2018 USFS Olympic team selection thoughts

[TontoK]

My read it goes to the country just like qualifying through worlds which is consistent.

I'm positive you're correct. I think it was last cycle that a spot was earned for Finland at Nebelhorn, but the skater who earned it wasn't selected.

It caused some mini-drama on the boards, but I really don't remember it that well to be certain of the facts.

No worries, someone will be along shortly to remind me. Or tell me I'm wrong.

 

[skylark]

It's funny, I haven't paid this much attention to pairs in a long time. I think that's probably based on the fact we have some really intriguing teams this season.

I really wish USFS had thought of putting Ashley and Timothy together sooner, they have lovely lines and I hope they stick around after this quad.

Yeah, why didn't they? :gaah:

IIRC, it was the same USAF guy, Mitch somebody, who suggested Stellato/Bartholomay pair and Cain/LeDuc. If that's wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me. But if it's right, it means someone in a position to influence is being pro-active re US pairs.

Ashley is only 21; Tim is 26, which isn't old for pairs men. From how they talk, they're thinking long-term and a journey of process, so I'm hopeful as well. I'm not comparing anyone to V/T, but it's interesting that Maxim turned 30 before Sochi Olympics, and Tatiana was 27. And both had had long careers and struggles with former partners before they struck magic together. There are other factors, but still.

I re-watched Alexa & Chris's programs from last year, and the thought surfaced that they are the very definition of a pair who have earned an Olympic spot. But I agree it will depend on who does well on GP circuit and at nationals.

 

[twirlingaround]

Yeah, why didn't they? :gaah:

IIRC, it was the same USAF guy, Mitch somebody, who suggested Stellato/Bartholomay pair and Cain/LeDuc. If that's wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me. But if it's right, it means someone in a position to influence is being pro-active re US pairs.

Ashley is only 21; Tim is 26, which isn't old for pairs men. From how they talk, they're thinking long-term and a journey of process, so I'm hopeful as well. I'm not comparing anyone to V/T, but it's interesting that Maxim turned 30 before Sochi Olympics, and Tatiana was 27. And both had had long careers and struggles with former partners before they struck magic together. There are other factors, but still.

I re-watched Alexa & Chris's programs from last year, and the thought surfaced that they are the very definition of a pair who have earned an Olympic spot. But I agree it will depend on who does well on GP circuit and at nationals.

Alexa and Chris will and should do well at both their grand Prixs even with mistakes! USFSA set them up to go to two of the easier Grand Prixs and I'm hoping they make the GPF and that will solidify their spot no matter what happens at Nationals!

 

[Cherry blossom]

As long as Shibsibs and Karen chen make the team I'm good :agree:

 

[karne]

I seem to remember an Olympic qualification event in the past when some federation sent a skater who wasn't even Olympic eligible by age (in the days when the age minimum for fall competitions was 14 as of July 1 even though it was 15 for championships) or by citizenship to earn a spot for the country, to be used by an eligible skater. Or maybe I'm just remembering talk that a federation might or could do that, but in the end they did send an Olympic-eligible skater or no one to the qualifier.

It couldn't happen nowadays because Nebelhorn is a Senior international, so the skaters must be age-eligible.

The other one that happens sometimes is when the country sends a citizenship-ineligible skater to earn the spot for a skater with citizenship. I believe Japan are looking at doing this in pairs this year with Suto/Boudreau-Audet. It could happen to us, too.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I agree that the way they've competed in the past gives Scimeca and Knierim the inside track to that one spot.

I think so, too. In the past, I think the spot would for sure go to the winner of Nationals, but whatever team goes will have to compete in both segments of the Team Pairs event. Sending the wrong team could cost the US a medal.

 

[TontoK]

I think so, too. In the past, I think the spot would for sure go to the winner of Nationals, but whatever team goes will have to compete in both segments of the Team Pairs event. Sending the wrong team could cost the US a medal.

Oh my. I cannot imagine USFSA leaving the National Champions off the Olympic team in favor of a team that did not win.

The backlash would be enormous, and rightly so.

More likely, in my mind, is sketchy judging in a close competition, to make sure the favored team wins.

I still think the K's are favored and should win, but it is not a lock. If they are clearly beaten at US Nats, I don't think they get the spot. And they shouldn't.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Oh my. I cannot imagine USFSA leaving the National Champions off the Olympic team in favor of a team that did not win.

I wouldn't like to see that happen, because unlike Ashley, who had tremendous success in the year leading up to 2014 Nationals, none of our pair teams have competed especially well (and consistently) in international events. However, I also understand that pairs will be the wildcard for the US in the team event, so I get that the USFSA wouldn't want to send a pair who had just one good competition if there is a surprise winner. It could be a tough situation, but hopefully one team has a great international season and proceeds to win Nationals so it isn't an issue.

 

[el henry]

This to me has the potential to be one the most incredible Nationals/Olympic stories. Deanna Stellato coming back at the age of 34 to do pairs - doing those crazy elements (that most seasoned pairs skaters can't do). They win Nationals and head to the Olympics.

While I want the Knierims to go to the Olympics, this Cinderellato story would be epic.

I am *so* torn between girlfriend Alexa and girlfriend Deanna. And they both have Rohene SPs, what to do, what to do

 

[StitchMonkey]

I am *so* torn between girlfriend Alexa and girlfriend Deanna. And they both have Rohene SPs, what to do, what to do

See the thing is... if Deanna gets to go... it just means Alexa and all the other pairs girls clearly have more time. Deanna going now in her early 30s would just show that 2022 is still possible for Alexa and Ashley and Haven and Tarah...so there is some temptation there. At the same time I do think Alexa and Chris have earned it.


I think a lot will depend on the GP season. I would not want to see someone who struggled in the fall win nationals and get sent over Alexa and Chris unless Alexa and Chris have and even worse fall season. I kinda feel for a team to get sent over Alexa and Chris they should have to do better than them both and nationals and during the fall.

I really wish Deanna and Nate would get the SA spot....

 

[el henry]

......

I really wish Deanna and Nate would get the SA spot....

Deanna and Nate are at Champs Camp!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BX_O34sFnSB/?taken-by=icenetwork

Could it possibly be.......:agree:

 

[ice coverage]

Deanna and Nate are at Champs Camp!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BX_O34sFnSB/?taken-by=icenetwork

Could it possibly be.......:agree:

Ashley and Timothy are at Champs Camp as well.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BX_MG_hF_Lr/?taken-by=icenetwork (Aug 19)
https://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/899002983400263680​

So any counting of chickens re Skate America would be premature.

---

... I really wish USFS had thought of putting Ashley and Timothy together sooner, they have lovely lines and I hope they stick around after this quad.

Yeah, why didn't they? :gaah:

IIRC, it was the same USAF guy, Mitch somebody, who suggested Stellato/Bartholomay pair and Cain/LeDuc. If that's wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me. But if it's right, it means someone in a position to influence is being pro-active re US pairs. ...

Mitch Moyer is his name.

Worth recalling that Ashley Cain previously had taken herself off the market as a partner for pairs, and was turning down "great" opportunities in pairs.
Her stated goal in 2014 was to make the 2018 Olympic team in singles.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2014...elphia-postcards-cain-is-able-but-not-willing (Jul 2014)​

Even at the time when the Cain/LeDuc partnership first was announced, Ashley said that she intended to continue her singles career as well.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/05/31/181227238/the-inside-edge-cain-leduc-reenter-pairs-fray (May 2016)​

 

[Skater Boy]

The Knerims seem to be the faves. They have shown great potential and for a while I was thinking top 5 and then they stalled and had injuries and then came the Chinese and Canadians. The Russians somehow manage to remain competitive even though right now they don't have a superstar team in great shape. And I was a bit surprised at worlds this year the Canadians were still strong enough to hold off the Americans. I think we will see a great battle between all the pairs teams but I still think the Knerims will still make it. It is the second spot that is really open = its the Knerims to lose.

 

[musicfan80]

It is the second spot that is really open = its the Knerims to lose.

2nd spot for the Olympics? I thought the U.S. only had 1 pairs spot due to the results from 2017 Worlds. Did something change?

 

[Ice Dance]

No. Only one U.S. pairs spot at the Olympics. Two at Worlds.

 

[bevybean]

It couldn't happen nowadays because Nebelhorn is a Senior international, so the skaters must be age-eligible.

The other one that happens sometimes is when the country sends a citizenship-ineligible skater to earn the spot for a skater with citizenship. I believe Japan are looking at doing this in pairs this year with Suto/Boudreau-Audet. It could happen to us, too.

Wait wait wait...So, could the US win a second Olympic spot through Nebelhorn? Am I miss reading this or just confused about karne's citizenship?

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Wait wait wait...So, could the US win a second Olympic spot through Nebelhorn? Am I miss reading this or just confused about karne's citizenship?

Karne is from Australia. The U.S. cannot win a second Olympic spot through Nebelhorn. I heard that if France chooses to NOT use its second spot it may go to the U.S. but first why would France ever do that and second, the rules are unclear if the U.S. will automatically get a second spot considering the reason why they didn't receive a second spot was due to entry quotas if one country decides to not use all of their allotted slots.

 

[ice coverage]

Karne is from Australia. The U.S. cannot win a second Olympic spot through Nebelhorn. I heard that if France chooses to NOT use its second spot it may go to the U.S. but first why would France ever do that and second, the rules are unclear if the U.S. will automatically get a second spot considering the reason why they didn't receive a second spot was due to entry quotas if one country decides to not use all of their allotted slots.

F. REALLOCATION OF UNUSED QUOTA PLACES

Qualification places earned and not used for the individual events (not the Team Event) by the NOCs, will be filled by stand-by NOCs based on the final result of the designated ISU Senior International Qualification Competition for those NOCs not qualified and not yet represented.

http://static.isu.org/media/335411/qualification-system_figure-skating_v11.pdf (see p. 6)​

It would be a clear contradiction of the published rules if France did not use its second pair spot and the U.S. then were to receive the spot.

I suppose stranger things have happened, but I don't know how it could be perceived as anything but a contradiction.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

F. REALLOCATION OF UNUSED QUOTA PLACES

Qualification places earned and not used for the individual events (not the Team Event) by the NOCs, will be filled by stand-by NOCs based on the final result of the designated ISU Senior International Qualification Competition for those NOCs not qualified and not yet represented.

http://static.isu.org/media/335411/qualification-system_figure-skating_v11.pdf (see p. 6)​

It would be a clear contradiction of the published rules if France did not use its second pair spot and the U.S. then were to receive the spot.

I suppose stranger things have happened, but I don't know how it could be perceived as anything but a contradiction.

Interesting. So it is pretty clear then. I actually think the rules should be amended or changed for the next Olympics, and not just because it happened to the U.S. this time but because I'd like to think a country who otherwise qualified two entries at Worlds should get priority so long as it doesn't interfere with the number of entries that can be earned through Nebelhorn.

 

[Moxiejan]

Interesting. So it is pretty clear then. I actually think the rules should be amended or changed for the next Olympics, and not just because it happened to the U.S. this time but because I'd like to think a country who otherwise qualified two entries at Worlds should get priority so long as it doesn't interfere with the number of entries that can be earned through Nebelhorn.

Under the rules, it's clear that both France and the U.S. did "earn" two pairs spots (for both Olympics and Worlds), but because that would cause the Olympic entries from Nebelhorn to be reduced for Olympics, the U.S. can "use" only one of its Olympic spots.

HOWEVER, there is a situation of France having citizenship issues with two of its three top pairs, meaning that it might not be able to "use" both Olympic spots, even if it wanted to. And this is where the language in the Olympic rules is quite unclear: It states that a team like the U.S. can't "use" all of its earned spots IF that would cause a reduction to the minimum required to be earned at Nebelhorn. But if France can't use both of its spots, allowing the U.S. to use both of its spots would not cause a reduction to the Nebelhorn minimum; it would keep it at exactly the same level as if France had indeed used both spots.

If it turns out that France can't qualify two pairs, I fully expect a legal challenge by USFS.