Oh, you must mean like what happened at 2019 Worlds, when they made the Top 10 (as the only U.S. entry) and got 2 spots back — the 2 spots the team wouldn’t have had now, since there was no Worlds in 2020.
No, not a bit of pressure there ...
2020-21 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating
- Thread starter skylark
- Start date
No, not a bit of pressure there ...
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- Aug 12, 2014
That's easy. There's always a possibility that a team or skater or any individual in any field or endeavor will reach their highest aspirations, no matter how many times they've been disappointed. I'm an optimist. Anyway, what I said was they'll work diligently to skate their best. I don't expect anyone to do more than that.
For that matter, Ashley and Tim have handled pressure very well at a number of competitions since teaming up. Notably, at 2019 Nationals and then with their performances at 2019 Worlds, when they stood up very well to the pressure of making the top 10 and thereby earning two spots back for the US. Lest we forget, in the year before (2018), the Knierims and Stellato/Bartholomay had finished in 15th and 17th, so that we went down to only one spot. There was also 2018 Nationals, when C/L skated so well in the FS that they brought themselves from 8th place to 4th. It was a fabulous skate. I could go on...
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- Dec 20, 2017
2019 was the weakest pairs field at worlds in 6 years...Aliona retired, meaghen and Eric retired, only 2 Chinese teams, one of the Russian teams had just come up from juniors...the tenth place german team scored 178.66 so in essence any US pair in the 6 at nationals could have achieved a score higher then 178.66 it wasn't a magnificent achievement.
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- Mar 3, 2014
I don’t think anyone is saying it is a “magnificent” achievement.
I think they are saying it is an achievement that was made under pressure. I certainly would say that.
The US pairs field is not, and was not, as strong as it could be, and Ash and Tim brought two spots back to the US. That was their goal, and they achieved it.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2018
there is a lot of fatigue after the olympics in 2018 though. Especially when the knierims skated 4 programs there. 2019 was also a weaker field. I think the teams they beat were similar aside from North Korea but they weren’t nearly as strong as they were in 2018.That's easy. There's always a possibility that a team or skater or any individual in any field or endeavor will reach their highest aspirations, no matter how many times they've been disappointed. I'm an optimist. Anyway, what I said was they'll work diligently to skate their best. I don't expect anyone to do more than that.
For that matter, Ashley and Tim have handled pressure very well at a number of competitions since teaming up. Notably, at 2019 Nationals and then with their performances at 2019 Worlds, when they stood up very well to the pressure of making the top 10 and thereby earning two spots back for the US. Lest we forget, in the year before (2018), the Knierims and Stellato/Bartholomay had finished in 15th and 17th, so that we went down to only one spot. There was also 2018 Nationals, when C/L skated so well in the FS that they brought themselves from 8th place to 4th. It was a fabulous skate. I could go on...
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
I don’t think anyone is saying it is a “magnificent” achievement.
I think they are saying it is an achievement that was made under pressure. I certainly would say that.
The US pairs field is not, and was not, as strong as it could be, and Ash and Tim brought two spots back to the US. That was their goal, and they achieved it.
Sometimes I just need a rockin' 
@el henry to put my words into plain English. 
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- Aug 12, 2014
The question/sarcasm put to me was 'when have Cain/Leduc handled pressure well'. My answer is that they were under pressure at Worlds 2019 to perform well enough to earn back two US pairs spots for Worlds.
They might have collapsed under the pressure and not made that goal. (Plenty others have done so, not necessarily pairs, and not necessarily from the US.)
But they didn't collapse. They did achieve their goal. That's why the United States gets to send two pairs to Worlds this month.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2018
Canadians. There is a third Chinese pair. They are probably good. We haven't seen much of them. Also austrians and Germans on a good day. Also Italians on a good day
This year I think there is a very good chance. I would say the Russians, two of the Chinese pairs, and then it is all pretty much equal.
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- Jul 17, 2018
I am expecting a rip-roaring Worlds—especially in pairs, being as pairs is full of things that can go unexpectedly wrong even under normal circumstances. Add to that the fact that we have not seen many of the major competitors this season, have no idea how—or if—anyone has been able to train, or who might show a positive test on arrival...well, it could be really wild!
I think all national teams would be well advised to bring an alternate for each discipline, if they have one.
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- Jan 28, 2013
I think some people have short memories. Before the championship, most thought the prospect of a Top 10 finish was 50/50 at the very best.
They did well, and you don't have to be their biggest fan to acknowledge that.
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- Feb 24, 2012
I was watching some of the Russian pairs teams and their 3S eu 3S. and 3F or individual jumps - wow. Things are changing that's for sure. Not even Duhamel and Radford really are at that level.
Well there goes whatever slim chances the US had for 3 spots at the Olympics and Worlds next year. C/J may struggle on the jumps but they pretty much outclass C/L in most other elements and i think C/L have maxed out their potential while C/J have not hit their prime yet. Two straight seasons of qualifying for Worlds and not going must be a bitter pill to swallow.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
Anastasia Mishina and Alexander Galliamov! I love them more every time I see them skate; they're now my favorite Russian pair.
Aaaaand back to US Pairs:
Audrey Lu and Misha Mitrofanov have a 3S-eu-3S. They've landed it in a lesser competition, I'm about 99% sure. At Nationals they turned it to a 3S-eu-2S ... but it's coming along!
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- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
I like the what a poster said in another forum:
USA is very fortunate to have a pair team with previous Worlds experience (Cain-Gribble/LeDuc) -- 9th in 2019, and they're currently ranked 12th in the ISU World Standings (C/J are #15) -- to send in their place.
And from another poster, speaking of pairs expected to be at Worlds:
There's a huge drop in scoring potential between either of CG/L and C/J and the rest of the field, except maybe Della Monica/Guarise fighting to be in 8th. But they've regressed a lot in the last 2 seasons, so Cain-Gribble and LeDuc have the same exact chance at that 8th place as C/J did.
And returning to my own thoughts, Ashley and Tim could be on an upswing. I wouldn't rule it out, especially because Ashley got a real boost in confidence at Nationals and said she felt again like the athlete that she is.
Of course, that doesn't compute in the way most people make their predictions. But a surge in confidence can make a difference, and what many of us love about figure skating is several ounces of unpredictability.
USA is very fortunate to have a pair team with previous Worlds experience (Cain-Gribble/LeDuc) -- 9th in 2019, and they're currently ranked 12th in the ISU World Standings (C/J are #15) -- to send in their place.
And from another poster, speaking of pairs expected to be at Worlds:
There's a huge drop in scoring potential between either of CG/L and C/J and the rest of the field, except maybe Della Monica/Guarise fighting to be in 8th. But they've regressed a lot in the last 2 seasons, so Cain-Gribble and LeDuc have the same exact chance at that 8th place as C/J did.
And returning to my own thoughts, Ashley and Tim could be on an upswing. I wouldn't rule it out, especially because Ashley got a real boost in confidence at Nationals and said she felt again like the athlete that she is.
Of course, that doesn't compute in the way most people make their predictions. But a surge in confidence can make a difference, and what many of us love about figure skating is several ounces of unpredictability.
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- Nov 12, 2012
I agree! While I am very disappointed that Jessica and Brian won’t be at Worlds, I think the US will be well represented with Ashley and Tim. Jessica and Brian may have a higher ceiling, but they’re not seasoned international competitors. Ashley and Tim actually beat Jessica and Brian in the long program at Nationals with lower PCS. I question whether international judges would have give Jessica and Brian 70.32 PCS with three major mistakes since they don’t have much of an international reputation yet.
I just hope that J & B overcome whatever adversity caused them to withdraw from Worlds!
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
Hey @skylark, where are you? Pairs is the bomb, and we need to talk about it!!!
I was only away for a little while, and so much is going on. My goodness.
I am completely sad for Jessica & Brian not having the opportunity to go to Worlds in 2020 when they were on a great roll. There's no way now of knowing where all of the athletes could be in their progression who had the chance of going to Worlds snatched away from them last year due to the pandemic. This has been a difficult skating season, and just overall a difficult time for the whole world. I'm glad the U.S. athletes have been able to compete more than once this season, and that they've found ways to continue staying fit.
Meanwhile, the announcement about Calalang/Johnson mentioned that their withdrawal from Worlds this season is for personal reasons and does not involve injury. Therefore, it's either something in their personal lives, or else a decision they made that they are not ready to compete at their very best. I hope it was their decision, and not something decided for them. It makes me wonder whether U.S. fed may have checked in on C/J and on Cain-Gribble/LeDuc to see where both teams are at. I could be wrong. Maybe with Jessica relearning jump technique, it was her and Brian who decided it might be best to take this time to retool and come back strong for next season. I hope that's more the reason.
Honestly, C/J and C-G/L are likely on a par in terms of how they'd be perceived by international judges. And due to C-G/L having a bit more exposure and experience in international competition, they are currently 12th on ISU pairs list, and C/J are 15th. Both teams have great assets and can compete well when they're on, so fingers crossed that it all works out for a great experience at Worlds for U.S. pairs (and all the disciplines)!
C-G/L were 9th at 2019 Worlds, so landing 8th this year should not be too difficult if they skate well. Frankly, Knierim/Frazier are good enough to compete well against a number of the current top international teams, especially if those teams falter on any of their elements, which is a possibility. For example, Peng/Jin are vulnerable at times. It's hard to know where P/J are at in terms of their conditioning and competitive strength since this has been an unusual season.
Moore-Towers/Marinaro are a gritty pair, but they aren't always on, so it's hard to judge exactly how well they will fare. This is especially true in view of the fact that Canadian athletes have not had the opportunity to compete often this season. M-T/M looked slightly rusty at the Skate Canada Challenge in January. So we'll see whether they regrouped and are more in their element. They have some good programs, but just not a lot of competition under their belts. In any case, I believe that K/F have some overall stronger assets than M-T/M. But the Canadian team has politics and more experience together in their favor.
Training has been uneven likely for some teams, so there are opportunities for both U.S. teams to do very well at Worlds. I hope they are able to take advantage of their opportunities.
I was only away for a little while, and so much is going on. My goodness.
I am completely sad for Jessica & Brian not having the opportunity to go to Worlds in 2020 when they were on a great roll. There's no way now of knowing where all of the athletes could be in their progression who had the chance of going to Worlds snatched away from them last year due to the pandemic. This has been a difficult skating season, and just overall a difficult time for the whole world. I'm glad the U.S. athletes have been able to compete more than once this season, and that they've found ways to continue staying fit.
Meanwhile, the announcement about Calalang/Johnson mentioned that their withdrawal from Worlds this season is for personal reasons and does not involve injury. Therefore, it's either something in their personal lives, or else a decision they made that they are not ready to compete at their very best. I hope it was their decision, and not something decided for them. It makes me wonder whether U.S. fed may have checked in on C/J and on Cain-Gribble/LeDuc to see where both teams are at. I could be wrong. Maybe with Jessica relearning jump technique, it was her and Brian who decided it might be best to take this time to retool and come back strong for next season. I hope that's more the reason.
Honestly, C/J and C-G/L are likely on a par in terms of how they'd be perceived by international judges. And due to C-G/L having a bit more exposure and experience in international competition, they are currently 12th on ISU pairs list, and C/J are 15th. Both teams have great assets and can compete well when they're on, so fingers crossed that it all works out for a great experience at Worlds for U.S. pairs (and all the disciplines)!
C-G/L were 9th at 2019 Worlds, so landing 8th this year should not be too difficult if they skate well. Frankly, Knierim/Frazier are good enough to compete well against a number of the current top international teams, especially if those teams falter on any of their elements, which is a possibility. For example, Peng/Jin are vulnerable at times. It's hard to know where P/J are at in terms of their conditioning and competitive strength since this has been an unusual season.
Moore-Towers/Marinaro are a gritty pair, but they aren't always on, so it's hard to judge exactly how well they will fare. This is especially true in view of the fact that Canadian athletes have not had the opportunity to compete often this season. M-T/M looked slightly rusty at the Skate Canada Challenge in January. So we'll see whether they regrouped and are more in their element. They have some good programs, but just not a lot of competition under their belts. In any case, I believe that K/F have some overall stronger assets than M-T/M. But the Canadian team has politics and more experience together in their favor.
Training has been uneven likely for some teams, so there are opportunities for both U.S. teams to do very well at Worlds. I hope they are able to take advantage of their opportunities.
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- Sep 1, 2020
LOL, then I guess you think, oh it was just a piece-of-cake for Ash & Timothy. Yeah, right. Such unfortunate disrespect has cropped up in this thread.
FYI: At 2019 Worlds, Ash/Timothy scored a total of 193.81, just over 15 points higher than the 178.66 by the 10th place team, Ziegler/Kiefer. Yet, Ash/Timothy had scored 212.36 at U.S. Nationals. Trying to compare stats and performances between skaters among different competitions isn't a good way to predict any outcomes. Just because the top 6 pair team scores at 2019 U.S. Nationals were higher than 178.66, does NOT mean those scores were directly transferrable by any of those teams to a Worlds competition! Hypotheticals are always useless ya know. It wasn't just 'any U.S. pair in the top 6 at Nationals' who went to Worlds in 2019, it was Cain-Gribble/LeDuc who earned their spot, represented and competed well, and most of all, obtained invaluable experience. That said, let's further analyze what you rapped off so disrespectfully:
2019 U.S. Figure Skating Championships - Wikipedia
That post-Olympics season, the most talented and internationally well known U.S. team, the Knierims, had made a lot of changes in order to raise their level. But things hadn't fully worked out with the risk they took to be coached by Aliona Savchenko. So the Knierims had a lot of sorting out prior to Nationals, even despite having some fairly interesting programs in which they were showing some improvements. The bigger issue is that Chris had a wrist or hand injury, so the Knierims ironically weren't even in the top 6 at Nationals. They had landed in 7th that year, which even then was a gift placement based on the problems with Chris' injury.
Denney/Frazier had a good season in 2018 - 2019, and they were strong second place finishers to Ash/Timothy at Nationals. However, as we know, Haven still had liabilities with her jump issues related to her knee injury. So, there was no guarantee D/F would have fared particularly well at 2019 Worlds had they won Nationals. In fact, D/F had struggled at Worlds in 2017 because that was the first season of their comeback from Haven's knee injury. The 3rd place team at Nationals in 2019: Stellato/Bartholomay were a good team with grand ambitions. S/B tended to be given the short end of the stick though, so in light of politics, and in view of their reach being somewhat greater than their grasp, no matter how well S/B performed, had they won the opportunity to go to Worlds in 2019, I don't think they would have necessarily gotten the respect and the points needed to win back 2 spots. Plus, Nate was injured and they ended up splitting.
Witness how well S/B performed in the sp at 2018 Worlds as the alternates to K/O who had to withdraw, and yet S/B were dumped on in the scoring and didn't make the fp cut. S/B didn't have the same international experience and exposure with the strong comparative results of Ash/Timothy, who had a great start when they first partnered. Ash/ Timothy were sent to a lot of senior Bs in their debut season (2016 - 2017), and they performed very well. Ash/Timothy won bronze at Golden Spin; placed 4th at Finlandia; 4th at Nebelhorn; and 9th at 4CCs.
In their debut season and first appearance at 2019 U.S. Nationals, Jessica/Brian surprised themselves and everyone else by placing fifth. They looked very good together right off the bat, so it was an impressive debut. However, in terms of your claim: C/J going to 2019 Worlds and scoring above some other veteran second tier international teams: I don't think so. Not because they don't have or didn't have talent then, or couldn't have stacked up well against some second tier teams in 2019. It's just the politics of the situation, combined with their lack of competitive experience as new partners at that point. For them, it was a bonus and a promise of better things to come just placing 5th at 2019 U.S. Nationals.
The 6th place team at 2019 U.S. Nationals, Lu/Mitrofanov, are and were very talented, but they were still young and growing as a team. It's doubtful they would have been placed ahead of many 2nd-tier veteran international teams with a score over 178+ simply because they scored 182+ at 2019 U.S. Nationals. A moot point too since realistically, L/M would never have been placed in first over all of the top U.S. veteran teams that year.
One important thing this rundown brings to mind is that figure skating tends to mostly be a crapshoot the way competitions are structured, and the way the sport is scored. Politics are a huge factor, and too few competitive opportunities often hampers the ability of skaters to gain growth experience. U.S. pairs figure skating is very strong, and it's becoming stronger. Skaters simply need the chance to compete and to hone their talent and experience at a variety of competitions.
FYI: The entire international pairs landscape has changed, and there's no going back. It doesn't matter who competes or who doesn't at any given competition. Things are always changing in sport and in life, in case you didn't realize that! Living life, and also competing as a top level athlete is about going on your own personal journey and doing the best you can, and learning from every experience and never giving up. That's the most anyone can ask of themselves.
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- Sep 1, 2020
Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed this interview, even despite the technical problems and not having a full view at all times of both Brandon & Haven. The host is from Mexico I believe. She has also previously interviewed Ash/Timothy. She is a good host and she asks good questions. I think she has competed professionally too, so she apparently has contacts in the skating world.
Brandon & Alexa, as usual, are great interview subjects. They are so honest and thoughtful in their responses. This interview further deepens my understanding of their personalities and of their new partnership.
I particularly enjoyed the discussion of how they selected their music, and the significance behind choosing the music they are using this season. The host asked how they are defining themselves as a pair. I think that takes time for teams to figure out. I liked Alexa's answer of wanting to explore different genres, and ultimately to combine a bit of what they had in their previous partnerships and create something dynamic and graceful. What strikes me about Alexa & Brandon the most is their mutual athleticism which seems to match so well. Maybe they should explore music around that kind of theme, i.e., dynamic, high energy music; going on a challenging and victorious competitive journey -- there's surely music out there that explores such themes.
I think Brandon & Haven were still developing as a team in part due to the disruption they faced and the long road back dealing with Haven's knee injury. I agree that they had dynamic energy, along with gracefulness (that was not necessarily lyrical). Ultimately, they were still defining themselves. For me, the Knierims were more of a romantic team with high quality elements. The Knierims could do graceful, but I don't think gracefulness or lyricism was necessarily their forte either.
In looking at how Brandon & Alexa have come together, as I said, I was struck when I first saw them together by how well-matched they are athletically, even more-so than either of them were with their previous partners. To hear Alexa say that skating with Brandon felt comfortable right away speaks to how quickly they have melded as a team with high quality elements. Their mutual enthusiasm and hard work ethic also gives them the edge that has garnered good results.
I would love to see these two continue skating past 2022, and I hope they do.
