2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

[lanceupper1114]

I actually think it would have been ok for Gracie to have two very weak skates at Rostelecom since she's just back from years off, but she created larger expectations by having difficult planned jump layouts and saying its "on-brand" to comeback at a difficult competition; then she had simple jump content and then WD? Two complete contrasts.

 

[Icey]

So you're saying, if the freeskate got cancelled like what happened in France a few years back, the said skater shouldn't get a bye?

Not really, but even then, there could be a required minimum score and placement in the short program.

 

[hippomoomin]

Basic knowledge of psychology would suggest choice of words reflect a person's state of mind and personality. Hyperboles are typically used to impress, to emphasize or to be humorous. Word choice such as "small competition" "tiny competition" in Gracie's interview reflected her thinking. I remember Gracie was pretty realistic and rational in previous interviews. At Sochi she was 4th after the sp, and when reporters asked her something like how she would think her prospective to get on the podium, she said it was 4th but the score gap between hers and the 3rd was pretty big, and it is possible but unlikely for her to be on the podium.

Can you image if Karen or Ashley said the same thing how much backlash they would receive?

 

[Skater Boy]

I think if Gracie goes to Nationals, she should consider using an easier layout, like Carolina Kostner did when she came back after her disastrous result at Vancouver. Throw in solo 3T in the long and substitute a 3sal for the flip in the short. Maybe just aim for a 3lz-2T. Her goal should be to skate clean,not to win or medal. If she could achieve higher GOE on easier jumps, things might work in her favor.

Good point - I wonder if she could do 3T3T and say a 3lutz which isn't that much easier or like you suggested. The challenge with following this thread and tryingto get a real grasp of gracie is that we ahve so many uber fans and that might tilt perception and then we just don't really know. I want to give Gracie the benefit ofthe doubt that it was a melt down in the Sp, a one time fluke thing but the evidence ie practice reports in the US and in Russia suggest differently. I dont think she isnt' trying. It seems kind of unfair but that is life that other top American skaters or hopefuls won't be at Nats. Gracie will be loved at Nats.

WE all think we know it all but Gracie has to do it.

I can suggest. Gracie find out who you and what you REALLY want. Recognize you are a worthy person with or without competitive skating.

If you want to skate work with a great psychologist/therapist.
It is hard to hold her up with pcs with skates like this. Not only is it a picture to the judges but the real picture is just tragic and m heart and I am sure others go out to her. A very "troubled" person,flailing for life, desperate and panicking.

It honestly was so painful to watch her self destruct publicly - as someone sort ofpointed out the Britney Spears analogy. To have it play out publicly is so painful. I suppose her coaches didn't know what to do but that was one awkward K & C.

I don't know Gracie but maybe she likes or liked the competitive atmosphere of kating and the lmielight of beign an Amerian princess I can imagine her be such a role model and coach for young people. They might not even know who she is but they would just love her as a coach and mentor. I don't want to be accused saying she should retire, I just think Gracie has more gifts.

Train hard but train smart.

Do not go to Nationals unless you are really ready. You have nothing to prove. I hope her desire to skate and when is not influened by money/sponsors or whatever.

I know fans will disagree but I think she is just moving too fast and not really allowi g herself to copletely heal physically and emotionally. Remember before she took a break these results, while not as bad, is what was happening. Even in her exhibitions her triples beame doubles. I agree her double lutz double toe was well done here but it won't cut it.

 

[hippomoomin]

I actually think it would have been ok for Gracie to have two very weak skates at Rostelecom since she's just back from years off, but she created larger expectations by having difficult planned jump layouts and saying its "on-brand" to comeback at a difficult competition; then she had simple jump content and then WD? Two complete contrasts.

It does not take an expert to see Gracie's thinking/action are conflicted:first she said she just wanted to skate not results, she she showed she cared very much about the results; We thought part of her mental illness is the lack of confidence, then "on-brand" showed otherwise. For a persons skated competitively for so many years, she does not know most skaters including herself typically do worse in competition than in practice? I don't even care about the spot should or should not go to someone else.

 

[qwerty]

Basic knowledge of psychology would suggest choice of words reflect a person's state of mind and personality. Hyperboles are typically used to impress, to emphasize or to be humorous. Word choice such as "small competition" "tiny competition" in Gracie's interview reflected her thinking. I remember Gracie was pretty realistic and rational in previous interviews. At Sochi she was 4th after the sp, and when reporters asked her something like how she would think her prospective to get on the podium, she said it was 4th but the score gap between hers and the 3rd was pretty big, and it is possible but unlikely for her to be on the podium.

Can you image if Karen or Ashley said the same thing how much backlash they would receive?

I clearly have too much time on my hands today! The hyperbole is referring to the word "never," not the size of the competition. As an alumna of such events as Pasadena club competition (2015) and Golden West (2016), Gracie has done her fair share of small competitions. And yes, they are small! Don't think it's offensive to state that.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I actually think it would have been ok for Gracie to have two very weak skates at Rostelecom since she's just back from years off, but she created larger expectations by having difficult planned jump layouts and saying its "on-brand" to comeback at a difficult competition; then she had simple jump content and then WD? Two complete contrasts.

Yeah, I agree with you. I have no problem with her coming back at a GP event instead of a smaller event (although I don't think it's ideal). I just thought several aspects of her skating would be better than they are, given she is skating in a premier competitive event. The hard jumps aren't ready. The easy jumps aren't ready. The spins aren't ready. There seemed to be no plan by her team to perform a program she can actually skate clean. I don't even know if I'd send her to a Senior B at this point in her comeback.

 

[el henry]

I clearly have too much time on my hands today! The hyperbole is referring to the word "never," not the size of the competition. As an alumna of such events as Pasadena club competition (2015) and Golden West (2016), Gracie has done her fair share of small competitions. And yes, they are small! Don't think it's offensive to state that.

I have too much time as well

I'm sorry, can we stop parsing Gracie's words in an interview like they were Holy Writ

*In context*, reading the entire interview, to me Gracie clearly meant, I am making this way too hard on myself, look at me, starting with the most difficult competition I could.

Further, I realize this is a figure skating board, and everyone, including me, offers their hot takes on woulda, coulda, shoulda, but as posters keep telling me in another context, this is a sport. And all the Monday morning quarterbacking in the world doesn't mean Gracie's decision at the time wasn’t based on Gracie's best information at the time. Monday morning quarterbacking is easy; real time decisions are hard.

 

[bennorii]

Just a question logistically, if Gracie's plan was to get a bye to Nationals through an international assignment, how was she sure that she was going to get assigned to a GP that fell on Sectionals week?

 

[el henry]

Just a question logistically, if Gracie's plan was to get a bye to Nationals through an international assignment, how was she sure that she was going to get assigned to a GP that fell on Sectionals week?

She wasn’t, which is why I find speculation or conclusions that she took this assignment solely for a bye, or primarily for a bye, to be problematic :think:

 

[Icey]

This kind of decision is the kind that frequently leads to relapses, especially with depression. I guess she and her coaches were in a state of shock (assuming they really believed she could do her planned layout), but there seemed to be little or no rapport between them. She's dealing with a lot other than her own personal issues. As of August, her dad still had not had his medical license reinstated. And even if he gets it back, who is going to hire him? That represents quite a financial reversal for the family.

 

[Sydney Rose]

I think when you're trying to make a comeback, especially from something like Gracie is, you need to start almost from scratch and build yourself back to the top. Like doing simple basics at exhibitions, then moving to smaller B/Challenger events and eventually building up to the top tier competitions. All while gradually increasing the elements and difficulty. It's all about the process.

It feels like team Gracie skipped A LOT of steps in the process, while keeping everything very close to the chest, by seemingly going directly to Rostelecom and that just makes everyone go crazy with more speculation. Obviously we don't know everything going on in Gracie's head but on the outside it doesn't look like the path currently being taken is all that beneficial for either a skating comeback or her personal health. We probably won't see her again till Nationals so we'll just have to wait and see again just like it was this past week.

Yes. I think Gracie needs to be doing a lot of what Jason Brown is doing in Toronto--going back to basics and rebuilding her technique. I read somewhere that Tracy Wilson has Jason working on his skating skills/body movement for three hours a day. I thought about that when I saw Gracie's PCS--three of the judges, including the US judge, gave her SS scores of 5.75. That had to be a shock for her and may be why she was so upset in the K&C. Jason could be an excellent role model for her if her goal really is to make the Olympic Team in 2022.

 

[Mrs. P]

Yes. I think Gracie needs to be doing a lot of what Jason Brown is doing in Toronto--going back to basics and rebuilding her technique. I read somewhere that Tracy Wilson has Jason working on his skating skills/body movement for three hours a day. I thought about that when I saw Gracie's PCS--three of the judges, including the US judge, gave her SS scores of 5.75. That had to be a shock for her and may be why she was so upset in the K&C. Jason could be an excellent role model for her if her goal really is to make the Olympic Team in 2022.

Not that this is going to happen, but it would be cool if Gracie went to TCC. She's not really going to rival Zhenya in her current condition and she gets the benefit of a pretty supportive community, including Jason.

But I do think Jason's approach is very sound and good model for Gracie -- although it's still a bit of apples and oranges since Jason wasn't starting completely from scratch with no intense training/skating for a good part of a year.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

She wasn’t, which is why I find speculation or conclusions that she took this assignment solely for a bye, or primarily for a bye, to be problematic :think:

I think that, when she accepted, she might have thought her skating would be closer to her peak form than it actually turned out to be. If a few weeks ago she could have withdrawn here and still qualified for Nationals, I believe that she would have. I am glad that she put herself out there for at least one skate because that will make her next one a little bit less intimidating.

 

[Mrs. P]

I think that, when she accepted, she might have thought her skating would be closer to her peak form than it actually turned out to be. If a few weeks ago she could have withdrawn here and still qualified for Nationals, I believe that she would have. I am glad that she put herself out there for at least one skate because that will make her next one a little bit less intimidating.

Yeah, I feel like that's the big silver lining of this. She doesn't have to experience that first and embarrassing skating again. She skating the way she did, she got the score she did and she is still on the other side of it.

I just thought of something random. I wonder if Ting Cui's unexpected coaching switch (Vincent Restencourt made reference to such in an instagram post) is related to Vincent taking Gracie on. I don't think Gracie is Vincent's only student, but it would have been a big ask to take Gracie and help her completely rebuild her career and cultivating a young and developing skater like Ting.

This is speculation...but I was just thinking the timing of all the events.

 

[chuckm]

Gracie knew her skating at CoR wasn't going to be anywhere near her peak form---I believe her estimate was 30-40% off of where she wanted to be. But what happened to her stepping onto competition ice was pure nerves, and that took its toll. She hadn't taken into consideration what it was going to feel like, after being away for such a long time, and facing not the most receptive audience.

Nationals will be an entirely different experience, and surely a more welcoming one.

 

[brightphoton]

there indeed was a deserving U.S. lady with only one GP spot who has won GP medals in two recent seasons & who has been skating decently this year: Courtney Hicks.

I guess "decently" is a good way to describe Courtney's skating ... 2 GPs would have been nice, but it doesn't make me want to rail against the injustice of 1 GP.

 

[lavoix]

I don't understand why you Americans are so nice to Gracie - can someone explain the rationale for competing? In such a big competition?

She was a super big mess - out of shape, couldn't jump, seriously I've never skated in my life and could probably do a better performance than that. Why on earth would her coaches allow for her to go on the ice in such a condition? If anything, she's probably gone backward again and hasn't done herself a favour.

 

[Mrs. P]

I don't understand why you Americans are so nice to Gracie - can someone explain the rationale for competing? In such a big competition?

She was a super big mess - out of shape, couldn't jump, seriously I've never skated in my life and could probably do a better performance than that. Why on earth would her coaches allow for her to go on the ice in such a condition? If anything, she's probably gone backward again and hasn't done herself a favour.

Gracie has received supportive statements from posters from different places here, so it's not limited to just Americans.

I think I can be nice and note that someone isn't in competition shape or talk about whether a different decision should have been made.

As to why Vincent & Co. let her go out there. I can thinking of a number of reasons. Ultimately while a coach can say "you shouldn't do this." But if the skater wants to give it a try, a coach can't prohibit it.

Based on her tweets, I think she realized that perhaps this wasn't the BEST decision, hence her decision to WD from the free skate. Again, it's really easy for us to sit here with unlimited time and thought to make the "best" decision. But ultimately Gracie had to decide and she experienced the consequences of that decision and now can learn from it.

 

[DenissVFan]

She was a super big mess - out of shape, couldn't jump, seriously I've never skated in my life and could probably do a better performance than that.

That is... a bold statement :noshake: