2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

[chuckm]

And Bradie has a bronze Olympic team medal, had the highest US ladies placement (9th) at the Olympics, and was 6th at 2018 Worlds. Mariah was 12th at Worlds.
In the overall ladies GP this season, Bradie ranked #10, Mariah #13.
Mariah and Bradie skate head-to-head next week at Golden Spin against Gubanova (skating this week at Tallinn), Guliakova (skated last week at Warsaw; won with 178.39) and Sotskova (Bradie just beat her at IDF).

 

[oatmella]

Is Ashley thinking of competing next season?!

https://twitter.com/ashwagner2010/status/1067480499709460482?s=21

 

[chuckm]

Sure she could come back and compete. The question is: can she be competitive under this new CoP that is so focused on complete jump rotation and cleanness of edging? PCS can't save the day any more.

 

[cohen-esque]

Sure she could come back and compete. The question is: can she be competitive under this new CoP that is so focused on complete jump rotation and cleanness of edging? PCS can't save the day any more.

Internationally, no. Against the US Ladies? She’d probably be more competitive than before.

 

[Mathman]

Is Ashley thinking of competing next season?!

https://twitter.com/ashwagner2010/status/1067480499709460482?s=21

I didn't get anything about Ashley's own plans from that tweet. But it is worth noting that she has a follower with the username "AbominableSnowflake.

 

[chuckm]

Internationally, no. Against the US Ladies? She’d probably be more competitive than before.

I don't see that at all. The US judges and tech team have to keep in mind how their ISU counterparts score, because that's what the US team is going to have to face at Worlds. A skater who can't rotate a 3/3, a 2a, and sometimes a 3lo, and who consistently gets ! on her lutz is going to get a lot of URs and edge calls. Ashley two-foots her jump landings, and her spins have never been top caliber; that means her GOE will suffer. She hasn't exactly been working on her skating for the past year, so none of those faults have been addressed. It's hard enough to begin training again after a long absence, and it's that much harder when a skater is 28 (which Ashley turns in May). She would have a tough time just getting basic skating skills back, let alone fixing the jump, edge and spin problems.

Ashley would have to demonstrate her competitiveness at international competitions, and that could be a rough awakening. It's a lot tougher out there now with so many high-scoring Russian, Japanese and Korean skaters.

 

[bobbob]

I don't see that at all. The US judges and tech team have to keep in mind how their ISU counterparts score, because that's what the US team is going to have to face at Worlds. A skater who can't rotate a 3/3, a 2a, and sometimes a 3lo, and who consistently gets ! on her lutz is going to get a lot of URs and edge calls. Ashley two-foots her jump landings, and her spins have never been top caliber; that means her GOE will suffer. She hasn't exactly been working on her skating for the past year, so none of those faults have been addressed. It's hard enough to begin training again after a long absence, and it's that much harder when a skater is 28 (which Ashley turns in May). She would have a tough time just getting basic skating skills back, let alone fixing the jump, edge and spin problems.

Ashley would have to demonstrate her competitiveness at international competitions, and that could be a rough awakening. It's a lot tougher out there now with so many high-scoring Russian, Japanese and Korean skaters.

Then what do you have to say to Gracie? I would venture to guess that Ashley is closer to competition form than Gracie is, not a very high bar.... (Are you saying Gracie's "rough awakening" is the reason why Ashley would not be competitive as well?)

In any case, I hope both of them return for enjoyment purposes and do not have their sights set on results, just like Carolina Kostner did.

 

[skatenewbie]

Internationally, no. Against the US Ladies? She’d probably be more competitive than before.

i dont think so. There is many upcoming ladies who has much better technical content. Ting Cui, Starr, also Bell and Bradie is quite solid. Ashley might get away in short with 3-2 combos. But she needs more difficulty in her FS. She will get 3Lze and < too

 

[Moxiejan]

It's hard enough to begin training again after a long absence, and it's that much harder when a skater is 28 (which Ashley turns in May). She would have a tough time just getting basic skating skills back, let alone fixing the jump, edge and spin problems.

Not even two weeks ago, Ashley was a featured performer in the Scott Hamilton fundraiser. Under show lights, she did a good triple jump & double axel, as well as excellent footwork. Why on earth would she have to work on getting “basic” skating skills back? She has never lost them.

 

[chuckm]

Then what do you have to say to Gracie? Ashley is much closer to competition form than Gracie is.... (Are you saying Gracie's "rude awakening" is the reason why Ashley should not return?)

In any case, I hope both of them return for enjoyment purposes and do not have their sights set on results, just like Carolina Kostner did.

I can't picture Ashley returning to competition, and willing to settle for 10th place at Nationals. That's not our Ashley.

Gracie is in a completely different position. She knows she is in a long-term struggle to get back to form and that it will take more than a year or even two to get there.

You can't compare either of them to Carolina Kostner, who had zero competitors in her own country and therefore could always expect to be the ladies representative for Italy at Worlds no matter how much time had elapsed since her last competition.

 

[chuckm]

Not even two weeks ago, Ashley was a featured performer in the Scott Hamilton fundraiser. Under show lights, she did a good triple jump & double axel, as well as excellent footwork. Why on earth would she have to work on getting “basic” skating skills back? She has never lost them.

That was an exhibition program, just two jumps and some fun footwork. Competition programs are in another league entirely. Her basic competition skating skills had been gradually deteriorating over the 2016-2017 and 2017-2018 seasons so much that she didn't win the Olympic slot she thought was automatically hers. And she hasn't been doing competition programs day in and day out the way she was when she was a competitive skater. The intricate skills needed to do competition programs need to be practiced regularly, or the muscle memory goes away and regaining it is an uphill chore.

 

[cohen-esque]

i dont think so. There is many upcoming ladies who has much better technical content. Ting Cui, Starr, also Bell and Bradie is quite solid. Ashley might get away in short with 3-2 combos. But she needs more difficulty in her FS. She will get 3Lze and < too

But we’ve seen that all of her competitors amongst the US Ladies now get “<“ and “!” calls, too, and that none of them earn the same PCS as Ashley did internationally. I really don’t think that internationally her results would be better than Bradie or Mariah, but neither of those two are extremely consistent, Mirai isn’t competing, Karen is a huge question mark at the current moment but she barely squeaked by Ashley last season and has historically been extremely inconsistent. Starr Andrews doesn’t have consistent 3Lz or 3F, and had solid but not-great GP outings that couldn’t match Ashley’s SC scores from last season or her CoC scores from 2016 where she had 7 URs. Amongst the juniors, Ting Cui barley ever lands her jumps, and Alyssa Lui is still too young to challenge for spots.

I mean I don’t know whether Ashley will come back, but if she did I can’t really see her having any more trouble securing spots on the international teams than the rest of the US senior ladies. It’s just a weak field.

 

[Moxiejan]

That was an exhibition program, just two jumps and some fun footwork. Competition programs are in another league entirely. Her basic competition skating skills had been gradually deteriorating over the 2016-2017 and 2017-2018 seasons so much that she didn't win the Olympic slot she thought was automatically hers. And she hasn't been doing competition programs day in and day out the way she was when she was a competitive skater. The intricate skills needed to do competition programs need to be practiced regularly, or the muscle memory goes away and regaining it is an uphill chore.

You didn’t say basic competition skating skills. Your exact words were “basic skating skills.” Big difference.

 

[oatmella]

Guess I got a bit excited about Ashley potentially coming back to competition .

Though I don’t see why Karen should be given way more benefit of the doubt than Ashley. Karen wasn’t much better if at all than Ashley last season. She has been injured for quite awhile, so I would assume she has lost practice time.

 

[chuckm]

But we’ve seen that all of her competitors amongst the US Ladies now get “<“ and “!” calls, too, and that none of them earn the same PCS as Ashley did internationally. I really don’t think that internationally her results would be better than Bradie or Mariah, but neither of those two are extremely consistent, Mirai isn’t competing, Karen is a huge question mark at the current moment but she barely squeaked by Ashley last season and has historically been extremely inconsistent. Starr Andrews doesn’t have consistent 3Lz or 3F, and had solid but not-great GP outings that couldn’t match Ashley’s SC scores from last season or her CoC scores from 2016 where she had 7 URs. Amongst the juniors, Ting Cui barley ever lands her jumps, and Alyssa Lui is still too young to challenge for spots.

I mean I don’t know whether Ashley will come back, but if she did I can’t really see her having any more trouble securing spots on the international teams than the rest of the US senior ladies. It’s just a weak field.

I can't see Ashley getting on the WORLD team. Her SB last season was 183.94, which put her 38th on the Seasons Best list. The CURRENT Seasons Best list has Bradie at #8 with 206.41 and Mariah at #15 with 198.96. Both Bradie and Mariah scored over 190 in both their GP events and Bradie won a bronze medal. No one who won a medal on the GP this year scored less than 190, and most medalwinners scored in the 200s.

 

[cohen-esque]

I can't see Ashley getting on the WORLD team. Her SB last season was 183.94, which put her 38th on the Seasons Best list. The CURRENT Seasons Best list has Bradie at #8 with 206.41 and Mariah at #15 with 198.96. Both Bradie and Mariah scored over 190 in both their GP events and Bradie won a bronze medal. No one who won a medal on the GP this year scored less than 190, and most medalwinners scored in the 200s.

Ashley’s SB was also her only complete international event last year and was also a bronze-medal score. I agree with you that I don’t think she could do it *this* season, but the hypothetical is a return next season. Say we got three spots back (a whole other question on its own, admittedly), then who’s really left besides those two? Mirai, assuming she also came back? Ashley would likely have to fight it out for the third spot, yeah, but last season was the only season in a long time where she’s ever scored less than 190, and her score was still higher than every international score that Karen posted last season, for example, and higher than Starr or Courtney Hicks or Megan Wessenberg have posted on the GP this season.

Also, given what happened to Ashley and Gracie both after 2016 Worlds, I’m not actually even confident that Bradie or Mariah would be at a very high level next year if they keep going and post fantastic results this season. I’m not willing to count Ashley out if she came back because the US Ladies field looks different every season.

 

[bobbob]

I can't picture Ashley returning to competition, and willing to settle for 10th place at Nationals. That's not our Ashley.

Gracie is in a completely different position. She knows she is in a long-term struggle to get back to form and that it will take more than a year or even two to get there.

You can't compare either of them to Carolina Kostner, who had zero competitors in her own country and therefore could always expect to be the ladies representative for Italy at Worlds no matter how much time had elapsed since her last competition.

Why is there a double standard for Gracie and Ashley? This seems to be more fo your opinion than anything. Both are skaters who unfortunately are past their prime most likely but have the choice to come back for their passion of skating? So Gracie is okay to stay even though she isn't competitive but Ashley isn't? All of your comments regarding Ashley apply to Gracie but much more extreme in Gracie's case. How do you know that Gracie is open to a long term struggle but Ashley isn't?

Of course the comparison to Carolina is far from perfect. But she is a good role model to go off of.

As for Nationals placements, if Ashley comes back I could see her getting like 5th or 6th or something, maybe better if she trains more. Bradie and Mariah would probably be ahead of her, as for some combination of Karen, Ting, and Alysa, maybe Starr and others...but remember Karen is coming back from injury too and her results last season weren't much better than Ashley's. Gracie, on the other hand, is not finishing in the top 10, I promise you.

 

[eaglehelang]

Why is there a double standard for Gracie and Ashley? This seems to be more fo your opinion than anything. Both are skaters who unfortunately are past their prime most likely but have the choice to come back for their passion of skating? So Gracie is okay to stay even though she isn't competitive but Ashley isn't? All of your comments regarding Ashley apply to Gracie but much more extreme in Gracie's case. How do you know that Gracie is open to a long term struggle but Ashley isn't?

Of course the comparison to Carolina is far from perfect. But she is a good role model to go off of.

As for Nationals placements, if Ashley comes back I could see her getting like 5th or 6th or something, maybe better if she trains more. Bradie and Mariah would probably be ahead of her, as for some combination of Karen, Ting, and Alysa, maybe Starr and others...but remember Karen is coming back from injury too and her results last season weren't much better than Ashley's. Gracie, on the other hand, is not finishing in the top 10, I promise you.

Because Ashley Wagner is already 27 and Gracie Gold is 23? Age wise Gracie has more time to get it together.
Ashley if she chooses to come back can go on another 1 or 2 years perhaps.
Sure, the men like Brezina at 28, Sergei Voronov at 31 and Takahashi making a comeback at 32. These men can jump quads.

For the women, other than Carolina Kostner, how many can make a comeback at age above 25? More so next season with the young quad jumpers moving to seniors. + with more 3A jumpers appearing. ++ more and more senior ladies will want to up their tech with quads. Zagitova is learning a quad, Rika is learning 4S and so on. Soon we'll be hearing the women need a 3A to be top 5, top 8 at WC.
Sthing like what happened to the men's 2014 to 2018 . Would Ashley want to get back into the heat of things after considering this?

 

[frida80]

Ashley is probably just commenting excitements over it being in Greensboro, the place where she won her third title. I didn't see anything in that tweet to make me think she's returning.

 

[macy]

I don't see that at all. The US judges and tech team have to keep in mind how their ISU counterparts score, because that's what the US team is going to have to face at Worlds. A skater who can't rotate a 3/3, a 2a, and sometimes a 3lo, and who consistently gets ! on her lutz is going to get a lot of URs and edge calls. Ashley two-foots her jump landings, and her spins have never been top caliber; that means her GOE will suffer. She hasn't exactly been working on her skating for the past year, so none of those faults have been addressed. It's hard enough to begin training again after a long absence, and it's that much harder when a skater is 28 (which Ashley turns in May). She would have a tough time just getting basic skating skills back, let alone fixing the jump, edge and spin problems.

Ashley would have to demonstrate her competitiveness at international competitions, and that could be a rough awakening. It's a lot tougher out there now with so many high-scoring Russian, Japanese and Korean skaters.

i don't really think she would put too much focus onto whether or not she would be competitive if she made a comeback. she's accomplished pretty much every goal she's had in skating, and if she returned i think it would be just for the pure love and joy of skating. not to necessarily do super well internationally or compete for top spots. i would be beyond happy if she came back regardless.