2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

[Shani]

The issues with US skaters at Four Continents are probably caused by US Figureskating putting Nationals so late in the international calendar of events and so close to the start of Four Continents the athletes don't have enough time to recoup and prepare.

 

[Nathan13]

The issues with US skaters at Four Continents are probably caused by US Figureskating putting Nationals so late in the international calendar of events and so close to the start of Four Continents the athletes don't have enough time to recoup and prepare.

I can't figure out why Nationals wasn't held the week before...It's usually the same weekend as Canadian Nationals.

 

[Jammers]

I believe 4CC was due to nerves, but mostly to fatigue. Ting went through Nationals, Junior Camp, last minute training, and decided to fly over to California for 4CC. Let’s hope and pray for two clean programs during Worlds along with Hanna.

Tomoki had the same schedule as Ting and skated two almost clean programs so that excuse doesn't work. it was mostly nerves and not fighting when her jumps aren't there.

 

[ice coverage]

Tomoki had the same schedule as Ting and skated two almost clean programs so that excuse doesn't work. it was mostly nerves and not fighting when her jumps aren't there.

Ting's Four Continents schedule was worse than Tomoki's.

She had SP on Thu, and FS on Fri. Consecutive days.
He had SP on Thu, and FS on Sat. Given the compressed timeframe since Nats, a non-competition day in between is worth noting.

I do not think anyone is saying that the three-week whirlwind schedule was the only reason for Ting's difficulties at Four Continents. But I think it is fair to say that the schedule did not help.
People are individuals, and Tomoki -- who is older than Ting and has had quite a bit more competition experience -- was able to do well in Anaheim. At other times, he has had his own issues with consistency. As a fan of his, I am really glad that Four Continents was a great event for him.

Meanwhile, some skaters with far more experience that sixteen-year-old Ting have persistent struggles with consistency and nerves. Yes, I hope that she can improve in those areas. But I just do not understand the inclination of some to treat her as some kind of unforgivable and extraordinary failure.

I believe 4CC was due to nerves, but mostly to fatigue. Ting went through Nationals, Junior Camp, last minute training, and decided to fly over to California for 4CC. Let’s hope and pray for two clean programs during Worlds along with Hanna.

Very peculiar wording here: "... and decided to fly over to California for 4CC."

I don't know what it is supposed to mean, but obviously Ting did not receive the USFS assignment for Four Continents until the end of Nats.
It is not as if Ting, on a whim, made a last-minute decision to add Four Continents to her schedule. The decision was never even hers to make.

---

I'm exhausted from traveling back and forth to and from Detroit, being at the arena 12 hours a day, then watching all of 4cc's live I can't imagine what it must be like for the athletes.

And I will add that even as experienced a competitor/traveler as Jason Brown (with as experienced a team/family as his) somehow forgot to bring his costumes home from Golden Spin.
What I find even more interesting is that it was not until six weeks later that Jason, when packing for Nats, realized he had left them behind.
(I am so glad that he got them back in time -- just barely.)

Just goes to show that there is a tremendous amount to juggle physically and mentally as skaters compete and train.

---

To my friend frida: Thank you for your long post. I owe you a reply.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I do not think anyone is saying that the three-week whirlwind schedule was the only reason for Ting's difficulties at Four Continents. But I think it is fair to say that the schedule did not help.
People are individuals, and Tomoki -- who is older than Ting and has had quite a bit more competition experience -- was able to do well in Anaheim. At other times, he has had his own issues with consistency. As a fan of his, I am really glad that Four Continents was a great event for him.

I would add that there are biological differences between men and women, in regards to strength and recovery, such that it makes comparing their schedules impossible.

 

[b-man]

Meanwhile, some skaters with far more experience that sixteen-year-old Ting have persistent struggles with consistency and nerves. Yes, I hope that she can improve in those areas. But I just do not understand the inclination of some to treat her as some kind of unforgivable and extraordinary failure.

No one is treating Ting as an unforgivable and extraordinary failure. That one particular performance was a failure, and that one performance alone. This is a skating forum, the great performances are noted and discussed repeatedly. I certainly discussed Ting's superb FS at National's, and that performance was a highlight of Nationals to me and cemented me as a fan of Ting's.

Likewise, those with a lot of talent accrue a lot of expectations, and subpar performances are analyzed as well. Anna Pogo's performance at 2017 Worlds was discussed here ad nauseum. The undefeated Zagitova's 3 fall meltdown at last years worlds was discussed extensively. Few consider Zagitova an unforgivable extraordinary failure. Her fans moved on and most still support her. Ting's multiple fall, 40 point drop in the FS in a 2 week period is also discussed. Her talent has not disappeared. I remain her fan, and will move on.

 

[labgoat]

No one is treating Ting as an unforgivable and extraordinary failure. That one particular performance was a failure, and that one performance alone. This is a skating forum, the great performances are noted and discussed repeatedly. I certainly discussed Ting's superb FS at National's, and that performance was a highlight of Nationals to me and cemented me as a fan of Ting's.

Likewise, those with a lot of talent accrue a lot of expectations, and subpar performances are analyzed as well. Anna Pogo's performance at 2017 Worlds was discussed here ad nauseum. The undefeated Zagitova's 3 fall meltdown at last years worlds was discussed extensively. Few consider Zagitova an unforgivable extraordinary failure. Her fans moved on and most still support her. Ting's multiple fall, 40 point drop in the FS in a 2 week period is also discussed. Her talent has not disappeared. I remain her fan, and will move on.

I will continue to root for Ting as well. She is a beautiful and talented newcomer who is learning how to compete two solid programs on a very large stage. Either way I look forward to enjoying her future events.

 

[brightphoton]

After last year's Nationals, I suppose we were all ready to crown "I never fall" Bradie the savior of American skating. Personally, I think she gets underrotation calls more often than she should and the judges are robbing her of points, but nonetheless she hasn't turned out to be the next big consistent never-falling winner. You have to wonder if it's even a realistic expectation. Skaters are human. It is a deja vu feeling, similar to situations after Gracie Gold, Mirai Nagasu, Caroline Zhang, Kimmie Meissner.

I don't expect medals anymore, or even achieving 3 spots for World's. With that expectation lifted, it's enjoyable as a fan to watch our skaters as they are.

That statement has a caveat though. I notice that our skaters showed disappointment after their skates, that unlike me, they are definitely not satisfied with 5th-10th place. So, who knows how the situation will change in the future.

 

[Skater Boy]

Mariah was scoring higher PCS than Bradie, but it seems the judges just dropped her after she kept having mistakes.

If Bradie can somehow land on the podium (4CC showed that she just needs to fix up her free as her short is scored well), then Mariah only needs to be within top 10 -- very doable. The US really needs Bradie's free program.

Not impossible considering the Russian turmoil but difficult. Kostner may be returning and three Japanese contenders plus there are skaters like lil bet, Lim all could challenge - and if a miracle happens and Daleman from Canada recovers it maybe more difficult. But both Bradie and Mariah could be top 5 under the right circumstances.

 

[concorde]

But both Bradie and Mariah could be top 5 under the right circumstances.

I can see Bradie in the top 5 if she is clean in both programs, maybe even with a bauble.
No to Mariah. The issue is her not having 3-3 in the FS.

 

[natsulian]

Since Junior Worlds is less than three weeks away, here are our two ladies representing the US at the championship:

Ting Cui's 2018/2019 Season:
Total Score - 199.79 (ISU CS Tallinn Trophy 2018)
Short Program - 70.20 (ISU JGP Czech Skate 2018)
Long Program - 132.23 (ISU CS Tallinn Trophy 2018)
Four international assignments - 2 JGP's, one 4CC, and one CS
Notes: changed coaches last year, trains Quads

Hanna Harrell's 2018/2019 Season:
Total Score - 157.08 (ISU JGP Armenian Cup 2018)
Short Program - 52.28 (ISU JGP Armenian Cup 2018)
Long Program - 104.80 (ISU JGP Armenian Cup 2018)
Two international assignments - 1 JGP and Egna Spring Trophy 2018 Egna
Notes: injured during her only ISU JGP Armenian Cup 2018 assignment, trains a 3A and Quads

Best of luck to both rising stars.

 

[champs]

Hanna Harrell's 2018/2019 Season:
Two international assignments - 1 JGP and Egna Spring Trophy 2018 Egna

Egna Spring Trophy 2018 was from last season.

Notes: injured during her only ISU JGP Armenian Cup 2018 assignment, trains a 3A and Quads

I guess I missed that. Do we have articles or videos about Hanna training 3A/quads?

Best of luck to both rising stars.

Ditto!

But before that I'm hoping Amber to skate two clean programs at the Challenge Cup

 

[Canadianskatingfan]

Egna Spring Trophy 2018 was from last season.


I guess I missed that. Do we have articles or videos about Hanna training 3A/quads?


Ditto!

But before that I'm hoping Amber to skate two clean programs at the Challenge Cup

Hanna has mentioned training 4F on her instagram before and I believe she tried some 3A at the Aerial Challenge in early summer.

 

[labgoat]

Just rewatching Bradie and think she loses points for her excessive bent over posture, more so in the long. She also seems to not have a lot of flow in her connecting steps. It is all very staccato and does not show off much glide. I find it annoying because I am certain she can stand up straight and glide. If it is a choreographic choice, it is a poor one as it is makes her skating look jerky and juniorish. I like the avant-garde style for her, but I need some flow. I want to see her feel the music course through her veins and draw out the extension. She still looks like she in connecting the dots and not letting each element fall into the next, no matter what the music selection.

 

[theharleyquinn]

Just rewatching Bradie and think she loses points for her excessive bent over posture, more so in the long. She also seems to not have a lot of flow in her connecting steps. It is all very staccato and does not show off much glide. I find it annoying because I am certain she can stand up straight and glide. If it is a choreographic choice, it is a poor one as it is makes her skating look jerky and juniorish. I like the avant-garde style for her, but I need some flow. I want to see her feel the music course through her veins and draw out the extension. She still looks like she in connecting the dots and not letting each element fall into the next, no matter what the music selection.

I'm not sold that Benoit is the best choreographer for her. When you have someone who already skates stiff and sometimes hunched, angular choreography seems to only emphasize those qualities. Benoit works for Kaori because she softens out the lines he's creating, which gives her skating a nice contrast in her FS especially. I can see that Bradie's more comfortable with avant-garde, but maybe she should be with someone like a Shae-Lynn that may have a better shot at fixing a lot of the problems you're referencing.

 

[Jammers]

After last year's Nationals, I suppose we were all ready to crown "I never fall" Bradie the savior of American skating. Personally, I think she gets underrotation calls more often than she should and the judges are robbing her of points, but nonetheless she hasn't turned out to be the next big consistent never-falling winner. You have to wonder if it's even a realistic expectation. Skaters are human. It is a deja vu feeling, similar to situations after Gracie Gold, Mirai Nagasu, Caroline Zhang, Kimmie Meissner.

I don't expect medals anymore, or even achieving 3 spots for World's. With that expectation lifted, it's enjoyable as a fan to watch our skaters as they are.

That statement has a caveat though. I notice that our skaters showed disappointment after their skates, that unlike me, they are definitely not satisfied with 5th-10th place. So, who knows how the situation will change in the future.

I don't think people were hailing Bradie as the new savior of US Ladies skating last season it was more like she was about the only US lady who was doing well heading into Nationals who seemed to want to make the Olympic team while everyone else was treading water. I don't think people ever thought she was hugely talented like a Gracie who was good enough in her prime to win most every competition she entered.

 

[NanaPat]

I don't think people were hailing Bradie as the new savior of US Ladies skating last season it was more like she was about the only US lady who was doing well heading into Nationals who seemed to want to make the Olympic team while everyone else was treading water. I don't think people ever thought she was hugely talented like a Gracie who was good enough in her prime to win most every competition she entered.

I remember it differently.

'After last year's Nationals, I suppose we were all ready to crown "I never fall" Bradie the savior of American skating. ' sums it up nicely for me, thought I think the enthusiasm actually started after Skate America.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I remember it differently.

'After last year's Nationals, I suppose we were all ready to crown "I never fall" Bradie the savior of American skating. ' sums it up nicely for me, thought I think the enthusiasm actually started after Skate America.

To be fair, she has clearly been the best senior woman the last two seasons. I believe that the decline in her consistency is the result of her pushing herself to improve so many different aspects of her skating. To the extent that there will be a savior of American women's skating in the next couple of years, it will be Bradie.

 

[tothepointe]

To be fair, she has clearly been the best senior woman the last two seasons. I believe that the decline in her consistency is the result of her pushing herself to improve so many different aspects of her skating. To the extent that there will be a savior of American women's skating in the next couple of years, it will be Bradie.

This is all very true. She is only making mistakes because she is trying new elements and different style choices.

I feel like the team realizes that getting on the podium is what counts so you have to take risks like the 3Lz-3Loop because without it your just going to end up off the podium anyways. Is it better to lose with a fall or to lose by not having the content be difficult enough?

For a true competitor I think it's hard to sell the strategy of just trying to skate clean doing a simpler routine in the hopes that others might falter. That's not taking your destiny into your own hands.

For me however that's EXACTLY what I would do but probably also the reason I'm not an elite anything.

 

[sheetz]

To me any "savior" to US ladies would require someone with a Kwan-like competitive record. Most people thought Bradie would be the best senior US lady, and she has been when Alysa is excluded. But I don't think anyone ever thought Bradie was going to seriously challenge for gold at Worlds.