2018-2019 Season - New rules

[moonkat]

Bringing this back, because I just calculated the percentage changes.

3A: 5.8%
4T: 7.7%
4S: 7.6%
4Lo:12%
4F: 10%
4Lz:15.4%
4A: 16.7%

Literally, what is the reasoning for the huge difference in percentage change? Why is the 4F suddenly so valued? Has the 4A threatened to burn down ISU HQ? Did Rittberger rise up from his grave to haunt the Technical Committee? :gaah:

You know what, I would even take the flipflop stand and see how undervaluing quads goes, but only if they all get hit equally. Like this, it just looks suspiciously like they are giving preferential treatment to some skaters and that's not a good look. Also, jumps aside, what are they doing to the steps? The spins? I can totally see how skaters with beautiful steps&spins but not-so-great jumps are awarded with this. Not.

ETA: what the percentage changes do not show is, of course, the absolute value change. Which, incidentally, makes 4A 1 point harder than 4Lz, but 3A still 2.1 points harder than 3Lz.

Yuzu doesn't have 4F and is aiming for 4A

 

[chopinskate]

And for us, watching and trying to understand the results.

We don't have infinite time.

Well, I certainly can't say I find it all that interesting when results are almost predetermined depending on your nationality, and skaters CRY at being judged unfairly and are forced to sit there for the world to watch? I mean I know it's called the "Kiss and Cry" but personally I don't really enjoy watching teenagers seeing years of hard work and dreams get torn apart in seconds. Then again I don't enjoy reality TV, which for some reason is insanely popular here, but at least you know that's probably scripted.

The fact that they didn't even bother to double check their new proposal for obvious accounting errors kinda destroys my confidence in figure skating as a sport, TBH. Like, everyone else already thinks it's not a sport, but the fact that they didn't even bother to proofread the proposal they've been brewing for months, when they know it's going to affect hundreds of current and future skaters who've dedicated their entire childhoods, lives, and even long-term health to this sport, just seems downright abusive, IMO.

It IS a reality show. It attracts a certain kind of fan, and it is most certainly scripted.

Political Skating, that's the real name.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Do those mandatory GOE deductions start from zero, or can you find some positive criteria say on a fall or a stepout and subtract from there?

GOE deductions start from how much positives skaters have. Fall is -5 no matter what. Big errors are -4 or -3 no matter what as for example both hands down, visible UR, visible change of edge or other visible errors. Minor Stambles, loss of balance, unclear edge could get final positive GOE. I guess nothing is changed that much. The only change is that big errors should give you less PCS. Big errors are falls and multiple errors during the programme. Judges could see that on score sheet tho - if there are multiple UR, or changes of edges combine with bad spins, stumbles in StSq. One UR jump or one change of edge during the programme shouldnt make an impact on PCS. It needs multiple errors or fall for that.

 

[BillNeal]

At first when I read the following on page 8, I thought "hey, that's reasonable" but then I noticed:

4. In jump combinations / jump sequences when applying the GOE with the numerical value of the most difficult jump, the signs “<”, “e”, “V” are taken into account (e.g. 3T with Base Value 4.2 is considered more difficult than 3Lz< with reduced Base Value 3.98).

From their table on page 2, 3F< or e has a base value of 3.98. Guess the ISU lips sometimes too

 

[IndiaP12]

ISU is basically telling skaters to not jump 3A (mostly ladies) and 4A.
And we are going back to the time when URs were score killers (Even more than a downgrade for the 4A )

It’s going to get insane if people start jumping 4A [emoji33] imagine if somebody lands one, like Yuzu or someone, I will die

 

[mau]

They should increase the difference between 3Lz3Lo and 3Lz3T and instead they decrease it? :hpull:

And why the heck are a flutz or an UR 4Lz worth more than a 4A<? Why is a 4A<< worth more than a 4A<? Why why why? :hpull: :hpull: :hpull:

 

[chillgil]

im a total noob but is there some sort of contact info for the ISU head??? there should be some sort of press conference or something to give them a chance to defend these proposed rules. Also this may not be the best place to ask but how exactly are the people in charge held to the expectations that the rules they propose are fair? In other words, is there a n y t h i n g we, as the public, can do?? The system as a whole just seems like actually broken

 

[anirien]

im a total noob but is there some sort of contact info for the ISU head??? there should be some sort of press conference or something to give them a chance to defend these proposed rules. Also this may not be the best place to ask but how exactly are the people in charge held to the expectations that the rules they propose are fair? In other words, is there a n y t h i n g we, as the public, can do?? The system as a whole just seems like actually broken

Probably the best way to get a response is via social media. I doubt they're monitoring skating boards for reactions but if there's a big enough push back on social media they might at least acknowledge it? Thoughts?

 

[chopinskate]

It's a good idea, and there's time for it to gain traction. I don't know if it will be effective, though.

 

[Harriet]

H'm. I can see the message I think (or I think they think) they're sending with these changes, and I kind of agree with it, which is: okay, you've had some time to get to grips with all the frills and complexities, now you don't get slack cut on the basics any more, you have to do everything well. I'm not sure this set of changes is going to achieve that, but not being clairvoyants, I suppose the best they can hope for is to see how it goes and course-correct again when a larger body of evidence comes in.

The changes to base values...I actually like how clear they're being about penalties for under-rotations and edge calls, but it also feels like a backhanded way of addressing score inflation, and this is not how you do that.

 

[GF2445]

It looks like they are completely revamping the scoring for Ice Dance as well!
I've calculated the max technical scores (Level 4 & for all elements except choreographic elements that have a fixed base value, and +5 GOE for all elements)for the Rhythm Dance (RD) and Free Dance, and I have found that:

The top TES for the RD is 51.52- so I imagine the PCS factor will increase from 0.8 (40pts) to 1.0 (50pts)
51.52 + 50.00 = 101.52

__Li4 5.30+1.73= 7.03
SyTwL4 3.17+1.82= 4.99
SyTwM4 3.17+1.82= 4.99
__St4 7.95+4.84= 12.79
1TR4+kpYYY 6.85+4.01= 10.86
2TR4+kpYYY 6.85+4.01= 10.86
__________________________________________
The top TES for the FS os 77.84- so I imagine the PCS factor will increase from 1.2 (60pts) to 1.6 (80pts)
77.84 + 80.00 = 157.84

__Li4 5.30+1.73= 7.03
__Li4 5.30+1.73= 7.03
__Li4 5.30+1.73= 7.03
SyTwL4 3.17+1.82= 4.99
SyTwM4 3.17+1.82= 4.99
(Co)Sp4 6.00+2.25= 8.25
__St4 7.95+4.84= 12.79
OFStL4 3.17+1.82= 4.99
OFStM4 3.17+1.82= 4.99
ChSt1 1.1+4.15= 5.25
Ch__1 1.1+4.15= 5.25
Ch__1 1.1+4.15= 5.25

So if all goes to plan (unless I made a maths error somewhere) the max score will now be
259.63

 

[Kara]

Has there ever been an edge call for a 4Lz or 4F before because I don't recall ever seeing one. Nonetheless, I can't believe they're going through with this.:noshake: Takes like 5 minutes for anyone to see it's BS. I'm gonna throw a tomato next time they introduce an ISU head.

 

[chopinskate]

I think Zhou had on his 4F these worlds?

 

[charlotte14]

Has there ever been an edge call for a 4Lz or 4F before because I don't recall ever seeing one. Nonetheless, I can't believe they're going through with this.:noshake: Takes like 5 minutes for anyone to see it's BS. I'm gonna throw a tomato next time they introduce an ISU head.

GO FOR THE 3,25 FLUTZ, it will be counted as 4Lz. It's easy and you will still get higher BV than a 4A<!

LADIES!!! GO FOR IT!

 

[xeyra]

Has there ever been an edge call for a 4Lz or 4F before because I don't recall ever seeing one. Nonetheless, I can't believe they're going through with this.:noshake: Takes like 5 minutes for anyone to see it's BS. I'm gonna throw a tomato next time they introduce an ISU head.

Daniel Grassl, a young Italian skater, recently landed a 4Lz and fell on a 4Fe< in competition.

 

[Kara]

Just checked Vincent's protocol and he just got an attention, but it sounds like maybe the lack of calls are just because of the sample size of skaters going for it in competition. But it's obvious to see that it's a judging issue. The numbers are nonsensical at the moment, but won't matter when judges give GOE to certain skaters like candy and URs and edges aren't getting called.

I was also a fan of having to hit the requirement of a jump being high and pretty to look at before getting GOE points on other things like tanos or hitting the music, but looking at it now with +5/-5, it's just confusing and if I were a judge, I would have so many things running through my head in that second the jump goes that I would just kind of wing it by feeling.

 

[kevinVchicago]

Dreams are free.

[emoji23] so true

 

[yume]

They should increase the difference between 3Lz3Lo and 3Lz3T and instead they decrease it? :hpull:

:

They want ladies to stagnate or even regress. Why to bother practice harder stuffs when you have just a little advantage for it (or even no advantage if your GOEs sucks)?A shame.

 

[QuadThrow]

It looks like they are completely revamping the scoring for Ice Dance as well!
I've calculated the max technical scores (Level 4 & for all elements except choreographic elements that have a fixed base value, and +5 GOE for all elements)for the Rhythm Dance (RD) and Free Dance, and I have found that:

The top TES for the RD is 51.52- so I imagine the PCS factor will increase from 0.8 (40pts) to 1.0 (50pts)
51.52 + 50.00 = 101.52

__Li4 5.30+1.73= 7.03
SyTwL4 3.17+1.82= 4.99
SyTwM4 3.17+1.82= 4.99
__St4 7.95+4.84= 12.79
1TR4+kpYYY 6.85+4.01= 10.86
2TR4+kpYYY 6.85+4.01= 10.86
__________________________________________
The top TES for the FS os 77.84- so I imagine the PCS factor will increase from 1.2 (60pts) to 1.6 (80pts)
77.84 + 80.00 = 157.84

__Li4 5.30+1.73= 7.03
__Li4 5.30+1.73= 7.03
__Li4 5.30+1.73= 7.03
SyTwL4 3.17+1.82= 4.99
SyTwM4 3.17+1.82= 4.99
(Co)Sp4 6.00+2.25= 8.25
__St4 7.95+4.84= 12.79
OFStL4 3.17+1.82= 4.99
OFStM4 3.17+1.82= 4.99
ChSt1 1.1+4.15= 5.25
Ch__1 1.1+4.15= 5.25
Ch__1 1.1+4.15= 5.25

So if all goes to plan (unless I made a maths error somewhere) the max score will now be
259.63

I think they just want new world records.... The ratio between SD and FD stays almost the same.

The GOE will be more powerful now. The last years Ice Dance was totally dominated by gaining the levels. I like that developpment.

 

[Danny T]

The 4A< base value was a typo, they revised it to be 9.38. (https://www.isu.org/news/80-inside-...cale-of-values-1st-july-2018?templateParam=15)

LMAO at the level of incompetence