2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[lzxnl]

These quads are amazing, congrats to Trusova! However, does anyone feel like quads give too much of an advantage? For example, Shcherbakova has 7 triples + 1 quad + 1 euler. Kostornaia has 7 triples + 2 doubles. I'm fine with quads, but shouldn't they replace a triple in a program rather be in addition to? Seems like the advantage is too much when you can just throw in an extra quad without giving up anything (you give up a double, but they're barely worth anything compared to a quad).

I don't know what's wrong with that. Why shouldn't they replace a double with a quad? Numerically, it makes the most sense, and that pushes skaters to do these jumps. We've already had the base value of quads dropped and only being allowed to repeat one quad. What more do you want?

 

[melgirl25]

I may be living in an alternate universe but I think Alena will have a successful career even without a 3A.

 

[Jammers]

I may be living in an alternate universe but I think Alena will have a successful career even without a 3A.

I think of the big 3 she will be the one to survive to the next Olympics. She doesn't have Eteri's jump technique so i think even with a growth spurt her jumps will survive but i'm not sure about the other two girls with the quads. They are both still tiny and will have to survive puberty and growth spurts before 2022 unlike Alina and Julia who went to the Olympics at the right time before they grew.

 

[sx98423]

I may be living in an alternate universe but I think Alena will have a successful career even without a 3A.

oh i for sure agree but if quads/3As become a consistent thing and alena doesn't get one she'll pretty much have to depend on mistakes of others to win. skaters with quads will win because they did well.

depending on others to fall happens now but i feel like it's different when everyone does triples. all the top senior ladies can more or less do the same jumps so winning still feels like winning even if its cause someone else fell. id imagine winning with only triples while everyone else splats on their quads wouldn't be as exciting or impressive. but idk maybe it'll be something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fFnSRKUBFU

 

[Elucidus]

No, seriously, I don‘t quite get the result but I‘m happy for Sasha. The scores seemed weird today. (Like Sasha getting more PCS than Anna? And only a three points difference to Alena? In what world) but now she‘s won a major title too. Will make Junior Worlds even more interesting. But still... I can‘t help but feel overall disappointment at the way the scoring was handled today and what it did to the outcome.

You all are saying it like it's something unusual for figure skating world I mean, seriously, it always have been TES=PCS standart in judging - like 10-15 years already? There is nothing new. Why you are all so surprised by Trusova's PCS and at the same time perceive as a given Nathan Chen getting ~98 PCS for his UsNat FS? :scratch3: His program is quite similar to Trusova's - there is almost nothing except jumps and preparation steps for them.

Maybe it's because you are not used to men's tech content in ladies skating where PCS usually have more weight/impact on the scores considering that most ladies have quite similar set of elements/base value? So it is expected that ladies should put more focus on artistry? Or it is expected that ladies should be more lady-like on the ice - so when you see boyish program it seems to you as not artistic? Hm, let's see - could you imagine Trusova being a man, performing her FP in man's competition. Easy, isn't it? How much you would assess her PCS score if she was a man? It turns out as a decent program now, isn't it?

 

[Elucidus]

Let's talk about the bronze, which is what Sasha needs to go to Junior Worlds. She might be in 7th place and that seems harsh but in reality, she's four points away from 3rd place. Four points! That seems absolutely doable and I frankly don't know why we should even worry. In my eyes, it's more than clear that she'll make it. Even if she URs a quad and has a fall. Even though I would really be happy for Tarakanova to go to Junior Worlds, it just seems wrong to think that Sasha won't be there. No, I just can't imagine that.

About Alena: If that was true, I would be very happy since she is my favorite junior skater. However, I wouldn't dare to assume anything here about her senior career that is, unfortunately, still only next season. But we all know that in seniors, if you have high BV, the PCS will quickly follow suit. Her advantage in PCS is working now because she's in juniors and she's getting extraordinary PCS for a junior skater. In seniors, however, the others might have caught up with her on that. I also know that she's very consistent and that's great but with her BV that just isn't as high as the other's she will probably be competing with (Rika, Sasha, Anna) she has a smaller margin for error. And she's human, like everybody else. She can't make mistakes or she'll lose any advantage she has. She seldomly makes mistakes, yes, but still... I will always cheer for her and I believe in her but I don't think she will be "unbeatable". I think she will have to fight hard for the top of the podium, just like she does now. But that's okay.

Yeah, I admit I just underestimated her quite a lot And I forgot for a moment that her 4T is more stable jump. Still I stand by my point that Alena will turn in almost unbeatable threat for everyone in senior seasons while quadsters will have more issues with quads consistency than they are having it now. I would be glad to miss the prediction though since I am mostly from "fs is a sport" camp

 

[readernick]

You all are saying it like it's something unusual for figure skating world I mean, seriously, it always have been TES=PCS standart in judging - like 10-15 years already? There is nothing new. Why you are all so surprised by Trusova's PCS and at the same time perceive as a given Nathan Chen getting ~98 PCS for his UsNat FS? :scratch3: His program is quite similar to Trusova's - there is almost nothing except jumps and preparation steps for them.

Maybe it's because you are not used to men's tech content in ladies skating where PCS usually have more weight/impact on the scores considering that most ladies have quite similar set of elements/base value? So it is expected that ladies should put more focus on artistry? Or it is expected that ladies should be more lady-like on the ice - so when you see boyish program it seems to you as not artistic? Hm, let's see - could you imagine Trusova being a boy, performing her FP in man's competition. Easy, isn't it? How much you would assess her PCS score if she was a boy? It turns out as a decent program now, isn't it?

Nathan has more transistions than Trusova but his PCS being so much higher than Jason’s at US nats is terrible and probably would not happen internationally. Trusova has a right to do this type of program. No one thinks she should skate like a princess but PCS should be awarded according to the actual skating separate from the jumps. Wakaba Huguchi’s programs this year and last are great examples of strong programs with good choreo these programs aren’t. The high TES was deserved( GOE was high but it is nationals so that is normal) the high PCS was not but , again, it is nationals. And, PCS is often not scored correctly as you mentioned. So, congrats to her. I do disagree about the program though. It is terrible but that is not Trusova’s fault. Not a fan of the choreo from that group.( you certainly have a right to disagree) I like Dudakov though. He seems like a serious but caring calm coach.

 

[Arbitrary]

The purpose of Quad is to replace some Double. Indirectly.

Trusova and Scherbakova skate FP with no doubles at all. Only 2.5A included.
Full-grade layout of Trusova has 3 quads and one 2A. The Scherbakova's one has two quads and one 2A. Simplified layouts trade one quad for another 2A.

Theoretically, having 3A mastered, Trusova may dramatically upgrade her FP. Double-less free skate may impress the Board.

 

[Elucidus]

All in all, what an impressive event we had!

3A aside I was impressed by Anna Tarusina (as usual) and Ksenia Sinitsina. I never paid attention to Ksenia before but now I have changed my mind. Not only is she a powerful technician - her skating is far from what people name "juniorish". She already has Alina's set of jumps which means that technically she is already at the top, 3A and quad girls aside.

If she keeps cosistency, even without adding triple axel or quads she can dominate the junior circle during the "post 3A year".

Yeah. And to think that she, along with Tarusina and Vasilieva, was pushed under Jelim Kim scores at JGP events for political reasons while being much stronger skater than her both technically and artistically. Disgusting. Well, in the end, spectators in Vancouver just got to see one less great performance for the sake of flags variety - their loss

 

[malya]

Nathan's FS has more transitions than Sasha's?? What am I reading?

Anyways, I'm happy 3A will now deservedly go to jrWorlds! It's a bit sad for the other girls that did very well, but they are just a level above anyone else. I'm very optimistic about our prospects in the jgp next year even without Eteri's new trinity (Maya, Daria & Kamilia).

I guess Tarakanova should stay another season in the JGP because she will not get any senior assignments.

Buianova sat with Tarusina in the K&C so mayyybe she will have a good chance of getting senior GPs next season? She did well in both Nats too, so it's not unjustified and she could impress with consistency and good performance like Sofia - It's a pity about her Lz though

 

[Edwin]

LOL, Dudakov is indeed wearing a #teamtutberidze jumper

 

[skatenewbie]

JGP team will decided at junior test skates right? but based on nats i would say probably we will see

Sinitsyna
Tarakanova
Valieva
Vasilieva
Kanysheva
Usacheva? She's not performing well lately but she's usually good and under Eteri

the rest are kind of gambling, maybe Kromykh/Safonova? Kostyuk usually perform better than this too.

 

[Orlov]

Aah okay. Thank you!

Sorry
It's not me, it's all a google translator Google translate: Алиса = "Alice"

 

[Shanshani]

You all are saying it like it's something unusual for figure skating world I mean, seriously, it always have been TES=PCS standart in judging - like 10-15 years already? There is nothing new. Why you are all so surprised by Trusova's PCS and at the same time perceive as a given Nathan Chen getting ~98 PCS for his UsNat FS? :scratch3: His program is quite similar to Trusova's - there is almost nothing except jumps and preparation steps for them.

Maybe it's because you are not used to men's tech content in ladies skating where PCS usually have more weight/impact on the scores considering that most ladies have quite similar set of elements/base value? So it is expected that ladies should put more focus on artistry? Or it is expected that ladies should be more lady-like on the ice - so when you see boyish program it seems to you as not artistic? Hm, let's see - could you imagine Trusova being a man, performing her FP in man's competition. Easy, isn't it? How much you would assess her PCS score if she was a man? It turns out as a decent program now, isn't it?

A lot of people complain about Nathan's PCS though, especially in the larger figure skating community outside of this forum, and often in more vehement terms. The overwhelming consensus I've seen is that 98 PCS for him at US nats was hyper-inflated (though expected because US Nats scores tend to be that way). People also complained about Boyang Jin's PCS being inflated because of his 4Lz at his senior debut. Now that Stephen Gogolev has made his junior debut, people have been complaining about his PCS too. Fans have been bemoaning overscoring of "jumping beans" and underscoring of artistic skaters for ages in men--I don't think complaints about PCS have much to do with differing expectations of men versus women. For instance, Wakaba Higuchi has programs that aren't stereotypically feminine, but if anything people complain about her PCS being underscored.

Sasha's actually my favorite among the 3A because I like her fierceness and athletic, un-ice princessy demeanor, but I think the complaints that there should have been a bigger gap between her and Alena on PCS are fair.

 

[Azikin]

JGP team will decided at junior test skates right? but based on nats i would say probably we will see

Sinitsyna
Tarakanova
Valieva
Vasilieva
Kanysheva
Usacheva? She's not performing well lately but she's usually good and under Eteri

the rest are kind of gambling, maybe Kromykh/Safonova? Kostyuk usually perform better than this too.

I'd say Khromykh is already better than Usacheva, I still don't understand why she didn't get more chances this season...

 

[Spirals for Miles]

JGP team will decided at junior test skates right? but based on nats i would say probably we will see

Sinitsyna
Tarakanova
Valieva
Vasilieva
Kanysheva
Usacheva? She's not performing well lately but she's usually good and under Eteri

the rest are kind of gambling, maybe Kromykh/Safonova? Kostyuk usually perform better than this too.

I'd say Valieva/Usacheva/Kromykh/Tarakanova/Safonova/Vasilieva/Kanysheva/Sinitsyna will all get spots and then the best 7 will get a second spot (since Russia has an extra spot due to hosting)

Kostyuk has been struggling this season :sad21: it makes me so sad

 

[malya]

Panova's girls (except Sinitsyna!) have been really struggling with UR's in this competition... Alena took out her lz-lo combinations from both programs again, probably because she had trouble fully rotating the 3lz?

Hopefully they will be able to work on it for the junior test skates next season.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Sasha's actually my favorite among the 3A because I like her fierceness and athletic, un-ice princessy demeanor, but I think the complaints that there should have been a bigger gap between her and Alena on PCS are fair.

I don’t suspect they’ll be quite as close internationally but Sasha is going to score between 7.5 and 8.5 pcs regularly and I think that is absolutely fair. If both hit their best performances you’re going to regularly see ~4-8 pts difference in Alena’s favor in each program.

TBH I think asking Sasha to be scored ~7.5 is a little stingy here. I’d have scored Sasha ~8.5’s at Jr Nats and Alena ~9.5. That would give a pretty fair advantage to Alena which IMO accurately depicts the difference between the two at this event. Alena’s real problem is that Sasha performs her SP very well and even with a fall isn’t going to lose enough points to make a real difference after a clean FS.

 

[j00mla]

I'd say Khromykh is already better than Usacheva, I still don't understand why she didn't get more chances this season...

She joined the team later than others, so her programs were also ready later. Then she had a minor injury.

 

[SkateSkates]

I'd say Khromykh is already better than Usacheva, I still don't understand why she didn't get more chances this season...

I hope she skated well at Elder Age nationals (assuming she qualifies). Although a bit lanky and clearly still adjusting to her height, she actually has good basic skating skills and ice coverage that is nice to see for someone so young.