2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

[macy]

Being optimistic IF she has her triple lutz triple toe back well with her natural talent and reputation she could be back in the game. The power is huge and to think it doesn't look as big a s before.

we all have to remember doing a jump by itself is one thing, doing it in a program in competition is another beast. gracie knows what it takes to compete at the highest levels in the sport, so if she does decide to compete again, i hope she can channel the same mental state of mind she had before. not to mention it takes A LOT of training, stamina and muscle memory to do a 3+3 in a program on top of everything else.

 

[tothepointe]

we all have to remember doing a jump by itself is one thing, doing it in a program in competition is another beast. gracie knows what it takes to compete at the highest levels in the sport, so if she does decide to compete again, i hope she can channel the same mental state of mind she had before. not to mention it takes A LOT of training, stamina and muscle memory to do a 3+3 in a program on top of everything else.

If you listen closely you'll hear her short program music playing so she's at least doing it through a program runthrough.

 

[SnowWhite]

The objective is to get as many skaters as possible to JGP final so it depends on how many points and placement the skaters earned at their first event. If they do well they get another assignment. Liu will get 2 assignments regardless as National champion, and probably Harrell too.

Not really. Most of these ladies don't have a chance at the JGPF, which is fine, since the JGPF is far from the only point of the JGP series. Skaters sent out get valuable international experience, a chance to get the JW tech scores, exposure in front of the judges and feedback from international panels, etc.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

She may not, and it is her choice and I 100% support her no matter what, but it seems like an enormous amount of time, effort and money to do all this and not compete.

Agreed. I understand her not wanting to commit to any schedule regarding her comeback, but it's obvious that she's been training very hard to get her jumps back. Her combo looked nicely rotated too, so based on that alone she has a leg up on a lot of the American women.

 

[andromache]

She may not, and it is her choice and I 100% support her no matter what, but it seems like an enormous amount of time, effort and money to do all this and not compete.

From that perspective, no matter how good or bad Gracie does in competition, she is at least investing in her own talent, which can pay off when it comes to show opportunities (though these will likely be even better if she's able to put in some decent GP appearances or even a Worlds appearance, since people will love the comeback story).

 

[elliana]

I’m pretty new to skating. Do you think Gracie is at or above the level of Bradie and Mariah?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I’m pretty new to skating. Do you think Gracie is at or above the level of Bradie and Mariah?

Not yet. Both of them are completing competitive programs with all the triples. However, I'm more optimistic now than before today that Gracie could regain her previous form (or close to it).

 

[TA91]

I’m pretty new to skating. Do you think Gracie is at or above the level of Bradie and Mariah?

At her peak, definitely. Gracie still holds the highest short program score for a US lady at 76.43. While all I want is her happiness and that she's returning for the joy of skating, if I were to do some predicting, I would say that if she continues on this upward track she could be a prime contender for the '22 Olympic team.

 

[katymay]

I’m pretty new to skating. Do you think Gracie is at or above the level of Bradie and Mariah?

No.

 

[Mathman]

Welcome, Ellianna, and thanks for posting!

 

[evasorange]

I’m pretty new to skating. Do you think Gracie is at or above the level of Bradie and Mariah?

Not even close. People are being really delusional right now. Mariah and Bradie are at their peaks and conditioned mentally, emotionally and physically to be able to compete at high level events. They don’t have anything to “relearn” like Gracie does. When we last saw her skate a full short program everything about her skating was mess. Jumps spins footwork-everything was so far from what it needs to be to complete at a high level. Also even at her peak Gracie was a poor mental competitor. Mistakes would cause her programs to unravel. Even if she can do one 3-3 now we have no clue how she will actually compete. And honestly after reading all the articles that came out about her last year I’m kind of shocked that people even think it’s a good idea that she’s trying to come back at all. Competitive figure skating nearly ruined her life and women’s skating has only gotten more cutthroat and unrealistic since she last competed in 2017

 

[doublequad]

Gracie's triple triple looks like it did 6 years ago before frank. huge rather than fast and tight. the leg wrap is weird.

 

[Tavi...]

I’m pretty new to skating. Do you think Gracie is at or above the level of Bradie and Mariah?

What do you mean by “at the same level?”

For me the bottom line is that we haven’t seen Gracie compete recently and don’t know how reliable those clips are. So we can’t assess her. Were they taken yesterday or last month? Do they represent what she’s doing on an average day? Does she have the stamina to do a FS with that 3z-3t? We’ll just have to wait and see.

The one thing I will say is that at her peak, Gracie had a much better competitive record than either Mariah or Bradie (ie she placed quite a bit better at Worlds and Olympics); she had fantastic jumps, good flexibility, and great spins, edges, and speed.

Mariah and Bradie both have the advantage of having competed more recently than Gracie, and both have different strengths and weaknesses: Bradie is generally a good competitor with good jumps and spins but is perceived as a bit stiff; Mariah has great musicality and flexibility but struggles with triple triples, under rotation calls, and sometimes edge calls.

Assuming Gracie starts competing again, I’m going to be really interested in seeing how she presents herself on-ice. In the past, she got a lot of grief for being a “plastic princess.” I somehow doubt we’ll see that again.

@evasorange I think you’re making a lot of possibly unwarranted assumptions. Among other things, in January, both Mariah and Bradie lost the National title to a 13 year old girl because they weren’t so great at competing. I have no idea if Gracie will make it back, but your negativity is a bit off putting.

 

[evasorange]

@evasorange I think you’re making a lot of possibly unwarranted assumptions. Among other things, in January, both Mariah and Bradie lost the National title to a 13 year old girl because they weren’t so great at competing. I have no idea if Gracie will make it back, but your negativity is a bit off putting.

We have people in this thread saying “I see three spots for us back!” Because of one video of Gracie landing a 3-3 in practice lmao there’s unwarranted assumptions allll over this thread. And I don’t know if it’s fair to say Mariah and Bradie lost nationals to a 13 year old because they weren’t good at competing...sure they both made mistakes but it didn’t really derail their programs...in my eyes they lost because they were behind in tech. Without the 3 axel Alyssa probably would have come in third at best.

 

[Mrs. P]

I will say that Gracie has made considerable progress in nine months. To go from barely and triples to that is noteworthy. I don’t think it’s out of line to say at her current rate of progress that it may not be too long before she could be at a skill level of the top ladies in the US.

 

[macy]

I’m pretty new to skating. Do you think Gracie is at or above the level of Bradie and Mariah?

currently, we won't know until we see her compete again. her technical ABILITY is above Mariah's just by looking at her lutz toe, but what they are all able to put together in competition is what matters.

 

[Tavi...]

We have people in this thread saying “I see three spots for us back!” Because of one video of Gracie landing a 3-3 in practice lmao there’s unwarranted assumptions allll over this thread. And I don’t know if it’s fair to say Mariah and Bradie lost nationals to a 13 year old because they weren’t good at competing...sure they both made mistakes but it didn’t really derail their programs...in my eyes they lost because they were behind in tech. Without the 3 axel Alyssa probably would have come in third at best.

I mean, you’re entitled to your opinions, just as the super optimists are entitled to theirs. I think they’re both kind of extreme, but the optimists are at least kind.

As to nationals, I totally disagree with your take. I think Bradie and Mariah both lost because they did not compete consistently well over both programs. All you have to do is look at the protocols to see that despite their lesser tech content, either Bradie or Mariah could have won if they had simply skated clean. Both received significantly higher PCS than Alysa in both programs (a total of 13+ points each), as they should have. The errors they made may not have seemed to disruptive to you, but both lost significant points due to falls, <, and negative GOE. With lesser tech content, they simply couldn’t afford those errors they made in a close competition.

 

[evasorange]

I mean, you’re entitled to your opinions, just as the super optimists are entitled to theirs. I think they’re both kind of extreme, but the optimists are at least kind.

As to nationals, I totally disagree with your take. I think Bradie and Mariah both lost because they did not compete consistently well over both programs. All you have to do is look at the protocols to see that despite their lesser tech content, either Bradie or Mariah could have won if they had simply skated clean. Both received significantly higher PCS than Alysa in both programs (a total of 13+ points each), as they should have. The errors they made may not have seemed to disruptive to you, but both lost significant points due to falls, <, and negative GOE. With lesser tech content, they simply couldn’t afford those errors they made in a close competition.

I don’t know how to bold on mobile but your last sentence is the point I was trying to make lol if all three would have done the exact same jump combos even with mistakes Mariah and Bradie would have still came out on top. It didn’t come down to who was the cleanest or best competitor as much as it did to who had the highest tech. I don’t think Mariah or Bradie are why I would call strong competitors as they both regularly make mistakes but tbh that can describe a lot of figure skaters lol. I still think even with them not being the mentally strongest skaters they still have a leg up
On Gracie simply because they have been in the competitive mindset for the past two years and haven’t taken any breaks. It takes a lot to get your mind and body ready for the grueling figure skating competitive season

 

[Tavi...]

I don’t know how to bold on mobile but your last sentence is the point I was trying to make lol if all three would have done the exact same jump combos even with mistakes Mariah and Bradie would have still came out on top. It didn’t come down to who was the cleanest or best competitor as much as it did to who had the highest tech. I don’t think Mariah or Bradie are why I would call strong competitors as they both regularly make mistakes but tbh that can describe a lot of figure skaters lol. I still think even with them not being the mentally strongest skaters they still have a leg up
On Gracie simply because they have been in the competitive mindset for the past two years and haven’t taken any breaks. It takes a lot to get your mind and body ready for the grueling figure skating competitive season

Thanks for explaining. I thought you were saying that neither of them had a chance to beat Alysa bc of her triple axels, but perhaps I misunderstood. I do agree that Mariah and Bradie have the advantage of having competed regularly over the past couple of years and that should Gracie compete again, she faces a lot of challenges. But I also remember that despite her inconsistency in competition, at her peak she competed well enough, often enough, to achieve impressive results. I’m sure that if she’d been more consistent she would have achieved more, but what she did achieve isn’t negligible or meaningless. I’d also say that while what we’ve seen on Instagram isn’t enough to judge her readiness for elite competition, it is enough to show her grit and determination, and should be celebrated regardless of whether she ever competes again. JMO.

 

[bytheriver]

I will say in Gracie's defense, when she was an inconsistent performer she wasn't a complete mess. She would mess up 1 or 2 jumps in a long program, but she wouldn't UR her jumps on a regular basis and although her performance quality was sometimes missing, she had speed and power in spades. If she did reach her previous level of skating, she could be a contender at Nationals.

I don't want to put the cart before the horse with Gracie's comeback. She may not even compete again at the highest level, and that's okay. Just saying that I don't think she's out of the game without a 3A or a quad - none of the girls competing with them today come close to the speed, power, and skating skills that Gracie had and still has. Skating before or after them, that would show through. And based on how judges have given out points to Gracie (and Kaetlyn Osmond) in the past, I think that is the direction they want the sport to go in, regardless of how impressive some girls' tech is. They just have to hit it.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox. I hope Gracie is happy - she is still the most compelling American lady to me.