2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

[theharleyquinn]

Champs Camp is primarily for Senior skaters with GP events.

I've seen wording on the website suggest that they encourage junior skaters (and their coaches) that may be considered for junior GPs or Challenger series to attend at least one of the camps offered, which typically included Champs Camp on the list. I just think it helps to be exposed to senior skaters.

 

[frida80]

We have so little information, but I'm curious about the role Champs Camp is playing in all of this. It seems like that programming could use tweaking also.

Here's what I have gleaned from Champs Camp. The skaters that have already been assigned a GP spot plus each of the TBA recipients head to the camp. They display their short and free programs, sometimes omitting difficult elements like jumps, lifts or spins. What they get feedback is if this program is appropriate for the skater, sometimes they are encouraged to switch like Bradie was a few years ago. Since this was in Colorado for years, the altitude made skaters opt out of during full programs with all elements.

The also get workshops on eating healthy, off ice help, I think media like photoshoots, and a few other classes. On the last day they do fun group exercises that involve tons of games like dancing, simple sports, and other fun stuff to foster team building. The end off with a semi formal banquet.

There's probably a few other things but that's the jist of it.

Here are a few video.

Jason 2017: https://youtu.be/MpC1KOh8ums

BTS 2015: https://youtu.be/guMbGzw6LwY

Cute dance they made in 2017: https://youtu.be/e6U4ipi3WNM

Shibsibs 2017 Vblog: https://youtu.be/G37HzPSVAXk

Puppies!: https://youtu.be/0SYqdrr8Dvw



As for the developmental skating camp in June, it's involving about 40+ kids that have been scouted and invited to this camp. Many of them haven't achieve things like medaling st nationals and have merely impressed monitors as some point in the last few years based on their technical development. The JGP competitors will probably go to this camp along with dozens of kids that won't even get on the alternate list.

It's clearly super fun. They work on teams working on jumps, spins and skating skills. They all get tshirts, hang out and just have tons of fun. Each of them also do their programs for feedback. Here's a vblog from Hailey three years ago. Check out the ironic cameo by a 10 year old Alysa.

https://youtu.be/buUGDHj5W8U

If your following with some of the kids on Instagram you can find photos of them at the ISP camp from the last two years. I can't find anything from this year, which could mean they've changed things. But mostly I think they want to keep these camps private.

This is also held at Colorado Springs. Meaning lots of altitude. Many of the kids have competed in either the Broadmoor or the Aerial jump competitor, so their exhausted and in no shape to fully display their programs.

I like these camps because they present a low stress way of getting feedback. However, these are terrible for choosing gets spots on the JGP.

 

[natsulian]

At the high performance camp in Colorado, from the videos and comments I’ve seen, they mostly worked on jumps, spins, and consistency. They did consistency drills, games for team building, and challenges such as 3Lz+3T, 3A, etc... I know Kate attended the camps at Broadmoor and Skate Detroit and she posted videos of her going through her jump layout in the Short and Free several times during the consistency drill. Matthew Neilson also went through his jumps at one of the camps. Thus, this year’s focus seems to be jumps and consistency on said jumps from what I’ve gleaned.

 

[frida80]

At the high performance camp in Colorado, from the videos and comments I’ve seen, they mostly worked on jumps, spins, and consistency. They did consistency drills, games for team building, and challenges such as 3Lz+3T, 3A, etc... I know Kate attended the camps at Broadmoor and Skate Detroit and she posted videos of her going through her jump layout in the Short and Free several times during the consistency drill. Matthew Neilson also went through his jumps at one of the camps. Thus, this year’s focus seems to be jumps and consistency on said jumps from what I’ve gleaned.

No big focus skating skills, like speed, edge work, performance, etc?

 

[el henry]

I am really not understanding why the US should have some sort of public skate-off to the death to decide international assignments? What would that serve?

Now I follow the men much more closely, so my general statements are based more on that. Where I have seen skaters suffer from nerves, it’s because they suffer from nerves. Not because they’re stuck in some cocoon world where they don’t see competition. More competition isn’t going to do diddly squat for them, addressing the root issues, whatever they may be, will.

And thank God Champs camp is not a skate off to the death. From his interviews, Jason did not shine at the 2018 Champs Camp. To the point where he actually said, the panel knows what I can do, and they gave me a pass. And if they hadn’t? The senior men’s comps would have been deprived of that marvelous SP last year because he tanked a summer camp?

No thanks. I don’t want that for ladies, men, pairs or dance:disapp:

 

[frida80]

I am really not understanding why the US should have some sort of public skate-off to the death to decide international assignments? What would that serve?

Now I follow the men much more closely, so my general statements are based more on that. Where I have seen skaters suffer from nerves, it’s because they suffer from nerves. Not because they’re stuck in some cocoon world where they don’t see competition. More competition isn’t going to do diddly squat for them, addressing the root issues, whatever they may be, will.

And thank God Champs camp is not a skate off to the death. From his interviews, Jason did not shine at the 2018 Champs Camp. To the point where he actually said, the panel knows what I can do, and they gave me a pass. And if they hadn’t? The senior men’s comps would have been deprived of that marvelous SP last year because he tanked a summer camp?

No thanks. I don’t want that for ladies, men, pairs or dance:disapp:

By that logic we shouldn’t have nationals. Every as we use nationals as a way to assign skaters to worlds. Yes they make exceptions occasionally, however if you cannot handle a domestic competition for a JGP spot, you don’t deserve one. It’s a privilege for skaters to be assigned to international competitions and represent their country. The least skaters can do is show they’ve ready for it. They’re no reason USFS should tolerate a 12 place finish on the JGP for someone who has a good day at a tiny club competition one day. We put skaters through the ringer to earn a spot at Worlds and the Olympics. I see no reason why we shouldn’t keep that standard.

BTW, it wouldn’t have applied to Jason’s situation. People on the senior GP earn their spots and they can’t be taken away. Champs camp is only to make suggestions about programs, which skaters can ignore like Bradie did with her FS in 2017-2018. A test skate would be for junior and seniors who might be selected for international competitions. It’s hard to know who would be the best in these situations. I think the current system is weak and has lead to crappy results. Since 2015 we’ve only had three ladies medals, two by Vivian Le in 2015 and one by Emmy Ma in 2017.

I’ve watched ladies figure skating very closely from intermidiate to seniors and found the same thing over and over, the ones that compete more and are more challenged are more competitive and have greater success. Alysa herself competed in 8 competitions before nationals. I watched her 3A go from frequent pops and << to clean. I watched. Bradie compete in three club competitions during summer 2017 and finally master her 3Lz+3T, which leads to her incredible consistency and then a spot on the Olympic team.

US novice and junior skaters are not being challenged. Due to wide geography, lack of competitors on the same level, and lack of opportunities for challenging comps, incredibly poor judging, and a very untransparent system of assigning JGP slots has lead to incredibly poor results that are only just starting to change. The bonus system has finally encouraged skaters to focus on jumps. The new Nationals will keep lower ranked skater focused on advancing rather than another national medal.

However, in order to ensure set a true standard for the future, USFS needs to have test skates. The JGP aren’t participation trophies. They’re meant for people who want to fight and win.

Better we start this now rather than endure US publications kvetching about how bad our ladies are at the Olympics.

 

[andromache]

I am inclined to agree that the US needs a more clear, transparent, and rigorous decision-making process for who will get JGP spots. Maybe a test skate in July?

Success at the junior-level means A LOT for success at the senior level, especially in ladies, where junior world champions/medalists can quickly top senior podiums. The JGP matters much more than it used to for gaining momentum at the junior level, making an impact at JW, and setting yourself up for success once you go senior. The competition at JGP events is very intense, and US ladies have a poor track record.

US junior men are doing better, potentially because consistency/momentum matters less for junior men? Overall, the best junior ladies in the world almost always skate clean with level 4 elements. There is no room for error. Whereas, the best junior men tend to make multiple mistakes, and US junior men are able to still stand out and make an impact in a flawed field. US ladies just aren't able to make it in fields where the best skaters are nearly flawless.

 

[macy]

I am really not understanding why the US should have some sort of public skate-off to the death to decide international assignments? What would that serve?

Now I follow the men much more closely, so my general statements are based more on that. Where I have seen skaters suffer from nerves, it’s because they suffer from nerves. Not because they’re stuck in some cocoon world where they don’t see competition. More competition isn’t going to do diddly squat for them, addressing the root issues, whatever they may be, will.

And thank God Champs camp is not a skate off to the death. From his interviews, Jason did not shine at the 2018 Champs Camp. To the point where he actually said, the panel knows what I can do, and they gave me a pass. And if they hadn’t? The senior men’s comps would have been deprived of that marvelous SP last year because he tanked a summer camp?

No thanks. I don’t want that for ladies, men, pairs or dance:disapp:

the real question is why are we not? we see the benefit and purpose this serves russia, that only the top performing and best competitors get spots- and that's how they should be earned. this will increase incentive and competitiveness in skaters, both junior and senior. if we want to catch up to russia, we need to start taking notes.

 

[Wombat1800]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B06PouFHreq/?igshid=1wqynjqyqu9o8
Gracie's 2A+3T is looking good! Speaking of Gracie, do we know if she plans to compete at all before regionals?

 

[frida80]

I am inclined to agree that the US needs a more clear, transparent, and rigorous decision-making process for who will get JGP spots. Maybe a test skate in July?

Success at the junior-level means A LOT for success at the senior level, especially in ladies, where junior world champions/medalists can quickly top senior podiums. The JGP matters much more than it used to for gaining momentum at the junior level, making an impact at JW, and setting yourself up for success once you go senior. The competition at JGP events is very intense, and US ladies have a poor track record.

US junior men are doing better, potentially because consistency/momentum matters less for junior men? Overall, the best junior ladies in the world almost always skate clean with level 4 elements. There is no room for error. Whereas, the best junior men tend to make multiple mistakes, and US junior men are able to still stand out and make an impact in a flawed field. US ladies just aren't able to make it in fields where the best skaters are nearly flawless.

It’s because quads are the great equalizer in men’s. Vincent has a terrible JGP season but won at JW because of his quads. If you can land quads and 3As you can make your own destiny.

With ladies, too many are using the same jumps and the quality, difficulty and consistent has risen so much that there is no way for many ladies to even come close to the podium. It’s not about just triple triples anymore. You have to be better than clean. You have to be absolutely everything right out the gate. USFS doesn’t understand that. Their still playing by an outdated play book. It’s why everyone is running circles around us.

 

[el henry]

Well, if everyone else "running circles" around us means following some of those others' playbooks. Sorry, not on that train Some things are more important than gold medals and landing jumps.

And I do not follow the ladies enough to know if the ones who have more comps perform better, so that I will leave to other folks. If that is true, then there is a point. It is absolutely not the case for the men, be they novice, junior or senior, and that has nothing to do with quads or no quads. Maybe that's why I love them

 

[frida80]

Well, if everyone else "running circles" around us means following some of those others' playbooks. Sorry, not on that train Some things are more important than gold medals and landing jumps.

And I do not follow the ladies enough to know if the ones who have more comps perform better, so that I will leave to other folks. If that is true, then there is a point. It is absolutely not the case for the men, be they novice, junior or senior, and that has nothing to do with quads or no quads. Maybe that's why I love them

Your going to notice it this year. Our junior men are depleted since many aged out and moved up in the last few years. Andrew has a quad, but everyone else barely has 3As. It’s going to be a very rough season for USFS junior men.

But yes, until Nathan landed four quads in his FS at GPF 2016, US men has struggled for any medals. We did earn them at four continents and at GP but it was a one year drought before Nathan got on the podium. His quads made the difference.

Being on Team USA means you are there for results. If that’s not the objective of then ones wearing the jacket, they don’t need deserve it. They should head to cruise ships and do shows instead and not waste USFS time and money.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Are there any competitions happening this weekend? Specifically a competition in which we’ll see the senior ladies competing for the SA host spot?

 

[Ykai]

Are there any competitions happening this weekend? Specifically a competition in which we’ll see the senior ladies competing for the SA host spot?

Cranberry Open, but not sure any senior lady is competing for the SA spot.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Cranberry Open, but not sure any senior lady is competing for the SA spot.

Oh. Well, who are the senior ladies competing?

 

[el henry]

Your going to notice it this year. Our junior men are depleted since many aged out and moved up in the last few years. Andrew has a quad, but everyone else barely has 3As. It’s going to be a very rough season for USFS junior men.

But yes, until Nathan landed four quads in his FS at GPF 2016, US men has struggled for any medals. We did earn them at four continents and at GP but it was a one year drought before Nathan got on the podium. His quads made the difference.

Being on Team USA means you are there for results. If that’s not the objective of then ones wearing the jacket, they don’t need deserve it. They should head to cruise ships and do shows instead and not waste USFS time and money.

I don’t watch and have never watched the junior American men because they win medals, so I’m afraid that won’t make a difference to me (although every medal that my :luv17: Andrew T. wins is of course a plus. But my fandom never ever relies on winning)

And I like comps and cruise ships. I don’t think we will agree on this one, and the men have their own thread anyway, so better off discussing there.topic:

 

[frida80]

Are there any competitions happening this weekend? Specifically a competition in which we’ll see the senior ladies competing for the SA host spot?

The last competition that USFS would've considered was Philly Champs. You have to have the best results and scores at either Broadmoor, Skate Detroit, Glacier Falls, or Philly Champs/internationals. Those competitions have USFS monitors and camps associated with them. All potential SA skaters know this, much like the body of work for the Olympics. So anything that happens after Philly Champs is for the skater's own benefit only.

 

[moonvine]

By that logic we shouldn’t have nationals. Every as we use nationals as a way to assign skaters to worlds. Yes they make exceptions occasionally, however if you cannot handle a domestic competition for a JGP spot, you don’t deserve one. It’s a privilege for skaters to be assigned to international competitions and represent their country. The least skaters can do is show they’ve ready for it. They’re no reason USFS should tolerate a 12 place finish on the JGP for someone who has a good day at a tiny club competition one day. We put skaters through the ringer to earn a spot at Worlds and the Olympics. I see no reason why we shouldn’t keep that standard.

Speaking of the Olympics, why don't we have Olympic trials like almost every other sport? (Are there lots of other sports without Olympic trials? I am not aware of any but I can't possibly follow every Olympic sport.

 

[moonvine]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B06PouFHreq/?igshid=1wqynjqyqu9o8
Gracie's 2A+3T is looking good! Speaking of Gracie, do we know if she plans to compete at all before regionals?

No one knows.

 

[Tavi...]

the real question is why are we not? we see the benefit and purpose this serves russia, that only the top performing and best competitors get spots- and that's how they should be earned. this will increase incentive and competitiveness in skaters, both junior and senior. if we want to catch up to russia, we need to start taking notes.

I don’t think the test skates are magic - if you notice, the Russian men aren’t taking the world by storm. And what’s created the incredible depth in ladies skaters in Russia isn’t something we can replicate here simply by having test skates. The US basically relies on rich parents to fund training. Russia has a state supported system and as a result, a much larger, deeper pool of talent. Competition among girls is fierce every step of the way up, until eventually, if they emerge as among the best, they get invited to the test skates.

ETA @moonvine, I think the issue is that if a competition is called an Olympic Trial, the fed has to cede at least some control to USOC, which USFS won’t do.