2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

[bubblecherry]

Any word on Karen Chen? If she competes in summer competitions and does well, couldn’t she get the Skate America host spot?

She's competing next season as of right now. She already has her programs. She'll probably get 1 GP regardless, no? There just aren't enough strong US ladies.

 

[sheetz]

Karen recent gave an interview on Chinese American TV and it was translated by this blog
https://fyeahkarenchen.tumblr.com/post/185275462978/us-figure-skater-karen-chen-talks-about-her

She'll probably get 1 GP regardless, no? There just aren't enough strong US ladies.

Senior GP assignments are generally given out based on World Standings and last season's list of best scores so Karen may not qualify for one.

 

[Happy Skates]

Karen recent gave an interview on Chinese American TV and it was translated by this blog
https://fyeahkarenchen.tumblr.com/post/185275462978/us-figure-skater-karen-chen-talks-about-her



Senior GP assignments are generally given out based on World Standings and last season's list of best scores so Karen may not qualify for one.

They are also given based on the top 24 World Standings list, and if I recall correctly, Karen is still on that list meaning she qualifies for at least one.

 

[SnowWhite]

They are also given based on the top 24 World Standings list, and if I recall correctly, Karen is still on that list meaning she qualifies for at least one.

No, she is not. Karen is currently 59th in World Standing, because the 2016-17 points have been dropped and she got no points this past season, so she only has her Olympic season points, which count at 70% now.

The only way Karen can qualify for the GP (other than a potential SA host spot) is through the Comeback Skater rule, but since that requires the skater to have not participated in the previous season and she did compete in the SP at Tallinn, it's unclear whether she qualifies. Exact wording:

Skaters/Couples who were previously seeded (placed 1 to 6 within the past 10 years at a ISU World Figure Skating Championships) and subsequently did not participate in one or more competitive seasons will be given priority consideration to re-enter the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating for selection of up to 2 assignments if they commit in writing to participating in two ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating events and if such return is announced and confirmed by the date of the annual Selection Meeting.

 

[Ice Dance]

They are also given based on the top 24 World Standings list, and if I recall correctly, Karen is still on that list meaning she qualifies for at least one.

No, she's 59th on the World Standings list now.

Karen's chances for an invite are a gray area, & I don't think we know what they technically are at this point. Her best hope for a guaranteed spot (actually two) is to qualify as a Comeback Skater. She has the top 6 from a previous Worlds finish for it, and if they do not count her Did-Not-Finish event at Tallinn Trophy as a competition from last season, then she qualifies for berths on the GP that way. If they count Tallinn as an event from last season, then she doesn't meet that criteria (or the Return Skater criteria). I am curious whether her team dotted their i's and crossed their t's and looked into this before signing her up for Tallinn last year. As far as we can tell, they knew beforehand that she didn't have an LP ready yet and was only going to skate the SP.

Anyway if she doesn't qualify as a Comeback Skater, then it's entirely possible she might not get a GP. (Kevin Reynolds didn't after the year he was injured & only did one event). But I'm not sure she wouldn't be selected anyway. There are guidelines regarding the athletes that aren't guaranteed spots, but they are generally treated as guidelines rather than firm rules. There are a lot of aspects of Karen & her career that could make her an appealing invite.

ETA: Snow White beat me to posting. I'll go ahead and leave this post up here since it does have a few different thoughts in it.

 

[ice coverage]

General comment: I don't think a Come-Back Skater is guaranteed two spots.

As a Come-Back Skater for the 2018/19 GP series, Gracie received only one assignment.

---

As the season unfolds, winners of Challengers get added to the GP alternate list.

Potentially could be helpful to a number of U.S. ladies, not limited to Karen.

 

[bubblecherry]

What are you guys most looking forward to next season and why?

For me it's

1. Alysa's junior debut! I never thought I'd be looking forward to a skater so young, but she really won me over at Nats! She's clearly a very hardworking girl, insanely gifted, and her coach seems to be pushing her into the right direction. As a 12 year old, I think she's been on par with other great 12 year olds artistically, but next season, there will be a few girls who are as young as her with even better artistic skills, and I'm excited to see how she fares against them. I think + hope that she (and the team around her) will really push her artistically, and I'm excited about her potential.

2. Hanna Harrell. Once again, never thought such a young skater would win me over so quickly but she really did at Nats. I think of all of the top US ladies (juniors + seniors) I think Hanna has my favorite jumps. It'd be great to see her up her techincal content, I think she can do it, but I'm especially excited to see her Misha Ge programs!!! I think that's a really interesting combination, and Misha is the perfect person to add some spunk to her skating. Her last two competitions were quite good, so here's to hoping she can expand on that momentum and build up her consistency. I would be happy to see her on the JGP, no need to rush to seniors so soon, her and Alysa would be an amazing Junior team. I'm really rooting for them.

3. Ting! It's strange that Ting's programs really were not my cup of tea this past season (I found them both to be quite bland) yet I was so charmed by Ting every. single. time. I think I could enjoy Ting skating to anything, but of course, I hope she gets great programs. Her upper body flexibility + her attention to detail in her lines + her light, airy skating skills + just her overral carriage! She's so unique to me, yet such a classic talent. I really hope she can gain some consistency, skate more with her knees, and up her technical elements if she wants!

4. Karen's comeback. I still think she's the best "full package" of all of the current crop of US ladies. Beautiful jumps, spins, skating skills, and her own personality and artistry on ice. I'm not going to expect much in terms of success, but if she could put down a few decent programs, it'd be a highlight of the season for me. Any success would just be a cherry on top.

5. Bradie & Mariah's programs. They both improved a lot this season and had good, unique programs for them, hoping they can expand on that next season as well. I also think both of them have 3A potential and I would love to see/hear about them working on that.

6. Excited for any suprised to come! Would love to see some unexpected ladies go up the ranks, maybe some I'm barely even aware of

 

[Ice Dance]

General comment: I don't think a Come-Back Skater is guaranteed two spots.

As a Come-Back Skater for the 2018/19 GP series, Gracie received only one assignment.

Gotcha. So it would be accurate to say guaranteed one and considered for a second, correct?

 

[ice coverage]

Gotcha. So it would be accurate to say guaranteed one and considered for a second, correct?

The ISU language is "priority consideration" for Come-Back Skaters, so to be honest, I don't feel sure whether even one spot is guaranteed?

From the 2018/19 Announcement:

“Come-Back” Skaters/Couples: Skaters/Couples who were previously seeded (placed 1 to 6 within the past 10 years at a ISU World Figure Skating Championships) and subsequently did not participate in one or more competitive seasons will be given priority consideration to re-enter the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating for selection of up to 2 assignments if they commit in writing to participating in two ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating events and if such return is announced and confirmed by the date of the annual Selection Meeting. Such so called “Come Back Skaters/Couples” will not substitute any of the Seeded Skaters/Couples, mentioned under a). “Come Back Skaters/Couples” must not fulfil the requirements of the minimum Grand Prix score and would be considered for selection as an Organizing ISU Member Choice. A come back under this clause is allowed only once in their competitive career for any Skater/Couple.​

Hypothetical example:

The Zaretskys placed sixth at 2010 Worlds.
If/if/if they wanted to come back, would they be guaranteed one spot?
Or would the wording of "priority consideration" leave the door open to not selecting them even for one spot???​

I don't know whether it was at the discretion of the host federations whether or not to give Gracie even just the one spot??

 

[Ice Dance]

The Zaretskys placed sixth at 2010 Worlds.
If/if/if they wanted to come back, would they be guaranteed one spot?
Or would the wording of "priority consideration" leave the door open to not selecting them even for one spot???​

Sure. A guaranteed couple points for the host team at Rostelecom. And a few political points with the Israeli dance judge. Win/win.

 

[natsulian]

Things I’m most looking forward to next season:

1. Alysa Liu - Alysa’s Junior Grand Prix debut is probably on an innumerable amount of people’s most anticipated lists and I’m no different. Alysa has great artistic capabilities and I truly cannot wait to see what Lori did with her. Additionally, Alysa’s bubbly and magnetic personality will surely win over many crowds and increase her already exponential fan base. Alysa has a knack for surprising people and I cannot wait to see where she is technically and artistically in a few months.

2. Hanna Harrell - Hanna has been one of my favorite upcoming talents for a very long time and I was beyond elated to see her flourish at Nationals and Junior Worlds. With Misha Ge working with Hanna and her strive to always increase her technical components, I cannot wait to see what she brings to the table. Hanna’s jumps are sky high and impressive early in the program, but she struggles with stamina so I really want to see how much she’s improved after this off season. Also, I’m remaining hopeful about a possible quad and triple axel.

3. Bradie Tennell - Bradie did not have the season she wanted, but managed to end the season on a high note. I want to see Bradie continue to strive for artistic improvements and to see her jump higher, farther, and really improve on those rotations. I cannot wait to see her programs alongside a clean 3Lz-3Lo.

4. Ting Cui - Ting is an insanely talented young lady who has all the goods to be the #1 US lady. However, due to her inconsistency, Ting can never quite put together two amazing programs that catapult her to the stratosphere. With a 4T and consistent programs throughout the season, Ting can be a major player. However, if she enables her focus to waver for even a second, the other hungry girls will take her moment away. I cannot wait to see how much she’s improved and hope that her injury has healed.

5. Mariah Bell - Bell is an artistic gift to all of us and I cannot wait to see her Free Program. As for her Short, despite my dislike of the song, I’m excited to see what she has to offer. Plus, it’s always rewarding to venture outside of one’s comfort zone and broaden one’s artistic arsenal.

6. Upcoming Juniors - Since we finally have maximum Junior Grand Prix slots, I cannot wait to see some new talents blossom and take center stage. Although I was rooting for Calista, I think that separating her time between pairs and singles will not be as rewarding as others seem to think. However, I still think she will do decently. I hope to see other prospering talents like Mia and Isabeau take Nationals by storm.

7. Dark horses - It’s always fun to have people who perform shockingly well or better than expected and I hope that’s the case for a lot of our girls. Nationals will not be as exciting since Novice and Intermediate is no longer there (I loved watching the upcoming talents grow right before my eyes), but I hope we can get some surprises along the way.

 

[SnowWhite]

General comment: I don't think a Come-Back Skater is guaranteed two spots.

As a Come-Back Skater for the 2018/19 GP series, Gracie received only one assignment.

---

As the season unfolds, winners of Challengers get added to the GP alternate list.

Potentially could be helpful to a number of U.S. ladies, not limited to Karen.

They get added to the bottom of the list though, and the alternate list in ladies is typically very long. So if they go by the rules, it shouldn't really have any impact.

The alternate list needs to be worked through in ranking order for the top 75 ranked Skaters/Couples according to their Season’s Best. All Skaters/Couples of the alternate list will be grouped in top ranked groups of ten (10) Skaters, out of which the respective Organizing ISU Member may pick one Skater/Couple for invitation.

Skaters/Couples, who place first in any of the ISU Challenger Series events for 2017/18 and can prove to have skated the minimum total score or the minimum Technical score as mentioned in paragraph 2.3, as well as Skaters/Couples, who can prove to have skated the minimum Technical score will be added to the alternate list, bottom ranked according to their scores.

 

[ice coverage]

IIRC, it has not been uncommon in actuality for a host federation to fill a vacant spot with a skater who is not at the top of the alternate list.

(And then a discussion and/or outcry on GS invariably ensues. )

 

[Ice Dance]

They get added to the bottom of the list though, and the alternate list in ladies is typically very long. So if they go by the rules, it shouldn't really have any impact.

There is no technical order to the alternate list. You just get added to the list of ten. Coomes & Buckland were most likely placed on the replacement list due to winning a Challenger during the Olympic season. And they were promptly selected for the next opening available. C&B also had the highest score so I basically considered them at the "top" of the list after they won Nebelhorn anyway; but in reality there is no top or bottom. If there were, though, it would be accurate to say that athletes are quite often selected from the lower portion of the list, including "last."

 

[SnowWhite]

There is no technical order to the alternate list. You just get added to the list of ten. Coomes & Buckland were most likely placed on the replacement list due to winning a Challenger during the Olympic season. And they were promptly selected for the next opening available. C&B also had the highest score so I basically considered them at the "top" of the list after they won Nebelhorn anyway; but in reality there is no top or bottom. If there were, though, it would be accurate to say that athletes are quite often selected from the lower portion of the list, including "last."

That's not what I meant.

The alternate list needs to be worked through in ranking order for the top 75 ranked Skaters/Couples according to their Season’s Best. All Skaters/Couples of the alternate list will be grouped in top ranked groups of ten (10) Skaters, out of which the respective Organizing ISU Member may pick one Skater/Couple for invitation.

Skaters/Couples, who place first in any of the ISU Challenger Series events for 2017/18 and can prove to have skated the minimum total score or the minimum Technical score as mentioned in paragraph 2.3, as well as Skaters/Couples, who can prove to have skated the minimum Technical score will be added to the alternate list, bottom ranked according to their scores.

So the alternate list is not just ten skaters, as I understand. It's groups of ten, with the hosts picking anyone from the top group. How I read this is that skaters winning the CS events would go to the very bottom of the list, not the bottom of the first group of ten.

 

[Ice Dance]

OK, I see what you are saying. Well if the alternate list, in this case, is defined as the top 75 then Coomes & Buckland did not go to the bottom of the top 75 list in 17/18. They received an invite after winning Nebelhorn--from Japan, which as far as I can recall, generally follows the rules and selects more dance teams from the very top than any other host--and there were teams in the top 30 that didn't get invited onto the GP so I'm sure the top ten alternate group was nowhere near as far down as 75th. However, Coomes & Buckland are a highly questionable example because if they were actually submitted as Return Skaters by the British Fed that year by the deadline, then they would already have had a high enough score from the 2016 Worlds to be selected during the initial draw. The fact that they were not selected at all during that initial draw despite having a 2016 score that would have been top 20 on the list implies that they weren't included on the initial selection list and ultimately earned their replacement invite via their Challenger win. But we don't know. They are the only dancers over the past couple seasons that have won a Challenger without already having a GP spot. I don't follow the singles disciplines closely enough to know who, if anyone, has made the GP via a Challenger win since 2017-18. Perhaps we will have to keep watching to see?

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Has Mariah Bell mentioned anything about training a triple axel ? She used to train them a bit on the harness. A few years ago, I think there was even video of her practicing it. I’m curious because if she isn’t, is she at least planning to up her technical content?

 

[macy]

Has Mariah Bell mentioned anything about training a triple axel ? She used to train them a bit on the harness. A few years ago, I think there was even video of her practicing it. I’m curious because if she isn’t, is she at least planning to up her technical content?

I sure hope she's drilling 3+3's this summer. she can't go another season without them in either program, and she really needs 2 in the long. i think it would be smart to get her combos consistent first and make that her focus rather than 3A's and risking injury.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

I sure hope she's drilling 3+3's this summer. she can't go another season without them in either program, and she really needs 2 in the long. i think it would be smart to get her combos consistent first and make that her focus rather than 3A's and risking injury.

Perhaps you’re right. Mariah needs a great 3-3 before a 3A.

But maybe it’s just hard for her to pop off a second triple right after another; maybe doing a 3A is the right way to go?

 

[macy]

Perhaps you’re right. Mariah needs a great 3-3 before a 3A.

But maybe it’s just hard for her to pop off a second triple right after another; maybe doing a 3A is the right way to go?

I don't think just jumping a 3A alongside 3+2 combos will be enough. i very highly doubt she would put 2 in a long, and it would be too risky in the short. without it in the short she's going to score the same as this season.

i could be wrong because i'm too lazy to do math, but having 2 well executed 3+3's will be a bigger point getter than a 3A...and let's be honest, i wouldn't bet on a consistent, well done 3A if she ever does one. we saw mirai's success rate with it and how much trouble she usually had with it.

i think we are more likely to see her go for more triple triples next season and work on a 3A when she can.