2018-2019 Season - New rules

[Alchamei]

These proposed BV are absolutely ridiculous. Lowering the quad throws even more and making some confused values, like why the need to adjust the Lutz and Axel values like that? It made it also easier to remember and triple Axel is still hard. I bet in next years we will be in Lysacek situation again.

 

[Shayuki]

What's the required SP jump for juniors?

Last season it was Loop... This season it was Lutz...

I just hope it's a Flip next season That would be the best for Anna.

 

[Alchamei]

Also, the article itself annoys me: 'Lowering the quads BV might have significant impact on skaters like Boyang Jin' Like COME ON? Boyang might have been a jumping mashine in his early years but everyone makes him to be the most unartistic skater ever while there are skaters like Samarin who have nothing in between and mainly Nathan is, compared to Boyang, a total jumping mashine right now yet everyone ignores his issues.

 

[cheerknithanson]

I'm actually quite nervous on what will be changing.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Last season it was Loop... This season it was Lutz...

I just hope it's a Flip next season That would be the best for Anna.

Just looked and per USFSA it IS the flip!!!

 

[frida80]

What's the required SP jump for juniors?

Flip.

 

[AshWagsFan]

With the +5 -5 goe, are the current world records going to remain standing right with the new system will both records be accepted?

 

[TryMeLater]

Actually I think that proposal may be outdated because I remember hearing more recently that quads (and 3A?) BV will be lowering by around 10%, whereas this table lowers BV of all jumps and in different percentages for each jump (which I always disagreed with; if you're lowering a certain percentage of BV, make it uniform across all the jumps). Though this more recent info wasn't official, so who knows what they'll decide?

I haven't done the math personally (haven't had the time), but I think that BV change is mandotary because of the new GOE factoring.
Remember, right now the GOE values for each element are arbitrary - like a +3 on Stsq 4 is 2.10 (why? - the same is for jumps, of course)
If you're going to add half(!) of the jump BV as +5 GOE than you have to adjust the BV, otherwise you'll end with big discrepancies.

 

[xeyra]

I haven't done the math personally (haven't had the time), but I think that BV change is mandotary because of the new GOE factoring.
Remember, right now the GOE values for each element are arbitrary - like a +3 on Stsq 4 is 2.10 (why? - the same is for jumps, of course)
If you're going to add half(!) of the jump BV as +5 GOE than you have to adjust the BV, otherwise you'll end with big discrepancies.

Yes, they're going to go ahead with a BV change for sure. I just don't think the initial BV reduction proposal posted by icenetwork, which just arbitrarily lowered BV of different jumps in different percentual amounts (4Lz drop was around 15%, 4F around 10%), will probably be the final one. A more uniform BV change, equal to all jumps (or quads) seems much fairer.

 

[Shayuki]

Yes, they're going to go ahead with a BV change for sure. I just don't think the initial BV reduction proposal posted by icenetwork, which just arbitrarily lowered BV of different jumps in different percentual amounts (4Lz drop was around 15%, 4F around 10%), will probably be the final one. A more uniform BV change, equal to all jumps (or quads) seems much fairer.

Well, they could also be adjusting the base value differences of the jumps themselves. Maybe they think that a 4Lutz just is overvalued right now in comparison to the other quads.

 

[xeyra]

Well, they could also be adjusting the base value differences of the jumps themselves. Maybe they think that a 4Lutz just is overvalued right now in comparison to the other quads.

That might explain why the quad with the lesser drop was the 4F. Maybe because not a lot of people do it compared to the 4Lz, ISU thinks maybe 4Lz has become too easy. Then again, maybe 4Lo should be the highest rated quad after 4A given how few are doing it.

 

[TryMeLater]

Well, they could also be adjusting the base value differences of the jumps themselves. Maybe they think that a 4Lutz just is overvalued right now in comparison to the other quads.

But that's not fair.
It's not the first time they did it though.
Even under 6.0, when Midori Ito (#Queen) was landing 3A's galore, they quickly "equaled" it with a 3Lz-3T so that Yamaguchi will be competitive.

 

[Shayuki]

But that's not fair.
It's not the first time they did it though.
Even under 6.0, when Midori Ito (#Queen) was landing 3A's galore, they quickly "equaled" it with a 3Lz-3T so that Yamaguchi will be competitive.

Why is that not fair? This isn't the first time they change the base values.

Maybe when they were set they didn't think them through because no 4Lz was in sight.

 

[TryMeLater]

Why is that not fair? This isn't the first time they change the base values.

Maybe when they were set they didn't think them through because no 4Lz was in sight.

I don't mind adjusting the BV, the question is by how much.
Rare (and 4Lz is still rare - how many landed it? 4-5 people?) and difficult elements should be awarded.
This is still a sport.

 

[rosy14]

Tango and whatever ? Great ! How to help those skaters who are not particularly gifted in some rhythms, especially those who came after the compulsory dances were thrown away.
So Ed Sheran tango, Ed Sheeran “nature” and Ed Sheeran mozartified.

 

[AshWagsFan]

I like the lowering of the lutz bv this way (esp In ladies) they won’t just put a lutz with an incorrect edge in for points they will try to get it to an outside More or just do the flip.

 

[cruzceleste]

I like the lowering of the lutz bv this way (esp In ladies) they won’t just put a lutz with an incorrect edge in for points they will try to get it to an outside More or just do the flip.

Or get hard on the edge call, no point in punishing skaters, male and female, that are doing the jump in the right way

 

[gkelly]

But that's not fair.
It's not the first time they did it though.
Even under 6.0, when Midori Ito (#Queen) was landing 3A's galore, they quickly "equaled" it with a 3Lz-3T so that Yamaguchi will be competitive.

How did "they" equal it? There were no base values for individual jumps under 6.0, and also you can't really compare the value of a solo jump with the value of a combination.

(However, 3A+2T was a legal short program jump combination under 1992 rules, whereas triple-triple combinations were not allowed in the SP at that time.)

Judges set base values for whole programs -- there was no breakdown by element. We had no way of knowing what criteria they were using to decide which programs were more difficult overall. Skating skill and connecting moves (transitions), the way the program was laid out (e.g., frontloading/backloading), and technical quality of the elements as executed (especially in the FS where there were no mandatory deductions for errors) all figured into the same technical scores.

And each judge was free to use their own criteria to determine how difficult a program was. Undoubtedly there were differences of opinion among them.

 

[TryMeLater]

How did "they" equal it? There were no base values for individual jumps under 6.0, and also you can't really compare the value of a solo jump with the value of a combination.

(However, 3A+2T was a legal short program jump combination under 1992 rules, whereas triple-triple combinations were not allowed in the SP at that time.)

Judges set base values for whole programs -- there was no breakdown by element. We had no way of knowing what criteria they were using to decide which programs were more difficult overall. Skating skill and connecting moves (transitions), the way the program was laid out (e.g., frontloading/backloading), and technical quality of the elements as executed (especially in the FS where there were no mandatory deductions for errors) all figured into the same technical scores.

And each judge was free to use their own criteria to determine how difficult a program was. Undoubtedly there were differences of opinion among them.

They did equal it it the sense they gave the same base mark for the elements - you start seeing Yamaguchi and Ito being awarded roughly the same marks for technical.
But, I don't wish to hijack the thread, so I'll leave it at this.

 

[Tavi...]

I don't mind adjusting the BV, the question is by how much.
Rare (and 4Lz is still rare - how many landed it? 4-5 people?) and difficult elements should be awarded.
This is still a sport.

In the past season, at least 6 senior men - Hanyu, Jin, Chen, Zhou, Aliev, Kolyada - have all landed the 4Z - alone or in combination - with + GOE. That’s not really “rare” in my book. And I think most of these guys only started training it seriously within the past year or two. If learning/landing a 4Z is actually less difficult than previously thought, the BV points awarded should be lowered to reflect that. It is a sport, after all.