Does the US have 2 or 3 spots for the juniors? I would hope that Lindsay Thorngren would get an invite considering she just won Junior Nationals.
2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating
- Thread starter MarinHondas
- Start date
Does the US have 2 or 3 spots for the juniors? I would hope that Lindsay Thorngren would get an invite considering she just won Junior Nationals.
I get that the hype around her is a bit ridiculous but it was to be expected considering she's the only US skater that looks to have a shot at beating the Russians right now. She lost the JGPF because not only did she fall but her under-rotations finally got called, she's been given very favorable scoring in that regard and at the JGPF the tech controller nailed her on them
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2016
US has 3 spots this year for junior worlds.
I don’t know much about Lindsay. Does she have 3-3s? Can she compete for top 7 at junior worlds?
Part of me thinks that Izzo shouldn’t go based on senior nationals, but part of me thinks she should go, to get experience.
Sierra has upped the ante with her jumps; I never would’ve thought her capable of a 3lutz-eu-3sal. Should Sierra go over Starr, who struggles with both lutz and flip?
That Rena girl was good in senior nationals but only with the jumps, should she get a chance to go?
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2015
Tbh Im super annoyed right now and wondering why I even give a you know what about womens figure skating right now. What Mariah did...the whole thing was just pure magic from start to finish. Just flawless perfection, a beautiful marriage of technical and artistry that will be regarded as iconic and clearly created a mood and moved the audience. I was in tears just watching on my couch. The fact that it wasnt enough to win...Im speechless. I dont care that a child can do a sloppy quad. Not when everything else is so pedestrian and childish. And I dont even mean that as an insult! Alyssa is still a child! What even is the freaking point of letting juniors compete at a senior event when they cannot at any other senior event. It doesnt make sense and it has robbed Mariah of a well deserved national title. This is a reason why interest in the sport is dying. Completely forgettable skating winning because of jumps(that are sloppy and ur a lot of the time to boot) and nothing else. I really want to do a little experiment and have my friends who know jack all about skating watch Mariah and Alyssa back to back and see if they can reason how Alyssa won by ten points. I'm a huge lifelong fan and I can barely understand how we got to this point. Mariah can be so proud that she finally put it together and I think in a lot of peoples hearts shes the true winner. At least she is in mine
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2018
Alysa
- Alysa Liu manages to nab gold from behind in a repeat of last year's circumstance. Great improvements made in the skating skills, speed, and performance departments but still lacks the effervescent and effortless quality that I am sure she will attain with experience. Alysa answered Mariah's war cry and put down a gauntlet for all to be wary of. Alysa may suffer from lack of speed going into and out of her jumps, but make no mistake because this girl is truly special.
Mariah Bell
- Bell managed to put forth one of the greatest Free Programs ever performed at Nationals. Maybe it was not as technically demanding as Bradie Tennell or Alysa Liu's programs, but coupled with her ethereal presence on the ice and a performance oozing with emotional viscosity, Bell entranced viewers and brought down the arena. Bell has always had the "IT" factor... the unexplainable quality that makes a person magnetic, allowing them to attract those around them without much effort and tonight, she brought it all together.
Bradie Tennell
- Tennell had everything going for her: body of work, consistency, Grade of Execution, performance components, and coming off of a career best Short program performance. However, something was troubling her and it showed in her skating tonight. There were lapses in the performance where she seemed robotic and seemingly going through the movements. We do not know of what has happened in her personal life or if it was the injury but I am sure that Bradie will go into Four Continents and Worlds improved and ready to tackle her programs like never before.
Honourable Mentions
- Sierra was stunning and the way she moved was like liquid gold. What a talented performer and her musicality was immensely nuanced and her jumps were superb tonight.
- Rena has so much potential and her jumping quality is very reminiscent of Wakaba. What a talented lady and I hope she gains some international assignments. Her double-Axel has enough room for a triple and her talking about wanting to up the ante in terms of jumps for next season is quit exciting.
- Gracie Gold... where to begin? Practices indicated that the qualities that made her a staple and a star are still present, but due to nerves and stamina Gold did not deliver a technically challenging skate. HOWEVER, tonight was a huge win and her emotional performance ranks as one of my favorites of the night. Gold stated that she will start preparing for next season and I am HERE for it because if a few months of TRUE training can produce a four triple program... what will a full six to eight months produce?
What an EVENTFUL night brimming with emotional stories, triumphs, tears, and sheer determination. Dare I say one of the most exciting and emotional Nationals in recent memory.
P.S. - This event made me realize how talented our B to C tier ladies were and I hope the federation focuses on developing depth instead of sensations that flicker like candles in the wind.
- Alysa Liu manages to nab gold from behind in a repeat of last year's circumstance. Great improvements made in the skating skills, speed, and performance departments but still lacks the effervescent and effortless quality that I am sure she will attain with experience. Alysa answered Mariah's war cry and put down a gauntlet for all to be wary of. Alysa may suffer from lack of speed going into and out of her jumps, but make no mistake because this girl is truly special.
Mariah Bell
- Bell managed to put forth one of the greatest Free Programs ever performed at Nationals. Maybe it was not as technically demanding as Bradie Tennell or Alysa Liu's programs, but coupled with her ethereal presence on the ice and a performance oozing with emotional viscosity, Bell entranced viewers and brought down the arena. Bell has always had the "IT" factor... the unexplainable quality that makes a person magnetic, allowing them to attract those around them without much effort and tonight, she brought it all together.
Bradie Tennell
- Tennell had everything going for her: body of work, consistency, Grade of Execution, performance components, and coming off of a career best Short program performance. However, something was troubling her and it showed in her skating tonight. There were lapses in the performance where she seemed robotic and seemingly going through the movements. We do not know of what has happened in her personal life or if it was the injury but I am sure that Bradie will go into Four Continents and Worlds improved and ready to tackle her programs like never before.
Honourable Mentions
- Sierra was stunning and the way she moved was like liquid gold. What a talented performer and her musicality was immensely nuanced and her jumps were superb tonight.
- Rena has so much potential and her jumping quality is very reminiscent of Wakaba. What a talented lady and I hope she gains some international assignments. Her double-Axel has enough room for a triple and her talking about wanting to up the ante in terms of jumps for next season is quit exciting.
- Gracie Gold... where to begin? Practices indicated that the qualities that made her a staple and a star are still present, but due to nerves and stamina Gold did not deliver a technically challenging skate. HOWEVER, tonight was a huge win and her emotional performance ranks as one of my favorites of the night. Gold stated that she will start preparing for next season and I am HERE for it because if a few months of TRUE training can produce a four triple program... what will a full six to eight months produce?
What an EVENTFUL night brimming with emotional stories, triumphs, tears, and sheer determination. Dare I say one of the most exciting and emotional Nationals in recent memory.
P.S. - This event made me realize how talented our B to C tier ladies were and I hope the federation focuses on developing depth instead of sensations that flicker like candles in the wind.
Lindsay landed 3Lz-3T and 2A-3T in her free skate. She competed at JGP Poland but her skates there were far from what she put out this weekend. She seems to have a lot of potential.
hwell:
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
I agree with you 100%. If it wasn’t for Gracie I would be done with “ladies” figure skating. It’s ridiculous.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think Alysa deserved her victory here given the current scoring environment. The truth is that the way figure skating is scored right now just doesn't reward artistry (and even then, that's a subjective thing to judge).
Alysa put out 3 triple axels, 1 quad lutz, and every triple-triple combination backloaded. Mariah is a stunningly expressive and fluid skater, but you can only give so many points for that in figure skating. And the judges sure did, nearly maxing out her Performance/Composition/Interpretation components like she's the new Kostner. The thing is though, Alysa isn't too shabby in her own expression and performance. She still has the juniorish bliss look, but she still gives a performance and serves the choreography, all while balancing with her quasi-elements. Maybe 68 was too high, but it was a) Nationals, b) a mostly visibly clean performance, c) she really has improved leaps and bounds in her speed and expression. You would have to pull her down to 58 PCS to push her below Mariah, and if Mariah gets 75, I'm not sure Alysa would deserve 58.
Also, no hate toward Mariah, but I feel like people are overlooking her technical flaws. Her spins? Gorgeous. In fact, the US ladies (Bradie, Alysa, Karen) have technically powerful spins - well centered, fast, good positions, and flexible enough. Because they don't have the flexibility of the Russians, they don't get enough credit but their spins should be on par with the Russians given their speed and centering. Her expression? Gorgeous. However, you can only reward that so much in the PCS. I wonder if I'm looking at this wrong, but my overall impression of Mariah's jumps isn't too fantastic. She's made huge improvements, finally nailing consistent triple-triples, but her landings still look sloppy and don't always have flow coming out. A lot of her landings look muscled and barely hung on. I get incredibly nervous watching her jump, and sometimes wince at those landings ... whereas Bradie's landings tend to be solid and crisp, aside from the few UR's. You can argue Alysa's jumps aren't too great either, and I agree, but I think they are scored fairly for what they put out. Their scores should've been closer, but I think Alysa still comes out on top.
If Mariah had more technically superior jumps, I would agree with the sentiment that she was robbed the champion title, but she doesn't have enough technical firepower to make up a 21.49 BV deficit. You could argue Alysa receives generous GOE but looking at the scorecards, judges really aren't lavishing her the way people seem to think she is. Relative to what Mariah gets for her jumps, I'd say Alysa's are fair. Alysa has a lot of room for improvement, but she's bringing a lot to a sports competition and it's hard to deny her the victory given what she puts out.
Alysa put out 3 triple axels, 1 quad lutz, and every triple-triple combination backloaded. Mariah is a stunningly expressive and fluid skater, but you can only give so many points for that in figure skating. And the judges sure did, nearly maxing out her Performance/Composition/Interpretation components like she's the new Kostner. The thing is though, Alysa isn't too shabby in her own expression and performance. She still has the juniorish bliss look, but she still gives a performance and serves the choreography, all while balancing with her quasi-elements. Maybe 68 was too high, but it was a) Nationals, b) a mostly visibly clean performance, c) she really has improved leaps and bounds in her speed and expression. You would have to pull her down to 58 PCS to push her below Mariah, and if Mariah gets 75, I'm not sure Alysa would deserve 58.
Also, no hate toward Mariah, but I feel like people are overlooking her technical flaws. Her spins? Gorgeous. In fact, the US ladies (Bradie, Alysa, Karen) have technically powerful spins - well centered, fast, good positions, and flexible enough. Because they don't have the flexibility of the Russians, they don't get enough credit but their spins should be on par with the Russians given their speed and centering. Her expression? Gorgeous. However, you can only reward that so much in the PCS. I wonder if I'm looking at this wrong, but my overall impression of Mariah's jumps isn't too fantastic. She's made huge improvements, finally nailing consistent triple-triples, but her landings still look sloppy and don't always have flow coming out. A lot of her landings look muscled and barely hung on. I get incredibly nervous watching her jump, and sometimes wince at those landings ... whereas Bradie's landings tend to be solid and crisp, aside from the few UR's. You can argue Alysa's jumps aren't too great either, and I agree, but I think they are scored fairly for what they put out. Their scores should've been closer, but I think Alysa still comes out on top.
If Mariah had more technically superior jumps, I would agree with the sentiment that she was robbed the champion title, but she doesn't have enough technical firepower to make up a 21.49 BV deficit. You could argue Alysa receives generous GOE but looking at the scorecards, judges really aren't lavishing her the way people seem to think she is. Relative to what Mariah gets for her jumps, I'd say Alysa's are fair. Alysa has a lot of room for improvement, but she's bringing a lot to a sports competition and it's hard to deny her the victory given what she puts out.
Spot on! Alysa should have never been allowed to compete in a Senior Nationals Competition. Let's see how she does when she hits 16 years old and grows 3-4 inches. Mariah was robbed of the National Title and I am angry about it. This "sport" has it all wrong.
Why would anyone expect her to be competitive with the Russian seniors at this point?
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2017
So will USFS pick Karen Chen to go to 4CC? Amber Glenn and Starr have higher SB score but their season is not very good either (Glenn did medal at CS though)
Can’t believe what just happened. 
IMHO besides Kwan’s free programs at 2003 and 2004 nationals, Mariah’s free program tonight was probably the most memorable in terms of the emotion it brought to the audience. Love Alysa, but it’s just too saddening to see her win tonight when you compared her free to Mariah’s.
The age limit topic has been discussed for a long time, but tonight was perhaps another prime example of why the age limit should be raised. Or maybe the PCS should have a higher factor for the “ladies.” If the technical scores for the ladies are just as high as the mens, then maybe the ladies PCS should have the same factor as the mens?
IMHO besides Kwan’s free programs at 2003 and 2004 nationals, Mariah’s free program tonight was probably the most memorable in terms of the emotion it brought to the audience. Love Alysa, but it’s just too saddening to see her win tonight when you compared her free to Mariah’s. The age limit topic has been discussed for a long time, but tonight was perhaps another prime example of why the age limit should be raised. Or maybe the PCS should have a higher factor for the “ladies.” If the technical scores for the ladies are just as high as the mens, then maybe the ladies PCS should have the same factor as the mens?
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2014
Wow alll the feels tonight!!! The ladies were on fire, so many emotional performances.
I like Alysa a lot but She just doesn’t sell me on performances yet. By the 2022 Olympics I think she will be there.
Teared up twice tonite, once for Mariah (wow!!! Some of the best US women’s skating I’ve seen in ages)
Gracie always has my attention. I really feel and relate to her on a personal level. I wish her nothing but the best and was extremely moved by her performance.
I like Alysa a lot but She just doesn’t sell me on performances yet. By the 2022 Olympics I think she will be there.
Teared up twice tonite, once for Mariah (wow!!! Some of the best US women’s skating I’ve seen in ages)
Gracie always has my attention. I really feel and relate to her on a personal level. I wish her nothing but the best and was extremely moved by her performance.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2007
I thought this nationals overall was kind of meh. It suffered from the loss of Cui and Harrell. But Gracie and Mariah both made my cry purely from the emotion at the end of their respective skates. They were the real jems of this competition.
Liu's win I think was deserved as a result of her dramatic technical superiority, but her performances didn't move me.
Liu's win I think was deserved as a result of her dramatic technical superiority, but her performances didn't move me.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2019
There is nothing wrong with being young with big jumps and skating to twinkly music with a joyful smile on your face. Different things will appeal to different people in skating.
I loved Alysa's performance. Her performance sparked joy for me. The thrill of her jumps, her lovely spins and just her beautiful smile and charm out there on ice. She deserved her win.
I loved Alysa's performance. Her performance sparked joy for me. The thrill of her jumps, her lovely spins and just her beautiful smile and charm out there on ice. She deserved her win.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
It reminds me of the year that Rachel Flatt won the US national championship, but the performance that captured everyone's hearts was Mirai's little Carmen free skate (which she would later get 4th at the Olympics with in Vancouver). At the time, a lot of casual fans, including my family, asked, "why didn't that little Asian girl win?" And their eyes glaze when you pull up a PDF of the judges detailed scores, ah you see Mirai had an underrotation here which reduced the value of her flip by 40% and ... zzzz
My family again asked why didn't that Bell girl win? Her performance was the one that everyone was impressed with, the one they fell in love with. And a casual fan doesn't care that a triple axel is worth 7 more points than a double and a quad lutz is worth more than a triple lutz, and Mariah might have had a ! which would further reduce her score, you can see on this pdf that ... zzzzz
My family again asked why didn't that Bell girl win? Her performance was the one that everyone was impressed with, the one they fell in love with. And a casual fan doesn't care that a triple axel is worth 7 more points than a double and a quad lutz is worth more than a triple lutz, and Mariah might have had a ! which would further reduce her score, you can see on this pdf that ... zzzzz
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
I just don’t like the direction ladies figure skating is going. And I believe it is the reason figure skating is sinking faster than a lead balloon. I guarantee you no casual fan understood what happened, and people have a general tendency to dislike things they don’t understand. See: me and ice dance judging. I thought Alysa’s performance was boring. Sorry.
