- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
sounds like she could be called the skating version of Rita Skeeter
I like that comparison!
Who will be the skating Hermione to force her into a jar and forbid her to do her shady interviews?
2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
I like that comparison!
Who will be the skating Hermione to force her into a jar and forbid her to do her shady interviews?
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
In JGPF 2017 Sasha fell on her 4S too and still won the title. In WC 2019 Kihira fell on her second 3A and still had second best free skate of the day (better than many flawless skaters). And so on. So, are you trying to prove that with one fall/fault in two programs you are not allowed to have better score than Gubanova? I don't think so.
Oh yeah we all know there is a LOT of politicking at domestic competitions.
RusFed will score Tutberidze skaters higher in spite of mistake because that group proved they can bring consistent results every year, so it's a safe bet.
Konstantinova we don't know why she is so beloved, i mean she is a lovely skater (i like her style) but to put her in front of the others even when she does mistakes who knows: some say her parents have some power, or it's TAT considering she really likes her, or someone else. She is improving at international competitions though and that's good.
To be fair though Stanislava Konstantinova did medal at her JGP event (bronze) while Gubanova didn't (4th) but if that was the logic then Sofia Samodurova should have finished higher than both of them at senior nationals since she won both events and qualified for Finals.
Like i said previously Gubanova main goal is to get senior challenger events and skate well there, try to win all of them , that's what she needs to get senior GP spots the season after.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2019
Falling from a quad in old system still gave skaters like 8 points.
Kostornaya’s step out was easily compensated with bonus from having 2 fully backloaded programs. GOEs for both were maximized with tanos/rippons, their scores weren’t a result of politicking.
Kostornaya’s step out was easily compensated with bonus from having 2 fully backloaded programs. GOEs for both were maximized with tanos/rippons, their scores weren’t a result of politicking.
Agreed on Trusova, but falling in a SP should affect score in a much bigger way, at the end of the day you're falling in one of only three jumping elements required.
Then we should also talk about the lutz edge which could have been called ! as flat.
Well jgpf 2017 Kostornaia could have win if judges gave her better pcs but then judges didn’t call her wrong edge while Samodurova got edge attention as I remember.2019WC?Kihira fell on her 3a but remember her 3a3t.What Trusova did at junior nationals was 4s fell and also underotated. Do you think It’s same?
I brought up this is not because I want to argue with results.If it was unfair or whatever,It won’t change anything.We should not live in the past should focus on present and future.I brought up this because Nussnacker totally didn’t undersrtand the situation what nastya had.
Should’ve never said that you kind of always expect athletes to say: I will work harder, I lost due to my own faults, this wasn't accomplished because I wasn't preparing correctly.
She doesn't seem to think this way…
Many people think nastya’s issue with this interview is being arrogant.What if she got fair score,went to major competitions and had career.Who dare to say she is arrogant.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2019
So should be called Gubanova’s lutz edge as well then, let’s not have selective blindness.
69 for a program with 1 fall, given that everything else is clean with all levels received is not abnormal.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
It did affect the score - she got 69 points, same score Trusova got when she fell in the SP at Jr Nationals this season.
Gubanova had no major errors and definitely deserved to be on the podium, but the quality of all of the jump elements Trusova and Kostornaia, did excluding their 1 fall each, was much higher so it made up for it. If they’re getting +2/+3 on their jumps vs. Gubanova mostly +1, this can overcome 1 mistake, which is what happened. She is a beautiful skater - one of my favorites - but the 2nd half of her LP 2017-2018 was lacking in speed between the jumps, causing them to look muscled and small compared to Kostornaia and Trusova who fly into their jumps.
I need to rewatch it in that instance but usually Gubanova has a much nicer outside edge on the lutz than Kostornaya due to different technique: she doesn't have the russian switching between inside and outside edge to gain momentum on the lutz.
Gubanova has no edge problem.She has kind of deep edge.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2019
I totally understand her situation and I can and will say whatever I feel like I want to say.
She might have been slightly mistreated on 1 or 2 competitions, she was given opportunities afterwards, she didn’t use them to their fullest.
Let’s not pretend as if she was clean as a whistle for the whole duration of her career and got wronged every single national and international competition she ever took part in. There’s some fault that lies on Nastya as well.
Given the dislike ratio on the video, you can tell I wasn’t the only one who was surprised to hear her say what she said.
Of course Nastya had some failures was not always perfect.So is everyone else except skaters like Samodurova or Tarusina.At least other skaters get overscored usually at nationals while Nastya was always underscored.She always got wronged at nationals.The most underscored nationals were 2018junior nationals and 2019 nationals.At 2019 nationals they underscored her pcs but gave her level 3 on her spins which had no problems.She could have gone to Euros if she was scored correctly instead of Konstantinova
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
Yes, in relative comparison with the field on particular competition, definitely. Sahsa's programs didn't hold on one quad jump, she had another 10 jumps, not to mention other elements. Sasha's BV (with UR call on her 4S) was 68.73, Gubanova's BV was 59.90 (with UR call on her second combo). One fall cost Sasha 4 points, but there are another 5-6 (which pretty much fits the final margin of Sasha in TES). So, there is no argument about Gubanova having higher score than Sasha.
And that's not something specific for russian domestic competition. Sasha also received pretty high score on an international competition even when she fell on quad as I've pointed out. You related it particularly to russian nationals, I gave you the simplest examples of international competitions with similar things.
That's what an athlete says when he/she respects the competitors. Also, she spoke about skaters who were not related with 2018 junior nationals. Alina, e. g. was mentioned as "being lucky for her birth date" (it is also funny that on one hand she complains about birth date that prevented her from taking part in olympics, while she with the same breath talks about Olympics for elder and honored). I dare to say that such comment is not respectful, Alina and others are not to blame for what Gubanova may feel. And if she felt salty, she could talk about judges, fed, etc., who according to her (and you) caused alleged unfair scoring. But skaters, her competitors, are probably easy target. And that's what you advocate for, talking about other skaters with no respect.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
I think the main controversy about RJN 18 was Konstantinova getting very high components, finishing 3rd, and being sent to JWC. Kostornaia and Trusova made mistakes, but they were compensated by backloaded jumps, almost all level 4s and checking bullets on GOE.
And that comment about being born earlier was indeed tactless. You could say same about Alina who finished 2nd at RN 17, but wasn't sent to any competitions despite being better than most of her competitors. Also, at RN 18 Gubanova didn't finish near top 2 which were sent to OG. Had she finished at least on the podium, she could have complained that her birthday was unlucky and that she could qualify for senior comps.
And that comment about being born earlier was indeed tactless. You could say same about Alina who finished 2nd at RN 17, but wasn't sent to any competitions despite being better than most of her competitors. Also, at RN 18 Gubanova didn't finish near top 2 which were sent to OG. Had she finished at least on the podium, she could have complained that her birthday was unlucky and that she could qualify for senior comps.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2019
Yes but I think after what we saw from Alina and the three new Russian juniors it won't take much for Russian fed to make an excuse not put Alina on the team. Yes, Masha had like 6 bad performances but I pretty much knew that she was done for after placing 9th at NHK you can't do that in many major feds these days (especially Russia) and expect to still make the team. Also the only reasons for Masha being on GP this year #1 (France always invites her), #2 (she was still in top 24 WS and I the nations pick standings before season's bests), and #3 (Maria just switched coaches so maybe that gave fed new hope because 3 months ago she switched to Sokolovskaia and she is training with Samarin).:agree:
Actually, Eteri skaters never got much internal politiking.
In short, Eteri is no-one, she just showed up and started training skaters, and then having good results.
TRaditionally, in Russia, the coaching system is sort of a heritage from soviet times. You have the "main" coaches, and the base coaches. So there is a bunch of people coaching athletes. Once an athlete shows promise, this athlete is given to one of the main coaches. Some no-name cannot coach a top athletes, and all top athletes remain with a small bunch of top coaches. Notice that this does not mean that the main coach is a bad coach, see Mishin or TAT.
There are still quite a few rinks that operate like this, with a bunch of coaches working with kids, and promising juniors switching to the "main" coach.
And, surprise, a huge chunk of rusfed is those old style people who don't really like the idea of some random woman going to a random rink and raising champions, and them having no participation in that.
Eteri's skaters, with exception of Alina maybe, are not really propped by rusfed. Alina is a bit, but she earned it by winning the olympics. Everybody else get what they earn, basically. This is sort of changing this year after the olympics, but before, if anything, it looked like rusfed would hold Eteri skaters back to make sure they don't hog all the spots. Even now, I feel that rusfed is trying to make sure Eteri does not hog all the spots and financing, even if it takes "sinking" some of her less talented students.
Which even makes sense, because FS in Russia is mostly state funded, and rusfed is not ready to transform Eteri into Viner Jr. by simply giving all the funding to her.
Now, Konstantinova is propped. Sotskova was propped at rusnats before olympics.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
Very thoughtful post. 3A sure has the Eteri advantage and Stasya has the TAT advantage. It's just wrong on all levels for Nastya to skate clean at Russian Junior Nationals and finish 4th with the three girls ahead of her falling. That has to be the worst scoring Nastya ever received. No wonder she was so devastated after the free skate score came up. Gubanova was more deserving of first place than fourth place in that event. but at this point it's important for her to let those negative thoughts leave her and get off to a good start with her new coach. She has a lot of talent but she must become stronger mentally and more consistent as well.
It sure was fun to revisit those videos from that Junior Nationals and to see nastya stanislava Alena and Sasha skate their FS back to back to back to back.
Thans Payako for those videos.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2011
Very thoughtful post. 3A sure has the Eteri advantage and Stasya has the TAT advantage. It's just wrong on all levels for Nastya to skate clean at Russian Junior Nationals and finish 4th with the three girls ahead of her falling. That has to be the worst scoring Nastya ever received. No wonder she was so devastated after the free skate score came up. Gubanova was more deserving of first place than fourth place in that event. but at this point it's important for her to let those negative thoughts leave her and get off to a good start with her new coach. She has a lot of talent but she must become stronger mentally and more consistent as well.
It sure was fun to revisit those videos from that Junior Nationals and to see nastya stanislava Alena and Sasha skate their FS back to back to back to back.
do you understand how the scoring system works?
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
The videos were wonderful to see. But I can't believe there was so many empty seats for the free skate.
I agree with you about the scoring. Nastya some would say was deserving of first and ended up in fourth while the three girls ahead of her all fell. I don't understand how Nastya was treated so disrespectfully by the judges at home after she skated great at the Junior Grand Prix final 1 month earlier winning the silver medal. She also had a very artistic and mature skating style for 15 and that should have been respected more than it was. I understand why she has been frustrated but she has to put all that behind her and start over with a new coach. Nastya can still make great strides in her career and she has to do it with this new coach because after getting expelled from CSKA and this dubious interview she did with Elena Rodina her reputation has taken a hit.
Thanks for the video of the 2018 Russian Junior Nationals. So many great skaters there with the girls so easy to like and respect them all. I have a kind of soft spot for Stanislava and while she may have fallen in the short program for free skate was very good. But for sure Nastya should have finished ahead of her and gone to Junior worlds instead if Stasya.
And it's amazing how much better Alena and Sasha became in the following year. Anna too.
If you look at the protocols all the technical advantage Kostornaya had compared to Gubanova was due to judges who called Nastya second 3-3-2 combo underrotated. (then obviously GOE and components)
Gubanova also had a backloaded program outside the opening combo and unlike Kostornaya she had 2 lutzes.
https://fsrussia.ru/results/1718/junnat1718/e__Scores.pdf
Anyway it's a bit pointless discussing it now, you can't change it.
Oh come on, while you're right it's not as clear as with other skaters but you know as well that Eteri skaters were saved at domestic competitions, i watched a lot of cup of russia events this year and last, and there were definitely a couple where i remember Usacheva finishing on the podium despite big mistakes in the SP like missing the combo and even some small little mistake in the free.
It's clear to me that sometimes judges give Eteri's skaters the benefit of the doubt not dropping scores as harshly whenever they make mistakes, not checking the edges, it's not even that i'm all fully against it, at the end of the day they bring the results, all of this didn't come out of nowhere.
It's funny you mentioned Viner cause i think we're slowly getting there, wait another Olympics or two. A lot has changed since Pyeongchang, before that Eteri was truly no one, now her opinions have weight.
