2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Georgya]

"Kleenex syndrome" Yeah, let's compare Lipnitskaya and Sotnikova with bathroom tissue. Not to mention that Sotnikova has no connection with Eteri Tutberidze.

Also "The system is expanding fast" but let's be condescending only about the russians because "The Caucasian bodies do change much more dramatically than the Asians"- as Japanese coach Mie Hamada said.

Also, am I the only one fed up with this semi false concern about the so called unhappiness of Alina Zagitova? We, as fans, have no right to assume she is miserable unless she tells us straight she is unhappy. It's all over another site, twitter, youtube, and I assume ( maybe wrongly) it's coming from north american commenters because they are the ones that give so much credit to smiling.

As a eastern european, I like to remind that you can smile all day long and still hide a world of pain inside and contemplate suicidal thoughts. I'm more suspicious about people being all smile and sunshine all the time than about those who look gloomy.

Also, I followed the american girls all these years in gymnastics competition, all smile, excitement, happiness, not a clue they were sexually abused during that time. So....think about that.

So unless Alina confesses publicly she is abused by her coach or is unhappy, let's restrain ourselves with speculating.

 

[Edwin]

Jah, USA had its own "Little Girls in Pretty Boxes" scandal in the previous century, which included both gymnastics and figure skating IIRC.
Let's also not forget the abusive coaching methods in US gymnastics by both the Karoliy's, Nunno, Geddert and who else more.
As long as the coaches push their athletes to win the most precious medals at the Olympics, people tend to look the other way.

Mass media of TV and tabloid press diverting attention from the lack of success in a domestic program by attacking a successful foreign program always goes down well with the indiscriminate masses.

 

[GoodMorningGrapeseed]

This article reeks of someone who got their info from youtube comments but didn't bother to fact-check.

 

[Giltedge]

Fan fests of skaters younger than 13 have been removed. Same with Valieva.

https://goldenskate.com/forum/showt...n-Fest-Index&p=2313043&viewfull=1#post2313043

Oh I see. Thanks for pointing that out. What a shame.

 

[zounger]

Let's not make a big deal out of this article, it could have been written even in Russia. It's more of perspective of the journalist rather than research based.

 

[[email protected]]

I really hate the way PCS is currently scored. Some seniors with big reps get overscored, new skaters get underscored despite displaying similar or even superior qualitative skating. Alyona is the most solid all around in the PCS. Sasha deserves solid SS and TR, higher than Liza Tuks and Sofia but is still raw in the performance and interpretive aspects. Anya is vice versa deserving of high performance and musical skills but weaker in SS. They all deserved to be scored according to what they put out rather than juniorish reputation.

I see no problem in how it currently works. In a way it offsets the so-called "prepuberty advantages" of junior skaters. As soon as Alyona becomes senior and remains consistent her pcs should rise very fast. We can see the meteoric rise of Rika's pcs this season. Just a year ago she was behind Alyona and Sasha and now she is one of the top pcs earners among seniors.

And there is not a long time to wait: just until the next season.

 

[Georgya]

Well the article is right in a wwy. Eteri keeps churning young stars... but none of them last.

And do not defend short careers as a good thing. If somebody chooses to retire young... that is one thing... but Yulia did not choose to get anorexia and Evgenia did not choose to have back injury.

I don't suspect Eteri is physically or verbally abusive to her students ( she is not a old communist coach), also I don't think she starves them (she uses methods that are pretty common around the world), but she does another mistake in my opinion. From her interviews (she even has a Putin photo on her desk) I guess she is a very patriotic person and sometimes that is toxic.

I suspect she is trying to motivate/stimulate/manipulate (call it what you like) her students by telling them "make russia proud" or "you have to win for your contry"... 1. There are young athletes who thrive in this kind of environment. 2. Others don't develop properly being under pressure constantly. 3 At 13-14-15 years old you don't think much about it, don't question it, but comes a time when you start to doubt your couch, youself and then you start to fail.

I watched lots of romanian gymnasts interviews and what shocked me was that almost all of them (from 2000 era) said it was way easier to compete at 14 years old than at 17 or 18. Asked why? They said you go and do your job, no questions asked; once you start to question something or doubt it, comes fear, and failure, even if your training is the same or your technique didn't change.

 

[DenissVFan]

Well the article is right in a wwy. Eteri keeps churning young stars... but none of them last.

And do not defend short careers as a good thing. If somebody chooses to retire young... that is one thing... but Yulia did not choose to get anorexia and Evgenia did not choose to have back injury.

This is a valid concern but it's not right to compare skaters to disposable tissues.

 

[[email protected]]

Oh yeah...I totally get that. I wasn’t trying to shut down the discussion which upon rereading my post I might have given off that impression. It’s just...I wouldn’t know how to define the greatest of them all and instead I’m just wimping out and choosing them all. Now if we’re talking greatest performance...I can go there

https://youtu.be/U1wXCZEa_CY?t=6m

I guess maybe only the GOAT can make the greatest performance of them all

That's the GOAT, for sure. The most mesmerizing performance that I have ever seen.

 

[Watch]

Also, am I the only one fed up with this semi false concern about the so called unhappiness of Alina Zagitova? We, as fans, have no right to assume she is miserable unless she tells us straight she is unhappy. It's all over another site, twitter, youtube, and I assume ( maybe wrongly) it's coming from north american commenters because they are the ones that give so much credit to smiling.

Yes and no, kind of? It's pretty clear that she struggles a lot mentally this season and the Euros have shown that it's not getting better at all. There's nothing wrong with being concerned about that. Her coaching team looks concerned as well. And apart from the obvious reasons of OGM pressure, puberty and the goddamn press, I do have questions to the coaches. Like why they don't take out at least a few of the overcomplicated transitions to make it a bit easier on her, for starters. But I'm also sick of the whole overblown "Save Alina!!!" and "She's being abused!" outcry. It hardly seems genuine and this journalist here sure as hell isn't concerned about Alina.

Seriously, how do you write an article like this two days after a 13yo became US Champion?

 

[Lechat]

Good on her for firing back, but screw people who write things like that. Nothing drives me up the wall more than this kind of behaviour. Hateful comments people post elsewhere are bad enough, but posting it where the skater is definitely going to see it? That's so out of line.

Konstantinova finished first among the senior at Rusnat and had the second best free at Europeans. People who write these hateful comments has no clue about how hard it is to train at this level. Even Alina said it once. Stasya is far to be done.

 

[Scott512]

Eteri's methods are questionable, but it's not right to portray it as if her students, or just Russian students have problems with injuries and eating disorders.

very good point. But does this mean american-canadian and Japanese skaters get injured too? And remember only eteri Russian figure skaters get injured no other Russian figure skaters get injured. when Adelina tore her ankle ligaments that required surgery in 2014 at the age of 18 that was not Eteris fault I am sure of that. Nor was it Buyanovas fault. if you are figure skater for many years you're going to have injuries from nagging injuries to Major injuries no one escapes it no matter what country they are from.

 

[Vandevska]

very good point. But does this mean american-canadian and Japanese skaters get injured too? And remember only eteri Russian figure skaters get injured no other Russian figure skaters get injured. when Adelina tore her ankle ligaments that required surgery in 2014 at the age of 18 that was not Eteris fault I am sure of that. Nor was it Buyanovas fault. if you are figure skater for many years you're going to have injuries from nagging injuries to Major injuries no one escapes it no matter what country they are from.

Exactly my point. It doesn't only happen in Russia, and within Russia it doesn't only happen in Eteri's group. From the top of my head I can think of Adam Rippon and Gracy Gold, and the numerous injuries Yuzuru has had. Also, Kaitlyn Osmond.

 

[VenusHalley]

Exactly my point. It doesn't only happen in Russia, and within Russia it doesn't only happen in Eteri's group. From the top of my head I can think of Adam Rippon and Gracy Gold, and the numerous injuries Yuzuru has had. Also, Kaitlyn Osmond.

There were articles about all these people too though. It is not like it is not discussed ever

 

[Scott512]

That's the GOAT, for sure. The most mesmerizing performance that I have ever seen.

Better than her Sochi team free skate? let me watch and compare.

 

[Scott512]

"Kleenex syndrome" Yeah, let's compare Lipnitskaya and Sotnikova with bathroom tissue. Not to mention that Sotnikova has no connection with Eteri Tutberidze.

Also "The system is expanding fast" but let's be condescending only about the russians because "The Caucasian bodies do change much more dramatically than the Asians"- as Japanese coach Mie Hamada said.

Also, am I the only one fed up with this semi false concern about the so called unhappiness of Alina Zagitova? We, as fans, have no right to assume she is miserable unless she tells us straight she is unhappy. It's all over another site, twitter, youtube, and I assume ( maybe wrongly) it's coming from north american commenters because they are the ones that give so much credit to smiling.

As a eastern european, I like to remind that you can smile all day long and still hide a world of pain inside and contemplate suicidal thoughts. I'm more suspicious about people being all smile and sunshine all the time than about those who look gloomy.

Also, I followed the american girls all these years in gymnastics competition, all smile, excitement, happiness, not a clue they were sexually abused during that time. So....think about that.

So unless Alina confesses publicly she is abused by her coach or is unhappy, let's restrain ourselves with speculating.

Agreed. Thank you. in my mind the only thing making Alina unhappy this season are her mistakes in her LP. she still smiles a lot is very warm to her competitors and sets a good example for her younger teammates.

 

[Georgya]

Exactly, I don't dispute the fact that now Alina is in a lot of pressure from herself, her team, maybe her familly, her fans, but this hysteria "let's pray for Alina being safe" is nonsense. I've read here that in a video during her practice at EC Eteri was angry at her. I looked and all I saw was Eteri gesticulating while explaning something. My mother looks like that while she is telling me how much she cares about something or that she loves me But to some people that was proof Eteri was being mean to Alina.

 

[Georgya]

if Christine Brennan wrote this it would be even worse. Shouldn't the writer of this article I've been writing about Alysa Liu and how in the world 13 year old who can't compete on the senior circuit for more than two years from now won US seniors Nationals? Terry Gannon Tara Lipinski and Johnny where we're going bonkers over this girl. I hope she can handle it.

the writer stated that Rika won everything this year her first as a senior. Did she win nationals this year?

today the issue is too much talent with Russian girls and not just of sambo 70. while the Russians are lacking in pairs dance and men for many years they are producing brilliant young lady figure skaters at an incredible rate never seen before in any discipline at any one time in any country. Thats the main reason sone Russian girls are done by 20. If it was 10 years ago Pogorilaya and Radianova would still be competing at a high level and making European championships and World Championship appearances. But they are done now competitively because of the depth of talent much younger than them pushing them to the side. The same will happen to Zhenya and Zagitova. It's a cycle that looks Unstoppable at this point because of the talent of the Russian girls and the desire of their parents to turn them into the next Medvedeva or Zagitova.

:thumbsup:Totally agree!

All this discussion about longevity is so relative and in a way amusing, even that quote from Javier Fernandez who is clearly subjective. Skaters do not owe their fans long-running careers. I want to follow a competition because I want to see the best sportsmen at that moment, not because someone had a long career.

Question! What would you like if you were an athlete (not only figure skater): being in long-running career, but not being dominant or competing at high level 3-4 years and being on top of the world, winning everything? I would chose option number 2.:cool14:

 

[saphire]

There are some valid points made in this article-mainly the Asian vs. Caucasian body types. .

Ironic, that is what annoyed me the most about the article

 

[VenusHalley]

:thumbsup:Totally agree!

All this discussion about longevity is so relative and in a way amusing, even that quote from Javier Fernandez who is clearly subjective. Skaters do not owe their fans long-running careers. I want to follow a competition because I want to see the best sportsmen at that moment, not because someone had a long career.

Question! What would you like if you were an athlete (not only figure skater): being in long-running career, but not being dominant or competing at high level 3-4 years and being on top of the world, winning everything? I would chose option number 2.:cool14:

But as I said, lots of them do not quit by choice. It's not like they say "I won everything, time to move on". They are forced to quit because of mental illness and/or injuries, which is scary. Short careers where you win everything, but burn yourself out... should not be applauded.