2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

[ladyjane]

This is a good idea: only let juniors skate at a senior nationals when it's the season before they can do so internationally, but no earlier. It's not a new idea, it's how the Russians do it (and I'm thinking of all this quite apart from discussions what the age limit internationally should be). I mean, last year was even more frustrating as Alysa couldn't even be assigned to JR worlds, but at least she could go to the JGP's the season immediately after - so in the same year. Sorry, not up to me, but I liked SnowWhites post on this.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

What harm is done by the National champion being the best skater in the country, regardless of age?

 

[Spirals for Miles]

This is a good idea: only let juniors skate at a senior nationals when it's the season before they can do so internationally, but no earlier. It's not a new idea, it's how the Russians do it (and I'm thinking of all this quite apart from discussions what the age limit internationally should be). I mean, last year was even more frustrating as Alysa couldn't even be assigned to JR worlds, but at least she could go to the JGP's the season immediately after - so in the same year. Sorry, not up to me, but I liked SnowWhites post on this.

topic: It's similar to how Russia does it, but not quite. There, you have to be 14 years old that year (not before July 1), so skaters born in the second half of the year can skate at senior nationals twice before becoming senior eligible. As an example, Alena Kostornaia skated at senior nationals in both 2018 (after her JGPF silver, when she was 14) and in 2019 (after her JGPF gold, when she was 15). So, this was her third national medal. Alexandra Trusova, though, being born in the first half of the next year, could only skate at senior nationals when she was 14, in 2019.

 

[moonvine]

What harm is done by the National champion being the best skater in the country, regardless of age?

I don’t think Alysa is the best skater in the country. I have nothing against her; she skates like a VERY talented 14 year old.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I don’t think Alysa is the best skater in the country. I have nothing against her; she skates like a VERY talented 14 year old.

From the perspective of the current scoring system, she is. I don't think Alysa and Mariah could have skated their programs in any competition under IJS and Mariah come out on top.

 

[mrrice]

I don’t think Alysa is the best skater in the country. I have nothing against her; she skates like a VERY talented 14 year old.

THIS^^^ I think Alysa is the best Jumper in the US but, I'd place her 3rd behind Mariah and Bradie when it comes to skating skills. Her Tech score makes her unbeatable in the US. Mariah skated the program of her life and was still beaten by Alysa.

 

[oatmella]

Alysa won fairly according to the rules on how points are awarded. Gracie’s past popularity, Mariah having a great performance, and some fans’ opinions of what ladies skating should be - don’t seem particularly relevant to why a 14 year old should not be allowed to compete for and win the senior national title.

 

[KatGrace1925]

What harm is done by the National champion being the best skater in the country, regardless of age?

We can't send our number 1 to worlds, and unfortunately with how annoying politicking works that's not necessarily good for the girls we can send as now the international judges don't see either of them as the US number 1 :/

 

[KatGrace1925]

Alysa won fairly according to the rules on how points are awarded. Gracie’s past popularity, Mariah having a great performance, and some fans’ opinions of what ladies skating should be - don’t seem particularly relevant to why a 14 year old should not be allowed to compete for and win the senior national title.

In my opinion her 4Lz should have been called << and her second 3A should have gotten less GOE for being a bit sloppy. I looked at the score sheet and I had a few things that I would personally think should have gotten less according to the rules laid out for awarding points and removing points for those things would easily place her in second. The international judges do not currently favor her either as they placed her behind a girl without any quads or triple axels at the junior grand prix final. Granted she did go for a lot more there with errors but it still was a statement that the international judges weren't really buying into the hype just yet.

 

[katymay]

In my opinion her 4Lz should have been called << and her second 3A should have gotten less GOE for being a bit sloppy. I looked at the score sheet and I had a few things that I would personally think should have gotten less according to the rules laid out for awarding points and removing points for those things would easily place her in second. The international judges do not currently favor her either as they placed her behind a girl without any quads or triple axels at the junior grand prix final. Granted she did go for a lot more there with errors but it still was a statement that the international judges weren't really buying into the hype just yet.

Grotesque national inflation was applied to a large section of the women. Some of the GOE's strained credibility and made the judging almost a farce. I understand giving your own skaters a boost, but I think this year the judging took things to a new level.

 

[oatmella]

Alysa made mistakes at JGPF. She lost by less than 3 points and could have won with fewer errors.

Mariah had some uncalled UR, which also happened in the Grand Prix.

 

[KatGrace1925]

Alysa made mistakes at JGPF. She lost by less than 3 points and could have won with fewer errors.

Mariah had some uncalled UR, which also happened in the Grand Prix.

Alysa's PCS at the Junior Grand Prix final was 60, I don't think she was a whole 8 points higher at nationals, not even near that.

 

[KatGrace1925]

Grotesque national inflation was applied to a large section of the women. Some of the GOE's strained credibility and made the judging almost a farce. I understand giving your own skaters a boost, but I think this year the judging took things to a new level.

Yeah nationals judging is all over the map and definitely was at this competition. I feel like Japanese nationals is the only one where the federation is harsh on their own skaters, every other country applies some nice crazy inflation in hopes of pushing their skaters scores higher internationally by side effect.

 

[Greengemmonster]

Alysa's PCS at the Junior Grand Prix final was 60, I don't think she was a whole 8 points higher at nationals, not even near that.

And they would have had to make her PCS 58 at Nationals for her to lose to Mariah. Her performance at Nationals was much much much better than at JGPF so how would that have been fair.

The 4Lutz was called under.

She didn't get particularly high GOE either on her elements.

I understand that people are bitter a 14 yr old with big tech won but promoting unfair scoring to try and rig it so that she won't win is a whole other level.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

We can't send our number 1 to worlds, and unfortunately with how annoying politicking works that's not necessarily good for the girls we can send as now the international judges don't see either of them as the US number 1 :/

That's true, but I'm not sure that the skaters' reputations are tarnished all that much. After all, Bradie did make the GPF.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

And they would have had to make her PCS 58 at Nationals for her to lose to Mariah. Her performance at Nationals was much much much better than at JGPF so how would that have been fair.

Plus, Mariah's LP PCS was almost 3 points higher than what Alena got at Europeans. Even with Alena's fall, I don't think we would see that gap in international competition.

 

[KatGrace1925]

And they would have had to make her PCS 58 at Nationals for her to lose to Mariah. Her performance at Nationals was much much much better than at JGPF so how would that have been fair.

The 4Lutz was called under.

She didn't get particularly high GOE either on her elements.

I understand that people are bitter a 14 yr old with big tech won but promoting unfair scoring to try and rig it so that she won't win is a whole other level.

No they could have made it 60 and called her 4Lz as << cause it was <<. It isn't unfair to say her PCS could have been 7's if she had won with 7's in the PCS category I wouldn't personally be so upset by her win, then I would say truly she won off tech but her PCS was too high as well. And knowing that 4Lz isn't a 4Lz is also frustrating.

 

[KatGrace1925]

Plus, Mariah's LP PCS was almost 3 points higher than what Alena got at Europeans. Even with Alena's fall, I don't think we would see that gap in international competition.

I would argue Mariah has long deserved better PCS internationally but I can't argue she would get what I feel she deserves internationally. I think if Mariah shows up at worlds then continues to build momentum into next season that we will see her PCS rising because that is what it takes for an older competitor with such performance ability to start to rise.

 

[Greengemmonster]

No they could have made it 60 and called her 4Lz as << cause it was <<. It isn't unfair to say her PCS could have been 7's if she had won with 7's in the PCS category I wouldn't personally be so upset by her win, then I would say truly she won off tech but her PCS was too high as well. And knowing that 4Lz isn't a 4Lz is also frustrating.

And then to be fair they would have had to dock Mariah for the iffy landings and on it goes. Because if we're going to pick on Alysa then the same principles should apply to everyone else too.

Short of actually rigging the system and cheating so that Alysa would lose (or pray that she fall) I don't think there was much more they could have done.

 

[oatmella]

I never noticed so many arguments for Mariah until this Nationals. It’s not like she’s like Carolina Kostner or something. She will need higher BV to be more competitive internationally.

Charlie said that quite a few of Mariah’s jumps in her FS looked like they could have gone 50-50. Some air positions and landings weren’t ideal.