2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

[concorde]

It’s obvious that Alysa needs to work on speed- I’m sure her team is aware of this. I think this first season on the Junior GP will be a really good growth experience for her- she seems to thrive on a challenge. I think she should be confident in the work she’s done technically and use that to fuel developing her skating skills and power. It will be good for her to skate among the best of the best. She is incredibly gifted but the advantage the Russian and Japanese have is that they have a multitude of young and gifted skaters who push each other. Alysa is kind of her own category among US ladies.

Also- I admire Gracie so much for what she has been doing. After the embarrassment of Rostelecom she could have given up but she kept working. To me that is just as impressive as a quad.

Here is the glitch. When you pick up speed, jumps are much harder to control.

I think much of Alysa's consistency is due to her size and lack of speed. When either of those changes, the consistency will go down. Her team is smart (at least in the short term) to use those to their advantage.

I occassionally see posters comment that Alysa can do the big jumps from a standstill. I would be much more impressed if she could do them with a speedy approach.

fyi. Lindsay Thorngreen is another slow skater who methodically sets up each jump. Yes she hits about every jump (and not too many can do that so that is a HUGE positive) but it does not make for an exciting program, at least in my opinion.

 

[natsulian]

Happy birthday to US Ladies Novice Champion Calista Choi. She made her Junior Grand Prix debut in Courchevel and has since become a fan favorite.

Let us appreciate her gorgeous 3Lz:
https://twitter.com/Natsu_Lian_/status/1167444278718685185?s=20

 

[Jammers]

Here is the glitch. When you pick up speed, jumps are much harder to control.

I think much of Alysa's consistency is due to her size and lack of speed. When either of those changes, the consistency will go down. Her team is smart (at least in the short term) to use those to their advantage.

I occassionally see posters comment that Alysa can do the big jumps from a standstill. I would be much more impressed if she could do them with a speedy approach.

fyi. Lindsay Thorngreen is another slow skater who methodically sets up each jump. Yes she hits about every jump (and not too many can do that so that is a HUGE positive) but it does not make for an exciting program, at least in my opinion.

That's what made Yuna so great and Kaetlyn Osmond and Gracie in her prime those 3 ladies flew across the ice and could land their jumps and they were huge too. Much more impressive then a slow skater who might land them more consistently. Someone like Samantha Cesario rarely ever fell and was a consistent jumper but her slowness in her basic overall skating meant that a nearly clean program from her still couldn't beat a mistake ridden program from Gracie.

 

[concorde]

That's what made Yuna so great and Kaetlyn Osmond and Gracie in her prime those 3 ladies flew across the ice and could land their jumps and they were huge too. Much more impressive then a slow skater who might land them more consistently. Someone like Samantha Cesario rarely ever fell and was a consistent jumper but her slowness in her basic overall skating meant that a nearly clean program from her still couldn't beat a mistake ridden program from Gracie.

Completely agree.

The other issue is that if a skater is slow, increasing speed is a herculean task.

 

[andromache]

That's what made Yuna so great and Kaetlyn Osmond and Gracie in her prime those 3 ladies flew across the ice and could land their jumps and they were huge too. Much more impressive then a slow skater who might land them more consistently. Someone like Samantha Cesario rarely ever fell and was a consistent jumper but her slowness in her basic overall skating meant that a nearly clean program from her still couldn't beat a mistake ridden program from Gracie.

Sam Casario was also a chronic underrotator, from what I recall.

Speed with make you lose some control over your jumps, but it seems to help with creating bigger and more impressive jumps, right? Right now, Alysa's jumps are pretty small, and she's not going to be able to rotate them that quickly forever. If she increases her speed, it would make sense (to me, someone with no expertise) if her jumps got bigger as a result of the increase in speed. It seems like something she should work toward to give her jumps some longevity.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Alysa's SP practice
https://youtu.be/UI2WawagP34

 

[concorde]

Sam Casario was also a chronic underrotator, from what I recall.

Speed with make you lose some control over your jumps, but it seems to help with creating bigger and more impressive jumps, right? Right now, Alysa's jumps are pretty small, and she's not going to be able to rotate them that quickly forever. If she increases her speed, it would make sense (to me, someone with no expertise) if her jumps got bigger as a result of the increase in speed. It seems like something she should work toward to give her jumps some longevity.

Hard to know what the right answer is.

Think driving a car through an obstacle course. Going at 10-15 mph is it pretty "easy." Take that same course at 60 mph and it is tricky and much harder to control and the slightest miscalculation spells disaster.

When you add speed to a jump, those jumps become exponentially hard to control. You see a lot of kids just learning their jumps telegraphing into them - some even come to a standstill before they jump. But you don't see alot of skaters with those big beautiful jumps.

 

[Sugar Coated]

In the current system, what incentive is there for increasing speed if it means making jumps less stable? I understand aesthetically its not as impressive but I guess I'm confused as to what the incentive would be to significantly work on this. I assume the points she gains from being able to consistently hit two 3As and a 4L is way more than any points she would gain from increased speed.

It also seems like her long program may be the layout they are planning for the next 3 years. I get the sense that its particularly sparse at the moment because they are building muscle memory for the jumps. Once this is second nature they will continue to build on it and increase transitions and artistry over the next two years. They'll likely pick her music next year (if they haven't already) for the olympic season and practice this during her final junior season but possibly use the same basic jump layout. I really get the impression that her coach is playing the long game.

 

[bytheriver]

In the current system, what incentive is there for increasing speed if it means making jumps less stable? I understand aesthetically its not as impressive but I guess I'm confused as to what the incentive would be to significantly work on this. I assume the points she gains from being able to consistently hit two 3As and a 4L is way more than any points she would gain from increased speed.

It also seems like her long program may be the layout they are planning for the next 3 years. I get the sense that its particularly sparse at the moment because they are building muscle memory for the jumps. Once this is second nature they will continue to build on it and increase transitions and artistry over the next two years. They'll likely pick her music next year (if they haven't already) for the olympic season and practice this during her final junior season but possibly use the same basic jump layout. I really get the impression that her coach is playing the long game.

The incentive is that you don’t have to worry as much about losing your jumps once you grow. If you don’t have a lot of speed, once your rotation slows down with growth (height and weight), you become a chronic underrotater. We’be seen this with a lot of American ladies once they grow up a bit, but it’s more concerning with Alysa as she is so small and the focus seems to be more on drilling jump consistency regardless of speed, which won’t mean much when she isn’t a 4’7” 14 year old girl. She’s likely to grow before the Olympics and it would seem like her coach was playing the long-game if they showed more signs of prepping for that, rather than drilling the big jumps at whatever speed works today.

JMO of course. I’ve seen it happen countless times in gymnastics that young girls can throw the big skills when they’re small but they grow 10 pounds and 2 inches and everything changes. And with the amount of pressure they are putting on Alysa, I think it needs to be said that if she starts struggling as we get closer to the Olympics, it’s not because she’s a “head case.” It could just be an inevitability.

 

[Edwin]

Nice Ted Barton interview with Alysa Liu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icnlfKO177E

Media training shows, but Alysa is still very pure and natural and talks well.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

The other issue is that if a skater is slow, increasing speed is a herculean task.

My worry is that Alyssa's career will mirror Caroline Zhang's, who lost her jumps but then, once she regained them, didn't get top marks because the rest of her skating didn't improve as much as it needed to. Alyssa is still so young though that she can improve greatly in whatever area she needs to.

 

[gkelly]

In the current system, what incentive is there for increasing speed if it means making jumps less stable? I understand aesthetically its not as impressive but I guess I'm confused as to what the incentive would be to significantly work on this.

In the scoring system, the incentive would be higher GOE on the jumps and higher PCS, especially Skating Skills, for skating with speed through out the program -- and we all know that the SS score influences the rest of the program components.

But if speed makes the difference between landing the jump or falling, then the increased GOEs and PCS might not make up for the loss of points for falling.

 

[mrrice]

Alysa's SP practice
https://youtu.be/UI2WawagP34

Nice!!! She really looks great. I guess I need to see her in person as she doesn't seem that slow to me. Especially for a junior.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

In the scoring system, the incentive would be higher GOE on the jumps and higher PCS, especially Skating Skills, for skating with speed through out the program -- and we all know that the SS score influences the rest of the program components.

But if speed makes the difference between landing the jump or falling, then the increased GOEs and PCS might not make up for the loss of points for falling.

I agree there has to be a balance in those considerations. If Alyssa's goal is to be a World or Olympic champion, she has to take that risk. Even if she rotates the 3A and 4Lz (and it's not certain those will be fully credited regularly), I don't think it will be enough without the rest of her skating getting much stronger.

 

[natsulian]

Lights, camera, action. Gracie Gold seems to be filming something related to her skating. Also, check out that stellar 3Lz. She seems VERY fit and is skating like she's in her prime again. Best of luck to the golden girl.

Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/B1y647An4qF/?igshid=clei575ww93z

 

[macy]

Lights, camera, action. Gracie Gold seems to be filming something related to her skating. Also, check out that stellar 3Lz. She seems VERY fit and is skating like she's in her prime again. Best of luck to the golden girl.

Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/B1y647An4qF/?igshid=clei575ww93z

ohhhh yessssssss!!! that lutz looked EASY

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Lights, camera, action. Gracie Gold seems to be filming something related to her skating. Also, check out that stellar 3Lz. She seems VERY fit and is skating like she's in her prime again. Best of luck to the golden girl.

Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/B1y647An4qF/?igshid=clei575ww93z

Soooo good. Gracie is working so hard. Her jumps look fantastic

 

[mrrice]

Lights, camera, action. Gracie Gold seems to be filming something related to her skating. Also, check out that stellar 3Lz. She seems VERY fit and is skating like she's in her prime again. Best of luck to the golden girl.

Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/B1y647An4qF/?igshid=clei575ww93z

That Lutz was Gorgeous!!!

 

[andromache]

In the scoring system, the incentive would be higher GOE on the jumps and higher PCS, especially Skating Skills, for skating with speed through out the program -- and we all know that the SS score influences the rest of the program components.

But if speed makes the difference between landing the jump or falling, then the increased GOEs and PCS might not make up for the loss of points for falling.

We'll see....I'm not convinced she won't receive high GOE and PCS due to the politics....but we'll have a better idea of how she is scored after today. Very interested to see how she is scored on skating skills versus Tarakanova, who has incredible speed and power.

 

[zounger]

We'll see....I'm not convinced she won't receive high GOE and PCS due to the politics....but we'll have a better idea of how she is scored after today. Very interested to see how she is scored on skating skills versus Tarakanova, who has incredible speed and power.

My guess not more than 0.3 difference.