2020-21 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Oh well, then that's your assessment. Lots of teams struggle with sbs jumps, not just U.S. teams. Jess and Brian get tight in their jumps out of nerves, IMO. Not lack of ability.

Jumping solo is hard enough. Try jumping in unison with someone else and see how far you would get. I doubt very far, even doing single revolutions. LOL. SBS jumps is probably the hardest skill to master consistently in pairs figure skating. While the highly touted Russian pairs are generally consistent, they are not totally picture perfect every time on their jumps, though by rep, it may seem to be so. One of the best Russian teams aesthetically, Panfilova/ Rylov, have weak jumps (mainly her). And that will definitely hold them back.

I disagree about the lack of ability statement - the reality is that you need to be able to turn it out in competition and their consistent inconsistency to do the SBS elements holds them back. There's just something so tentative about them. At least with Chris, you knew even if he wasn't able to land it, he would go for it.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I disagree about the lack of ability statement - the reality is that you need to be able to turn it out in competition and their consistent inconsistency to do the SBS elements holds them back. There's just something so tentative about them. At least with Chris, you knew even if he wasn't able to land it, he would go for it.

The point is that C/J do have the ability to jump, and to land their jumps in unison. They have done so successfully on numerous occasions, regardless of how demanding and short-sighted some fans are in viewing C/J.

Sure it can be frustrating watching them falter. But to think that means they aren't trying is a misperception. The mental factor involved in performing difficult maneuvers under pressure consistently is a hurdle for many athletes. Regardless of dismissive views, C/J have the ability to land jumps, and they have both done so in unison under pressure.

The caveat of course is that not often are they both in control of their nerves at the same time when going into sbs jumps. That is truly their main drawback. While C/J also need to improve timing, technique and distance on their throws, they are absolutely one of the best teams in the world on everything else. But throw rocks and side-eye them as you see fit.

Sure, they are often tentative going into sbs jumps. That IMO is due to nerves and the need to build confidence. Obviously, jumps are not their strong suit, but it doesn't mean they lack jumping ability. It's the difficult element factor and having to match your partner's timing, while managing your own. Like I said, try it sometimes and see how good you are at it.

BTW, every time they go out on competition ice, they are going for it, no matter who thinks so or not.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

As far as Dave and USFS, there was a contretemps between them on several occasions. I heard that U.S. skaters were told to avoid giving TSL anymore interviews. Ultimately, it didn't hurt TSL, but Dave had to bust his butt for awhile keeping the show going, especially after Jen's departure. Dave has made significant inroads in continuing to land top people in the community for interviews (with the help of Bezic, et al). But clearly Dave hasn't interviewed on TSL any currently competing U.S. skaters for awhile now (excepting Nyman's foolish stint on the private chat version).

Maybe that ban will change at some point. Dave and TSL aren't going away anytime soon. And of course when we reference U.S. figure skating, it's important to remember it's an organization made up of different individuals who don't always think in lockstep.

Thanks for sharing your interesting views regarding the pairs news @SkateTM0102. I hadn't heard that Katie and Nate are dating off-ice. If so, that's sweet. They are definitely cute together, with a palpable vibe.

Yep, Kate Finster needs a taller partner. She may even still be growing. And yes, she is young and would be better off with someone closer to her age who has long-term motivation.

Probably either Megan W or Haven would work for Danny. You may be right about Tarah and B Nagy. Their Instagram photo together, seemingly having a great time on a seaside vacay, is certainly giving off sparks.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Partly, the key to success of K/F's partnership is surely the fact that Alexa, Chris and Brandon are long-time friends. Since they all knew and liked each other, that surely made the new pairing an easy adjustment. They were able to get to work even prior to rinks reopening, by working off-ice. Brandon even lived with the Knierims for a short time when he first moved to California.

Plus, the Meno/Sand/ Binder coaching crew works so well together. And the state-of-the-art rink is another bonus. For Brandon, it must seem like Nirvana. Actually, for Alexa as well. She came back to become champion again with her hubby, so that goal was achieved. And then when Chris called quits on competing, she she was able to land a great new partner in record time.

To be perfectly honest, Alexa and Brandon are athletically a better paired team together than Alexa was with Chris. While Haven & Brandon were well-paired physically, Haven's knee injury hampered her jumping ability. Alexa seems to have more range athletically, even had Haven not suffered that serious injury. Granted, kudos to Haven because it required so much courage and determination to overcome that daunting setback.

 

[skylark]

I feel like this is the most likely scenario as well. I have no idea who Danny will end up with, I do wonder if he ever tried out with Alexa or even discussed the scenario. I think Brandon and Alexa are a great match and actually said that They should pair up to someone at Nationals in January. However, now that they have had success, I would imagine there are people that are reconsidering staying together just for longevity’s sake. While I do think there are pairs where a switch could be beneficial, I don’t think many of them will have the quick success of Alexa and Brandon. I have been pretty amazed with them and think that this is not at all typical of pairs, even when both partners are good pairs skaters. I actually think they could end up being the pair that makes US pairs competitive internationally again.
As far as partner speculation, I don’t think Katie and Nate would split, I think they are in an off-ice relationship as well. I would bet Tarah will skate with Balaz. Danny, my first reaction was Haven, especially if he only wants to stay around for 2022 as he’s older. But I really like Megan Weissenberg from the Instagram clips I’ve seen. If Danny wanted to go past 2022 she could be a good possibility. And if not Danny, I hope Megan finds a partner! I can’t really think of anyone else for him at this point? Kate Finster is I think probably too tall and she’s so young, Danny is 30ish right? It will be an interesting few weeks.
As far as TSL, he does get a lot of insider info from MANY different sources. I dont think hes as much on USFS' badside as others think. Also, we have to remember that not only is skating a super small community, these skaters are not on private ice. Sometimes try outs can be private by having them late at night or something but not always. Often, others that see the pair skate are willing to tell others the info, so it might not be coming from the skaters or their team but from others at the rink. For a year with very little skating, especially in the US, there has been quite a bit of skating news to keep us occupied!

I just looked Megan up, and she's about Tarah's height, which would probably make a transition easier. On the other hand, other factors might be much more important. I hadn't heard Katie and Nate were in an off-ice relationship, interesting. And yes, Danny will be 30 in February, while Kate Finster is about to turn 17 I think.

 

[skylark]

Probably either Megan W or Haven would work for Danny. You may be right about Tarah and B Nagy. Their Instagram photo together, seemingly having a great time on a seaside vacay, is certainly giving off sparks.

An understatement! Tarah and Balazs look so happy together. It will be interesting to see if they form a partnership and if so, how that goes. Coincidentally and accidentally, I watched 1994 Olympics fluff of Meno and Sand just a few days ago, when they were asked about (dumping, to put it rudely) their respective 1992 olympic partners to skate with each other. They were serious and said it was hard to make that decision because they weren't just affecting their own futures, but they ultimately felt they had to make the best decision for themselves. They spinned it that their conversations revealed that their ultimate goals were compatible ... whereas the commentators always made the point that Jenni and Todd fell in love in 1992. It would be very hard to argue that it wasn't the best decision for them, or even for US Pairs ... particularly as they've entered a whole second wave of prominence in the US pairs field now. I've always felt bad for their former partners of course.

On the subject of jumps, I recently heard a famous, longtime Russian coach say that for pairs, the SBS jumps were always the most difficult element. It's not just the Americans. And I've heard single skater commentators enumerate the things that make jumping by yourself so hard, and then say they can't imagine doing all that calculating and preparing so close to another person. On top of that, do it in unison. Just amazing.

This is such an interesting couple of pages in the thread! but I will have to toddle off soon

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Ha ha, indeed. I've been away from the board for awhile and bingeing now as I have a few challenging days ahead facing some minor surgery, which is still unnerving regardless. So this is my escape for a bit.

And I do love pairs. I checked back in to see whether there were updates on Tarah & Danny. It's good to see that the gossip was finally formally confirmed publicly (with a correction re Danny's plans).

I do have thoughts on Jenni/Todd pairing fom back-in-the-day, which I'll share shortly.

 

[happycamper2554]

All is not a piece-of-cake in figure skating, and never has been. It behooves us fans to be more reflective and less demanding and dismissive, IMO.

Well i expect excellence. I have no idea why you would demand anything less from any athlete. This is what I would expect at any sport at the highest level.

 

[skylark]

Ha ha, indeed. I've been away from the board for awhile and bingeing now as I have a few challenging days ahead facing some minor surgery, which is still unnerving regardless. So this is my escape for a bit.

And I do love pairs. I checked back in to see whether there were updates on Tarah & Danny. It's good to see that the gossip was finally formally confirmed publicly (with a correction re Danny's plans).

I do have thoughts on Jenni/Todd pairing fom back-in-the-day, which I'll share shortly.

A pastor I know says that minor surgery is when it happens someone else. On oneself, surgery is always major. Best of luck and swift recovery. Looking forward to your Jenni/Todd thoughts.

 

[NanaPat]

On the subject of jumps, I recently heard a famous, longtime Russian coach say that for pairs, the SBS jumps were always the most difficult element. It's not just the Americans.

I think I know of one exception to that. I believe Meghan Duhamel said that for her/them the twist is the most difficult element, not the SBS jumps. There may be a few other (rare) cases like theirs, but I do agree with it if you make it "almost always" instead of "always".

I recall a 4CC where both Peng and Lubov managed to do their SBS jumps and everyone on the board was ecstatic!

 

[el henry]

I need to show some love to my "homie" Nate Bartholomay. I'm not seeing where he comes across as that "stolid" although my perception could be clouded by fandom. He has had lively partners over the years, Felicia, Deanna and now Katie (yes, I know that's not all of them. just examples) and he has held his own. And I have found, although I have only seen him once in person, that in a rink he projects mighty well. I look forward to what he and Katie can do in a more normal year.

Also, as a helpful hint, Goldenskate guidelines discourage gossip of the "I heard" variety. Tarah has been pretty open with photos about her relationship on IG, as far as I can tell, but I've seen zip on Katie and Nate, so unless we know, we don't know.

 

[skylark]

I think I know of one exception to that. I believe Meghan Duhamel said that for her/them the twist is the most difficult element, not the SBS jumps. There may be a few other (rare) cases like theirs, but I do agree with it if you make it "almost always" instead of "always".

I recall a 4CC where both Peng and Lubov managed to do their SBS jumps and everyone on the board was ecstatic!

I would change it to say "almost always" for myself, but I remember that the coach that I was quoting said "always", with a big, beautiful smile. But yes, I'm sure it was more figure of speech than exactly accurate ... but still virtually true. The silly thing is that I can't remember who the coach was. Oh, well.

I've heard Meagan D. talk (to TSL) about her/their twist and why it was so hard for them. It was very interesting. And, even when I was writing the above post, I was thinking about Meagan/Eric and how SBS jumps were a stand-out element for them. And there are a few other pairs like that: the US pair I'm thinking of is Lu/Mitrofanov. Their jumps, esp 3-jump combos, are really stunning. Also, Cain/Leduc stood out especially when they first paired up, as SBS jumps being a stand-out element for them. I've seen all 3 teams, D/R, L/M and C-G/L in person, and I've always said how thrilling it is to see a pair do really great SBS jumps well and in unison.

At US Nationals 2016, I was present for SP and FS pairs. In both programs, Tarah and Danny went last, and both times they were the ONLY pair who landed all their jumps. So there you go.

 

[ice coverage]

... Also, as a helpful hint, Goldenskate guidelines discourage gossip of the "I heard" variety. ...

I am a staunch supporter of the GS guidelines discouraging gossip.
And I have "heard" nothing.

... Tarah has been pretty open with photos about her relationship on IG, as far as I can tell, but I've seen zip on Katie and Nate, so unless we know, we don't know.

I do not claim to "know" one way or the other about the nature of Katie and Nate's off-ice relationship.
That said, I have seen more than "zip" on IG that could be taken as openness in showing whatever their off-ice relationship is.

 

[SkateTM0102]

I need to show some love to my "homie" Nate Bartholomay. I'm not seeing where he comes across as that "stolid" although my perception could be clouded by fandom. He has had lively partners over the years, Felicia, Deanna and now Katie (yes, I know that's not all of them. just examples) and he has held his own. And I have found, although I have only seen him once in person, that in a rink he projects mighty well. I look forward to what he and Katie can do in a more normal year.

Also, as a helpful hint, Goldenskate guidelines discourage gossip of the "I heard" variety. Tarah has been pretty open with photos about her relationship on IG, as far as I can tell, but I've seen zip on Katie and Nate, so unless we know, we don't know.

I went ahead and deleted my posts. I don’t want to break any rules or spread unfounded gossip! So sorry!

 

[el henry]

I went ahead and deleted my posts. I don’t want to break any rules or spread unfounded gossip! So sorry!

@SkateTM0102 please don’t think I wanted you to delete your posts; I was just noting for future reference. i like learning about my fav skaters as much as the next person, and different forums are different. Your posts were very informative, and if you think one point is better left out, you can always just edit it out.

hopefully when competitions return to normal, we will have much more seating to talk about!

 

[skylark]

I went ahead and deleted my posts. I don’t want to break any rules or spread unfounded gossip! So sorry!

I want to encourage you to post again, especially about pairs, which are my favorite discipline, and especially about US Pairs.

I'm very sorry you deleted your posts. There are only a few people who seem to want to have diverging, speculating conversations about pairs. So many of the posts end up being arguments with one another about opinions and evaluations, trying to prove their own view. Or "just the facts," which are important notifications and I'm glad for them. But I like a balance of facts with truths, even personal truths, and a reasonable, polite way of talking about the in-betweens in figure skating, the places where personal taste and opinions can diverge but not necessarily devolve into arguments. Rather than just the cut-and-drieds, the provable by link or lack thereof, etc. I felt that your posts contributed to a broader spectrum of the conversation and held promise for enriching the conversations.

And I want to say what I should have said before: Welcome! Post long, and post often! (Sorry about that. I was way past any reasonable bedtime!)

I know how it feels to be reprimanded, and it's not fun. Just ... please don't retreat completely Try us again.

 

[TontoK]

I want to encourage you to post again, especially about pairs, which are my favorite discipline, and especially about US Pairs.

I'm very sorry you deleted your posts. There are only a few people who seem to want to have diverging, speculating conversations about pairs. So many of the posts end up being arguments with one another about opinions and evaluations, trying to prove their own view. Or "just the facts," which are important notifications and I'm glad for them. But I like a balance of facts with truths, even personal truths, and a reasonable, polite way of talking about the in-betweens in figure skating, the places where personal taste and opinions can diverge but not necessarily devolve into arguments. Rather than just the cut-and-drieds, the provable by link or lack thereof, etc. I felt that your posts contributed to a broader spectrum of the conversation and held promise for enriching the conversations.

And I want to say what I should have said before: Welcome! Post long, and post often! (Sorry about that. I was way past any reasonable bedtime!)

I know how it feels to be reprimanded, and it's not fun. Just ... please don't retreat completely Try us again.

I'm unaware of the content that @SkateTM0102 shared then deleted... so I'll just comment as though I'm completely in the loop...

I think there is a diffence between "Peeping Tom" speculation where a person might pointlessly comment on an athlete's personal/romantic life... and a comment like "Judging by his instagram posts, he appears to have a friendship/affinity with so-and-so, and they're both looking for a pairs partner."

One of those is an unwarranted intrusion, and the other (even if it turns out to be incorrect) is a sport-related supposition about what the future may hold for an athlete's career. For certain, we shouldn't encourage evidence-free gossipy splatter, but predicting what might come next in our sport is part of the fun.

 

[ice coverage]

Anyway, the Nats field now will be down to eleven Senior Pairs.
(Jessica/Brian and Ashley/Timothy have byes from 2020 Nats.
Alexa/Brandon; Audrey/Misha; Olivia/Mervin; Katie/Nate have byes from ISP Points Challenge.
Five pairs will advance from Championship Series.)

Tarah and Danny had a bye (from 2020 Nats), so the end of their partnership does not open up a spot.

Update:

As of Nov 16, USFS originally had said that five senior pairs from virtual Championship Series would advance to Nats.
Per the top of page 3 of the document at the link below:

https://cdn1.sportngin.com/attachments/document/a847-2300091/2021_U.S._Championship_Series_-_Virtual_11.17.pdf

But today Hersh tweeted that six senior pairs from virtual Championship Series will advance to Nats:

https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/1339618559975170049

ETA (on Dec 24):

The change to advancement for six pairs was made on Dec 16, per the revision dated Dec 21 of the USFS document:

https://cdn1.sportngin.com/attachments/document/a847-2300091/2021_U.S._Championship_Series_-_Virtual.pdf

So ... the total field will be twelve senior pairs after all.

AFAIK, normal USFS policy is that an unused bye does not open up a spot -- but of course I get that this season is not normal in multiple ways. It's nice that USFS is giving a sixth pair a chance to advance.

(Results and videos of virtual Championship Series are coming next week.)

---

ETA:

USFS has a new article today (Dec 17) re the three friends Misha Mitrofanov, Jimmy Ma, and Krasnozhon.

Krasnozhon, Ma and Mitrofanov: Cracking Jokes and Pulling Pranks in Boston - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

The friendship of Alex Krasnozhon, Jimmy Ma and Misha Mitrofanov goes well beyond skating. Their strong friendship off the ice strengthens their performances on the ice and pushes them to become better skaters.

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

(I am 99.99% sure that the article did not go live until today, although the dateline says Dec 15. This kind of incongruity is not uncommon with Fan Zone articles.)​

 

[skylark]

I really enjoyed the article on Pairs Guy Mitrofanov, Ma and Krasnozhan. A very fun read. Thanks for posting! Particularly interesting: who does the cooking and who cleans.

 

[haribobo]

SENIOR PAIRS RESULTS from Sectionals/Series

Chan/Howe 105.94
Lockley/Prochnow 98.91
McIsaac/Sadusky 89.41
Hanns/Garbutt 85.17
Deardorff/Johnson 80.76
Burden/Rounis 76.88