombing international competitions, while other equally good but much more consistent skaters were never given a chance.

 

[atsumiri]

it is funny how TSL chatterboxes were thrashing Zhenya for years before and now they changed their tune.

same about .... some youtube users))) And other users .... lets say ... from twitter and instagram and forums. Well, that was a really quick turnaround.

 

[skatenewbie]

I fear that Gubanova will miss out on GB assignments again next year. She is currently ranked #10 russian on the SB list, and there is max 9 girls from each country if they all get 2 assignments. Plus, Konstantinova (ranked below her) and Radionova/Pogorilaya (if they return) will probably get assignments ahead of her, so Gubanova is in reality ranked ~#13 which is not enough.:sad4:

this is the 273637 times i said it, but she WILL get a GP. ANYONE who is in top24 SB list is GUARANTEED 1 GP event. Even if she's 10th skater she still get 1. Next season probably only 6-7 skaters got 2 GP spot while other get 1 spot since they are guaranteed and will get it no matter what.(unless they are juniors like Kanyshve who is not eligible for seniors/skaters who will spend another season in junior)

 

[atsumiri]

I said probably. And I did mentioned that Eteri was in Moscow before Tchaikovskaya got her new building. So then Eteri was coaching somewhere else and was looking for a job Tchaikovskaya herself was working somewhere else and therefore had no spot for Eteri. I checked construction year of Khrustalny - 2003. I wonder did Tchaikovskaya coach there before Yantar? Do you know / can find out? But according to the video above when Sambo-70 had build Yantar, Tchaikovskaya moved there right away and announced that she is going to bring Russian coaches back. She offered Zueva to move back too.

official website: about Eteri and Khrustalny http://самбо-70.рф/sport/zapas/Khrystaln

google translated: Since 1999 - Senior Coach of the Figure Skating Department of the Sports School №8 (Moscow). In 2008, she started working as a senior trainer at School for Children and Youth Sporting School No. 37 (Moscow), which in 2013 was transformed into the Khrustalny branch of the Center for Sport and Education Sambo-70 of Moskomsport.
So Eteri started to work In school than was renamed/transformed/reconstructed to Khrustalny as a part of Sambo-70 since 2008. before Tchaikovskaya

but Eteri herself was coached by Elena Tchaikovskaya for a short time.

 

[Jontor]

this is the 273637 times i said it, but she WILL get a GP. ANYONE who is in top24 SB list is GUARANTEED 1 GP event. Even if she's 10th skater she still get 1. Next season probably only 6-7 skaters got 2 GP spot while other get 1 spot since they are guaranteed and will get it no matter what.(unless they are juniors like Kanyshve who is not eligible for seniors/skaters who will spend another season in junior)

Thank you! This clear things up a bit. Does Leonova count at #25 on the SB list if we remove Kanysheva at #21 who is still junior next year??

 

[malya]

this is the 273637 times i said it, but she WILL get a GP. ANYONE who is in top24 SB list is GUARANTEED 1 GP event. Even if she's 10th skater she still get 1. Next season probably only 6-7 skaters got 2 GP spot while other get 1 spot since they are guaranteed and will get it no matter what.(unless they are juniors like Kanyshve who is not eligible for seniors/skaters who will spend another season in junior)

In a dream world maybe

If RusFed did not intervene, high profile skaters like Alina, Zhenya, Liza or Alena, Sasha and Anna (Anna is russian senior champion, but her SB is not THAT high) might get only 1 GP and no chance of a second. If they don't bomb, I have a feeling Konstantinova and Samodurova will also be pushed to get 2 GPs.

--> 8x2 = 16/18 spots taken.

Someone like Lena Radionova will never be allowed to enforce the 'comeback rule' to get GP spots without official approval... and others like Tarusina, Tarakanova will be recommended to stay in juniors. Before her big win, many thought the same would happen to Anna S.

 

[malya]

In a dream world maybe

If RusFed did not intervene, high profile skaters like Alina, Zhenya, Liza or Alena, Sasha and Anna (Anna is russian senior champion, but her SB is not THAT high) might get only 1 GP and no chance of a second. If they don't bomb, I have a feeling Konstantinova and Samodurova will also be pushed to get 2 GPs.

--> 8x2 = 16/18 spots taken.

Someone like Lena Radionova will never be allowed to enforce the 'comeback rule' to get GP spots without official approval... and others like Tarusina, Tarakanova will be recommended to stay in juniors. Before her big win, many thought the same would happen to Anna S.

And I completely forgot Masha, who should get 2 GP spots next year due to her world ranking

Russia really has too many deserving women. I'm already curious how next season plays out!

 

[[email protected]]

it is funny how TSL chatterboxes were thrashing Zhenya for years before and now they changed their tune.

What about GS? I personally got occassional labels like "aggressive patriotism" while a couple of years ago supporting Zhenya against the tsunami of critics here. Where are all they now? Now somehow I became "the critic".