2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Sam-Skwantch]

I think to some extent any "greatest skater of Russia" (or any nation/generation) is going to have some bias based on your favorites.

I know this thread has a recurring theme about longevity being a true indicator of greatness and I know there is an inherent need for people to rank greatest skater ever but I’m like meh :handw:

I actually think it’s a great honor to be a part of this current generation of Russian Ladies skating. I mean who cares about being the best or about having the longest career when just being a a part of something so amazing has a lot of merit in and of itself. IMO it actually adds to the greatness of seeing Sofya’s success this season. I think they all push each other and have contributed to the level of overall figure skating we now see on the world stage. If I remember correctly 2 out of 18 skaters didn’t do a 3-3 at Russian Nats SP (Masha and Zhenya) and that was due to error. It’s simply amazing IMO :noshake:

I don’t know...I guess being the best means something a little different to people. I think it’s awesome that I know so many skaters and simply because of their talent. I’ve been following skating a long time and seeing so many skaters reach this level of talent has been far more exciting than about anything else I’ve seen. Heck...I don’t even think l I know who favorite skaters are. I certainly don’t look down on anyone who can’t make it long in this field. In fact I respect them as much as anyone else. So who’s the greatest? I can’t answer that...maybe I don’t even care. I think this is the most impressive field I’ve ever seen and I think each and every skater should take a bit of pride in that.

 

[rlopen]

I think to some extent any "greatest skater of Russia" (or any nation/generation) is going to have some bias based on your favorites. I would argue that you're biased towards Evgenia because you're her fan, which is completely fine and understandable. I agree that Evgenia was very dominant, more so than Alina, but she was facing relatively weaker fields (no Rika Kihira, and Liza Tuk was not doing her best). She also kept basically the same program layout for both short and free for at least 2, maybe even 3 seasons in a row. I would argue that her dominance was in large part thanks to the genius of Eteri, though ultimately that strategy failed her.

Also, it is incredibly unfair to dismiss Alina's amazing season and Olympic Gold Medal as "one who was just lucky enough to have a good streak at just the right time." Seriously? Even Alina's critics this season will admit she had a fabulous last season. And in saying that, you are basically also dismissing over half of the Olympic women's gold medalists in figure skating history. Do you really want to go there? Comments like yours are exactly why people retire right after winning the OGM.

Alina did have the most impressive debut season of all time, but if Alina was a YEAR younger, Evgenia would be the Olympic champion. If Mao Asada was a year older, there would have been a good chance that she would have gotten the gold medal had she gone clean. If Michelle went clean, Sarah Hughes would have likely not been Olympic champion. I admit that this is pure conjecture, but in order to be Olympic champion, which is much rarer than World champion, you have to have a fair amount of luck (more so than being World champion) in terms of staying healthy, peaking at that right exact moment, not having young junior upstarts with better technical content be born before July 1st, etc.

Evgenia was unlucky...a young phenom who was better at the technical elements than her became senior that Olympic season, she was plagued with injuries, etc.

Shizuka Arakawa, on the other hand, was lucky. A young phenom who was better than her with the technical elements was born after July 1st, both of her main competitors fell and she went clean, etc.

Being Olympic champion almost always requires not just skill, but also some luck simply because of how rare it is. But I digress, Alina was not just “lucky” last season...she was the best. Period. And she’s proven enough IMO at this point especiallly when almost every other teenage Olympic champion we’ve had has been someone like Sotnikova, Baiul, Lipinski, Hughes, etc. The only teenage Olympic champion we’ve had that really stuck around and actually had solid results afterwards was Yuna and that’s because she felt like she had to, not because she truly wanted to.

 

[Jontor]

I know this thread has a recurring theme about longevity being a true indicator of greatness and I know there is an inherent need for people to rank greatest skater ever but I’m like meh :handw:

I actually think it’s a great honor to be a part of this current generation of Russian Ladies skating. I mean who cares about being the best or about having the longest career when just being a a part of something so amazing has a lot of merit in and of itself. IMO it actually adds to the greatness of seeing Sofya’s success this season. I think they all push each other and have contributed to the level of overall figure skating we now see on the world stage. If I remember correctly 2 out of 18 skaters didn’t do a 3-3 at Russian Nats SP (Masha and Zhenya) and that was due to error. It’s simply amazing IMO :noshake:

I don’t know...I guess being the best means something a little different to people. I think it’s awesome that I know so many skaters and simply because of their talent. I’ve been following skating a long time and seeing so many skaters reach this level of talent has been far more exciting than about anything else I’ve seen. Heck...I don’t even think l I know who favorite skaters are. I certainly don’t look down on anyone who can’t make it long in this field. In fact I respect them as much as anyone else. So who’s the greatest? I can’t answer that...maybe I don’t even care. I think this is the most impressive field I’ve ever seen and I think each and every skater should take a bit of pride in that.

Amen to that. Russian Nationals this year was, by far, the greatest ladies event I have ever seen. ALL OF THEM could have been potential medal candidates for Europeans. That's insane!! That said, I do think a best-ever-skater-discussion is fun and interesting. A lot of people have different views and all of that come together in fascinating best-of-lists. My heart will always belong to Butyrskaya but I recognize that Slutskaya beats her by merit. Anyways, it all doesn't matter in the end - there will never be a definite answer to the queation who was/is the greatest skater.

 

[lesnar001]

I know I am in an alternate universe when 3 Golds and 2 Silvers is "totally going in the opposite direction"

BTW I am not neccessarily saying Alina is the "greatest all time ladies skater of Russia" - I think longevity plays a part in that too.

But she didn't "luck out" and win Gold at the Olympics. Far from it.

She won the Gold Medal when the top 4 skaters all skated brilliantly.

For Pete's sake, how often does that happen in ANY competition, never mind the Olympics.

Ironically, some of the complaints about how badly she's doing this season would probably be "She's a Quitter" if she didn't skate this season.

So, I guess for poor Alina, she can't "win" no matter what she does.

....Well, except for the 3 Golds and 2 Silvers that she's won so far this season.

 

[jillredhand]

Also, it is incredibly unfair to dismiss Alina's amazing season and Olympic Gold Medal as "one who was just lucky enough to have a good streak at just the right time." Seriously? Even Alina's critics this season will admit she had a fabulous last season. And in saying that, you are basically also dismissing over half of the Olympic women's gold medalists in figure skating history. Do you really want to go there? Comments like yours are exactly why people retire right after winning the OGM.

I neither actually said, nor actually think that Alina "just got lucky"- obviously she's immensely talented and won her OGM fair and square. I pointed out that Evgenia's two seasons of dominance was due in part to the luck of having relatively weak competition. I would have no problem with a statement that said Alina was the greatest skater of the 2017-18 season, since that's pretty indisputable, even with the Worlds loss. My point is more that only one season of results, even a great season, is not enough to crown a Greatest Russian Skater of All Time.

And, while I don't mean to dismiss the immense achievement of winning the OGM, I don't think it's controversial to say that winning it doesn't de facto make you the greatest skater of your country, or of a particular era. No one thinks that Lipinsky or Hughes or Sotnikova are the greatest skaters of all time or of their country- but people do make that argument for Kim and Witt and Yamaguchi, because they demonstrated dominance and consistency over a longer period of time. Overly venerating the OGM as the pinnacle of the sport, the award that outshines and outweighs all other achievements no matter how many or noteworthy, is the reason why skaters often retire after achieving it young. I bet they'd stay around longer, especially in Ladies when the physical likelihood of remaining at the top for another 4 years is so low, if we didn't treat the OGM as the be all and end all of a skater's career.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Amen to that. Russian Nationals this year was, by far, the greatest ladies event I have ever seen. ALL OF THEM could have been potential medal candidates for Europeans. That's insane!! That said, I do think a best-ever-skater-discussion is fun and interesting. A lot of people have different views and all of that come together in fascinating best-of-lists. My heart will always belong to Butyrskaya but I recognize that Slutskaya beats her by merit. Anyways, it all doesn't matter in the end - there will never be a definite answer to the queation who was/is the greatest skater.

Oh yeah...I totally get that. I wasn’t trying to shut down the discussion which upon rereading my post I might have given off that impression. It’s just...I wouldn’t know how to define the greatest of them all and instead I’m just wimping out and choosing them all. Now if we’re talking greatest performance...I can go there

https://youtu.be/U1wXCZEa_CY?t=6m

I guess maybe only the GOAT can make the greatest performance of them all

 

[hippomoomin]

Can anyone tell me how JW ladies will be selected? How would junior nationals results factor in with senior nationals and JGPF results?

 

[Vandevska]

Can anyone tell me how JW ladies will be selected? How would junior nationals results factor in with senior nationals and JGPF results?

I think it's pretty straightforward with the juniors: first at junior nats go. That said, a stupid question: are there age restrictions for juniors? Like, say Sofia Akatieva places somewhere in the top 3, or someone younger I don't know, can they go to JWorlds?

 

[Edwin]

Russian Junior National Championships is open for skaters of KMC (Candidate Master of Sports) rank.

Akatyeva is still a First Rank gymnast, so not qualified to skate in Jnr Nats and hence not selectable for Junior World Championships.

ISU minimum age for JWC is 13.

 

[Vandevska]

Russian Junior National Championships is open for skaters of KMC (Candidate Master of Sports) rank.

Akatyeva is still a First Rank gymnast, so not qualified to skate in Jnr Nats and hence not selectable for Junior World Championships.

ISU minimum age for JWC is 13.

Thank you! I was interested in the minimum age I guess. It is a bit weird for me that it's 13, I feel like it should be at least 12.

 

[Skater Boy]

Another great skate today by Sofia secured her victory
1st-1st-1st 72.89 - 119.90 - 192.79

Well done! :clapper:

https://youtu.be/Ns35lIIkxSI



(What has happened to her fan fest page?? :scratch3: )

i AM CONFUSED. What is so great about 119 in the fs???

 

[Edwin]

Thank you! I was interested in the minimum age I guess. It is a bit weird for me that it's 13, I feel like it should be at least 12.

For female skaters of 10 to 15 years of age there is an official ISU category of International Novice (with some subdivisions according to level).

So there could be suitable international competitions for girls the age of Akatyeva and Valiyeva.
There is only one International Novice event on the current ISU calendar: https://www.isu.org/events/eventdet...e-figure-skating-competition?templateParam=11

Isn't that the event in Melbourne where Trusova landed her first officially recognised quad jumps in 2017? So it could be Akatyeva/Valiyeva's premiere event as well??

But what is the use of sending those very young Russians to unsanctioned foreign meets, when their results are probably twice as high as the best domestic kids they defeat?
Experience for sure matters, plus the chance to travel, visit places, make friends.

 

[GINO]

Practice groups for the Junior Nationals (without Valieva)
https://www.fsrussia.ru/files/docs/competitons/1819/junnat1819_training_groups.pdf

 

[DenissVFan]

How come the fact that Russia has a junior ladies champion is "nonsense" but when the US has a novice ladies champion it's not? They should at least apply the same criteria to everybody.

The author could have expressed the same concerns in a less condescending way.

 

[Vandevska]

"Samodurova and Konstantinova, the most physically mature of the Russian squad in Minsk, stated firmly that they were there to last in the sport."

This was such a poor article, I can't even articulate it.

 

[DenissVFan]

"Samodurova and Konstantinova, the most physically mature of the Russian squad in Minsk, stated firmly that they were there to last in the sport."

This was such a poor article, I can't even articulate it.

One of the worst bits

 

[Vandevska]

You can clearly see that the author is against Eteri, not even so much against Russian skaters.

I mean, sure, Sofia is consistent and won, but even some of Stasya's jumps don't look as laboured. Sure, Alina has problems with underrotations and falls or pops or whatever, but there's no comparison when she lands them.

 

[VenusHalley]

Well the article is right in a wwy. Eteri keeps churning young stars... but none of them last.

And do not defend short careers as a good thing. If somebody chooses to retire young... that is one thing... but Yulia did not choose to get anorexia and Evgenia did not choose to have back injury.

 

[Vandevska]

Well the article is right in a wwy. Eteri keeps churning young stars... but none of them last.

And do not defend short careers as a good thing. If somebody chooses to retire young... that is one thing... but Yulia did not choose to get anorexia and Evgenia did not choose to have back injury.

Eteri's methods are questionable, but it's not right to portray it as if her students, or just Russian students have problems with injuries and eating disorders.

 

[MissBeeFarm]

Another great skate today by Sofia secured her victory
1st-1st-1st 72.89 - 119.90 - 192.79

Well done! :clapper:

https://youtu.be/Ns35lIIkxSI



(What has happened to her fan fest page?? :scratch3: )

Sofiya Samodelkina, nice-looking 3Lz + 3Lo with Rippon, yesterday

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtNgssSHmfQ/

:thumbsup:



(That's odd, I'm sure I saw a fan fest for her too, not long ago.)

Fan fests of skaters younger than 13 have been removed. Same with Valieva.

https://goldenskate.com/forum/showt...n-Fest-Index&p=2313043&viewfull=1#post2313043