2020-21 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating | Page 16 | Golden Skate

2020-21 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating

I doubt the wonderful fp video of C/J was ever posted. Everyone was looking for it. A lot of people feel music rights was the issue. If that's the case, it should have been mentioned. I don't think it is the case because C/J's performances to this music throughout the season at other comps are posted on YouTube. It's possible that NBC decided last year to only post the gold medal performances, which was short-sighted in the case of C/J. That's why I feel it ironic that C/J's fp was posted this year when they had some problems, and actually placed 3rd in the fp.

I think C/J's fp this season is lovely, but they've yet to skate it with full confidence. Not having the benefit of a normal season has been a hindrance for them, and of course for many athletes. Last season, they had the benefit of working out jump issues in competition which seemed to make them feel more relaxed and confident at 2020 Nationals.

BTW, I don't question C/J 'not being treated as equals at their rink.' I was curious to know whether C/J were also working with Raf (and apparently Jess has been working with 'one of his assistants' -- no specific mention was made of Brian). Raf had been brought in to work with the Knierims initially, so the work continued apparently when Brandon partnered with Alexa. C/J obviously have more issues landing jumps consistently than K/F, so I'm glad to hear some additional assistance is being given at least to Jess. I also wonder a bit how these jump challenges were previously being addressed, since the problems haven't magically just happened.

My curiosity doesn't mean I'm questioning Meno/Sand's judgment or coaching or care for their athletes. We heard from C/J and the Knierims at last season's press conferences just how much Meno/Sand care about their athletes as people first. The situation I was questioning mostly is the outside chatter/ media hype and how difficult that can be to deal with for all involved. The media will tear athletes down as quickly as it builds them up.

There's also the tendency by U.S. fed, which has clearly happened in many instances, whereby they push one athlete over another, or allow the feeding into faux rivalry notions (as with Evan vs Johnny back-in-the-day -- those guys respected each other but the media made it into something it wasn't with U.S. fed sitting back and allowing the depiction). Water under the bridge, but it happened. I don't see anything like that here at all. C/J and K/F are friends and supporters of each other as far as I can see. I don't see that changing. But the media's intentions can be something to watch out for.

The over building up of Mariah Bell this season, particularly at Skate America actually seemed to make Bradie fight harder. Mariah being set up to repeat her performance from last year in order to be rewarded this year was seemingly a huge burden on her shoulders. The pushing of coaches, i.e., Tammy Gambill to work with Tom Z, and then asking Peterson to work with Sappenfield, which he refused that suggestion, is stuff that seems to be overstepping sometimes in the wrong direction, no matter the good intentions.

In the case of K/F, my feeling is they should be allowed to grow and do their thing without unnecessary hype. They need encouragement and support, not hype. C/J and K/F are uber-talented and can push each other and the entire discipline to great heights. So there's no need for U.S. fed or the media to create a 'super' narrative around one team. There's no need to place all the eggs in one basket. The best thing to do is to find ways to nurture all the athletes and give the top teams everything they need to excel.
 
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On the Peacock broadcast of the pairs fp, I could tell that Alexa/Brandon are grounded, so I won't worry about the media chatter affecting them adversely. They were sitting there telling the viewers how hard it was getting through their program and that they had to fight for everything. They even said that Chris is not going to be happy with their death spiral. LOL! So much for J&T 'being brought to tears' while watching their fp! :LOL:

Right after K/F mentioned that about their death spiral, the scores came up. And I wish they hadn't been wearing face masks. On Peacock, you can hear Brandon say, "What???" They look at each other and start laughing. I understand why. Brandon then whispered to Alexa, "Don't let me get started." I'm not sure what Brandon meant exactly, but it could be about scoring inflation particularly in light of the 'scoring dumping' he and Haven received last season.

Yes, Haven/Brandon didn't skate very well at 2020 Nats, but they were somewhat harshly judged too. So Alexa & Brandon have both experienced roller coaster careers. From the depths to the heights can be dizzying, and so they need to stay on an even keel. They get what's happening, and they aren't going to let it affect their focus toward working hard to fulfill their own dreams. I'm sure they're happy to be appreciated, but they know 150+ isn't realistic at this point. They should score well internationally, of course, but they know that they still have things to continue working on.
 
In response to a reference to U.S. pairs not having a 'strong team,' that was mentioned in the U.S. ladies thread under 2021 U.S. Nationals, these are my thoughts:

U.S. pairs do currently have at least two strong teams who will hopefully continue the arduous process of helping to bring U.S. pairs better respect and medal success in the international realm. In terms of strong legacy, it is two U.S. pairs teams who respectively performed the first throw 3-axel (2006), and the first throw quad salchow (2007). Those feats are nothing to sneeze at. In addition, a U.S. pairs team was the first North American team after WWII to break through the former European dominance in pairs to win a gold medal at Worlds (1950).

U.S. pairs have not been on the Worlds podium since 2002, which is going on 17 years, so just 7 years longer at this point than the U.S. ladies drought. Of course, it's now been since 2016, another 4+ years and counting for U.S. ladies being off Worlds and Olympics podiums. During the 1960s and 1970s, Canadian pairs were off the Worlds and Olympics podiums for 19 years (until Barb Underhill & Paul Martini broke that drought in the early 1980s). During some of those 19 years, U.S. pairs were winning silver and bronze medals at Worlds and Olympics. So things go in cycles, which is why accessing historic perspective is beneficial to a deeper understanding.

U.S. pairs now have at least two strong, competitive teams. Just like for U.S. ladies, it is an uphill battle to change derogatory perceptions and to challenge the international political scoring with consistently strong performances. Prior to the recent strong pairings in the U.S. discipline, several top teams had their momentum severely slowed and hampered due to injury and illness.

So a number of veteran U.S. teams have had to go through cycles of rebuilding, which doesn't mean there isn't competitive talent among U.S. pairs. A lot of it has been about bad luck as well as trying to overcome the knee jerk perception that U.S. pairs aren't competitive. In fact, pairs is a tough discipline for any pair team. U.S. fed has not been supportive or attentive enough until recently regarding pairs, since their traditional focus has historically been on the singles disciplines.

The stats listed above regarding hardware success at Worlds and Olympics are interesting, but they don't take into account competitive strength and athletic value. The sport of figure skating is antiquated in its competitive structure, which hasn't changed much while the numbers of competitive figure skaters has increased tremendously since the sport's early days.
 
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I came across this interesting feature on John and Jennifer Nicks:

Ice Skating Champions | John and Jenny Nicks | My Brighton and Hove


Reading through it, I was surprised to find out that Randy Gardner's full first name is apparently 'Randolph.' I wonder why Tai Babilonia wasn't mentioned since she and Randy were skating together as pairs partners when Nicks started coaching both of them.

Randy & Tai were famously brought together as youngsters by the legendary Mabel Fairbanks. She was their first coach.
 
My favorite pairs is C/J. Their big weakness is obviously the SBS jumps. I trust that they know what they are doing because Jessica was talking about retooling her technique and they were at RA's rink. However, it would be interesting to see if they could do a 2A-1L-2S as a 3 jump combo; two birds w/ one stone - get a 3 jump combo in while maximizing what they can do right now.
 
In response to a reference to U.S. pairs not having a 'strong team,' that was mentioned in the U.S. ladies thread under 2021 U.S. Nationals, these are my thoughts:

U.S. pairs do currently have at least two strong teams who will hopefully continue the arduous process of helping to bring U.S. pairs better respect and medal success in the international realm. In terms of strong legacy, it is two U.S. pairs teams who respectively performed the first throw 3-axel (2006), and the first throw quad salchow (2007). Those feats are nothing to sneeze at. In addition, a U.S. pairs team was the first North American team after WWII to break through the former European dominance in pairs to win a gold medal at Worlds (1950).

U.S. pairs have not been on the Worlds podium since 2002, which is going on 17 years, so just 7 years longer at this point than the U.S. ladies drought. Of course, it's now been since 2016, another 4+ years and counting for U.S. ladies being off Worlds and Olympics podiums. During the 1960s and 1970s, Canadian pairs were off the Worlds and Olympics podiums for 19 years (until Barb Underhill & Paul Martini broke that drought in the early 1980s). During some of those 19 years, U.S. pairs were winning silver and bronze medals at Worlds and Olympics. So things go in cycles, which is why accessing historic perspective is beneficial to a deeper understanding.

U.S. pairs now have at least two strong, competitive teams. Just like for U.S. ladies, it is an uphill battle to change derogatory perceptions and to challenge the international political scoring with consistently strong performances. Prior to the recent strong pairings in the U.S. discipline, several top teams had their momentum severely slowed and hampered due to injury and illness.

So a number of veteran U.S. teams have had to go through cycles of rebuilding, which doesn't mean there isn't competitive talent among U.S. pairs. A lot of it has been about bad luck as well as trying to overcome the knee jerk perception that U.S. pairs aren't competitive. In fact, pairs is a tough discipline for any pair team. U.S. fed has not been supportive or attentive enough until recently regarding pairs, since their traditional focus has historically been on the singles disciplines.

The stats listed above regarding hardware success at Worlds and Olympics are interesting, but they don't take into account competitive strength and athletic value. The sport of figure skating is antiquated in its competitive structure, which hasn't changed much while the numbers of competitive figure skaters has increased tremendously since the sport's early days.
The US is looking good in pairs. Alexa and Brandon really are gelling fast and have big tricks. With Canada injuried with their no. 2 team and MTM notgrowing improving or being that impressive the Americans 0- both teams could beat both Canadians. With a bit of luck from say a poor skate from a Russian d Chinese the US could win three spots to the olympics.

think - China, Russia, China, Russia, USA, USA Russia Canada, China Korea - three spots.
 
On the Peacock broadcast of the pairs fp, I could tell that Alexa/Brandon are grounded, so I won't worry about the media chatter affecting them adversely. They were sitting there telling the viewers how hard it was getting through their program and that they had to fight for everything. They even said that Chris is not going to be happy with their death spiral. LOL! So much for J&T 'being brought to tears' while watching their fp! :LOL:

Right after K/F mentioned that about their death spiral, the scores came up. And I wish they hadn't been wearing face masks. On Peacock, you can hear Brandon say, "What???" They look at each other and start laughing. I understand why. Brandon then whispered to Alexa, "Don't let me get started." I'm not sure what Brandon meant exactly, but it could be about scoring inflation particularly in light of the 'scoring dumping' he and Haven received last season.

Yes, Haven/Brandon didn't skate very well at 2020 Nats, but they were somewhat harshly judged too. So Alexa & Brandon have both experienced roller coaster careers. From the depths to the heights can be dizzying, and so they need to stay on an even keel. They get what's happening, and they aren't going to let it affect their focus toward working hard to fulfill their own dreams. I'm sure they're happy to be appreciated, but they know 150+ isn't realistic at this point. They should score well internationally, of course, but they know that they still have things to continue working on.
That whole tears thing was nuts.
 
Some U.S. pairs new partnering and splits, cross-referenced from 'splits' thread:

Megan Wessenberg is now paired with Blake Einsach.

Winter Deardorff / Mikhail Johnson have split, as Johnson has retired to go to med school via the military.
Awww, I had been looking forward to good things possibly happening for these two mirror partners. Sadly, I suppose many skaters are seriously thinking about other options. Apparently, Mikhail was accepted into medical school with the U.S. military. It must have been a huge disappointment for Winter & Mikhail not to be able to debut at senior Nationals after all their hard work over the past couple of years. I feel sorry for Winter, as she seems as if she enjoys pairs skating. I hope she finds another partner. According to the Instagram announcement, Winter is still with Sappenfield, so I suppose they are in the process of scouting for a new partner for her:

I also heard that another of Sappenfield's pair teams has split: Brynne McIsaac and Mark Sadusky, who competed so well at the Challenge event!
Unfortunately, like Winter & Mikhail, along with another pair team at their rink, Brynne & Mark were also unable to attend Nationals in January (reportedly due to having been 'exposed to someone suspected of having COVID.' Or something of that nature).

Also, in the splits and retirement thread, it was mentioned that Megan Wessenberg has paired with Blake Eisenach. I'm happy to hear about Blake & Megan pairing up. Red-haired Blake formerly looked good with red-haired Grace Knoop. Grace famously had a foot injury (I think it was) at 2020 U.S. Junior Pairs Challenge, and they competed anyway without doing anything strenuous, just in order to qualify. But then they split. I believe they were training in Florida with Jim Peterson at the time. Nowadays, TeamTodd&Jenni in Irvine seems the place to be for U.S. pairs:

On Jenni & Todd Instagram, I see that Kate Finster and her brother are at that rink now too:
 
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A random question, but has anyone heard what Mokhova/Mokhov have been up to this year? They placed near/at the bottom at senior nationals last year. There's a video on their instagram of a rather nice triple throw from November but I haven't seen anything else. Maria is 14 now and they're looking much better matched together now that she's grown up a bit.
 
^^ I haven't seen or heard anything about the Mokhovs. I suppose they are continuing to work hard and will probably attend Nationals next year, and look toward competing for the U.S. internationally after Maria turns 15. Plus setting their sights on 2026 and 2030. Wow how time flies.

Meanwhile, Mr. Nicks forever!!!! Yay!!!! How wonderful seeing him at the rink again, with Todd & Jenni and their top teams. ❤️

BTW, is there any news on what prompted the McIsaac/Sadusky split after they looked so good together and were making progress?
 
Via the Splits/Partner Change Thread, thank you to @Ic3Rabbit :

There is a chance that Tarah Kayne/Balazs Nagy have or are teaming up

To the shock of ... few. (As I replied, facetiously but also meaning it :)) But I appreciate hearing the actual information, although I have no trouble with speculation, which is also fun.

As far as actual skating goes, what do you think of this possible partnership of Kayne and Nagy? And has anyone heard of Danny having a try-out with anyone, or prospects thereof? I'm hoping to see him continue in US Pairs skating. I'd still wish to see him skate with Haven Denney; I think they could be a beautiful pair. I only hope Danny isn't too disheartened to try again.
 
I posted this on another thread dealing with World minimums, but this is also a relevant spot.

Alexa and Brandon have submitted video of both their SP and FP to the ISU for technical minimum review (within the window), according to an Instagram story he posted. As his post said, "Now we wait."
 
I posted this on another thread dealing with World minimums, but this is also a relevant spot.

Alexa and Brandon have submitted video of both their SP and FP to the ISU for technical minimum review (within the window), according to an Instagram story he posted. As his post said, "Now we wait."
To their credit, Brandon and Alexa are both making a point of being modest and not assuming any advantages to themselves. I predict they'll have made their minimum. I don't pay much attention to the specifics of good technique, but I think I know it when I see it.
 
Via the Splits/Partner Change Thread, thank you to @Ic3Rabbit :



To the shock of ... few. (As I replied, facetiously but also meaning it :)) But I appreciate hearing the actual information, although I have no trouble with speculation, which is also fun.

As far as actual skating goes, what do you think of this possible partnership of Kayne and Nagy? And has anyone heard of Danny having a try-out with anyone, or prospects thereof? I'm hoping to see him continue in US Pairs skating. I'd still wish to see him skate with Haven Denney; I think they could be a beautiful pair. I only hope Danny isn't too disheartened to try again.

Right, I would not be shocked to see Tarah with Nagy on the ice, since they are already sympatico apparently off-the-ice. I suppose they are taking their time making an announcement. They will surely be training in the Detroit area with Jim Peterson and Amanda Evora.

Danny O'Shea is now apparently training at the Irvine, California rink with TeamTodd&Jenni, unless he was just visiting old pals. ;)

Group pic with Chris K; Brandon F; Nate B; Brian J; and Danny O!

Kate Finster training throw triples with Chris K:

So I wonder if perhaps Kate and Danny might team up. The Irvine rink certainly has a good number of senior pairs now, along with younger pairs teams:

Calalang/Johnson
Knierim/Frazier
McBeath/Bartholomay
Wessenberg/Eisenach

Kate Finster is training there, and now we see Danny O'Shea at the rink. Refresh my memory if there are other prominent senior teams there.

ETA: Chelsea Liu apparently is also back at the Irvine rink, so she's another candidate for Danny to try out with.
 
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Meanwhile, here's the list of those senior teams who competed at U.S. Nationals in Las Vegas in January:

Knierim/Frazier
Calalang/Johnson
Cain-Gribble/LeDuc
Lu/Mitrofanov
Chan/Howe
Serafini/Tran
McBeath/Bartholomay
Lockley/Prochnow
Hanns/Garbutt


There have been splits and new pairings, and some fairly recent teams who have not yet competed due to injury or pandemic-related issues. The Mokhovs as mentioned in an earlier post will surely be back to compete next season. Also, as mentioned, the new team of Wessenberg/ Eisenach are training in Irvine. And as discussed earlier, Tarah Kayne/ Balazs Nagy are likely a new team.

Apparently, after Brynne McIsaac split with Mark Sadusky, she was paired with T.J. Nyman (which has raised some eyebrows, due to reports of Nyman being under investigation by SafeSport* which can be discussed further in an appropriate thread). Sadusky looked good with McIsaac. Did Nyman urge the switch, or Sappenfield and Nyman. That's too bad for Sadusky having to try and find a new partner and start over again, after the time he invested with McIsaac.

Has anyone heard whether Nica Digerness has completed her rehab? She was paired with Ian Meyh, but I haven't heard much about any training progress.

Nica's former partner, Danny Neudecker was paired with Sasha Fakhroutdinov. I believe one or both of them have been hampered by injuries, and so AFAIK they haven't yet competed. Are they progressing? For the sake of skaters, the situation with Sappenfield needs to be resolved asap.

Sarah Burden/ Matthew Rounis are another team who have been training with Sappenfield, but weren't able to compete at U.S. Nationals, reportedly due to three of her teams having been exposed to someone suspected of contracting COVID. The other two teams have since split: McIsaac/Sadusky, and Winter Deardorff/ Mikhail Johnson (he's going to medical school). Deardorff is looking for a new partner.

Added to Deardorff, Chelsea Liu, Mark Sadusky, and Danny O'Shea, all appear to be looking for partners. It's unclear whether or not Haven Denney is planning to continue, after an initial tryout with T.J. Nyman did not come to fruition.

It's unclear whether Alison Timlen/ Justin Highgate-Brutman are still training with the hope of returning next season. As we've heard, Jessica Pfund/ Joshua Santillan sat out this season, and hopefully will get the chance to switch their country affiliation to Switzerland. I'm rooting for them all the way! ♥️

That said, I count 16 possible senior teams (17 with Timlen/ Highgate-Brutman, but not counting Pfund/ Santillan whom I hope will be able to represent Switzerland). There could be a few additional pairings formed in light of a number of skaters searching for partners. Just as easily, there could be additional splits occurring prior to next season.
 
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U.S. Junior Pairs teams who competed at 2021 U.S. Nationals:

Anastasia Smirnova/ Danil Siianytsia
Isabelle Martins/ Ryan Bedard
Valentina Plazas/ Maximiliano Fernandez
Catherine Rivers/ Timmy Chapman
Sydney Cooke/ Keyton Bearinger
Alexandra Prudsky/ Daniel Tioumentsev
Haley Conrad/ Kristofer Ogren
Juliette Reed/ Jordan Gillette


Obviously, this roster could change by next season. There are surely other young teams who weren't able to compete at Nationals this year. Plus, I'm not sure whether any of these teams will be eligible to move up to seniors next season.

I truly enjoyed the programs Rohene Ward* choreographed for Rivers/ Chapman. Ward also choreographed programs for Martins/ Bedard. Perhaps Ward is based at the rink where Brubaker/ Berton train their pairs teams.

Sydney Cooke/ Keyton Bearinger looked good together. They had a lovely short program.

*A recent article about Rohene Ward (also linked by el henry in the U.S. Men's thread):
 
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Well, Blissful Synergy, your posts certainly give a full, well-rounded picture that the US Pairs situation is thriving. It seems or looks as though whoever our favorites are that we hope to see get paired with a good, new partner, there are options.

I really liked Chelsea Liu and Ian Meyh when they were together (for a short time). I think Chelsea or Kate Finster might be an interesting possibility for Danny. Both of them are far behind him in pairs experience. I still like the idea of Haven with Danny. It really seems like musical chairs. I liked Brynne and Mark together, too. It's all rather head-spinning.
 
Well, Blissful Synergy, your posts certainly give a full, well-rounded picture that the US Pairs situation is thriving. It seems or looks as though whoever our favorites are that we hope to see get paired with a good, new partner, there are options.

I really liked Chelsea Liu and Ian Meyh when they were together (for a short time). I think Chelsea or Kate Finster might be an interesting possibility for Danny. Both of them are far behind him in pairs experience. I still like the idea of Haven with Danny. It really seems like musical chairs. I liked Brynne and Mark together, too. It's all rather head-spinning.

Danny doesn't need another partner who can't jump
 
Danny doesn't need another partner who can't jump
Who would you like to see him paired with?

I suppose you're not liking my idea of Danny with Haven. It's just that I'm imagining something different when I think of the two of them together, like I'm thinking of beauty and expression and maybe just a new lease or a new angle on the sport they both love. You never know what could happen when synergy works. But you certainly have a point; it was always Danny who was the much stronger jumper when with Tarah, and even when he missed a jump, it often seemed to me that he might have been overly thinking about Tarah and that threw his own jump off.
 
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