2020-21 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating | Page 22 | Golden Skate

2020-21 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating

Actually, I'm not sure there were "rumors" of Jessica and Brian splitting. From what I saw, I'd characterize it more as fans wondering, and hoping they didn't split, and expressing their concern.

I was going to respond the same, to @TontoK's post above, but then I thought maybe I was splitting hairs. (I've been known to ... ask folks I play Trivial Pursuit with! :rofl:). And on the other hand, I don't do much social media -- usually I only go to links I see around here -- so how would I know?

Whatever their personal reasons were for choosing to sit out Worlds this year, it may have been a very wise decision. Maybe whatever it was had caused a significant break in their training, and Jenni & Todd helped them evaluate/make the decision. I'm just speculating. But I also think their talent, magic together and the loyalty to their partnership that they've shown bode well.
 
Actually, I'm not sure there were "rumors" of Jessica and Brian splitting. From what I saw, I'd characterize it more as fans wondering, and hoping they didn't split, and expressing their concern.

I was going to respond the same, to @TontoK's post above, but then I thought maybe I was splitting hairs. (I've been known to ... ask folks I play Trivial Pursuit with! :rofl:). And on the other hand, I don't do much social media -- usually I only go to links I see around here -- so how would I know?

Whatever their personal reasons were for choosing to sit out Worlds this year, it may have been a very wise decision. Maybe whatever it was had caused a significant break in their training, and Jenni & Todd helped them evaluate/make the decision. I'm just speculating. But I also think their talent, magic together and the loyalty to their partnership that they've shown bode well.
You are correct, friend... rather than "rumors" I would have been better served with "speculation" or "worries" that they would split.

In any event, I'm glad that they will continue. They are too lovely a pair to part ways. And I don't want to intrude on their privacy about the personal reasons they decided to withdraw, but the busy-body in me kind of wants to know the story.
 
You are correct, friend... rather than "rumors" I would have been better served with "speculation" or "worries" that they would split.

In any event, I'm glad that they will continue. They are too lovely a pair to part ways. And I don't want to intrude on their privacy about the personal reasons they decided to withdraw, but the busy-body in me kind of wants to know the story.
:rofl:I feel exactly the same!
 
So, Sylvia Unseen tweeted about a new junior pair - Chase Finister and Cate Fleming. She said they were with Meno and Sands and included links to IG stories. Came back later and the tweet had been deleted and the IG links no longer worked. Very mysterious.
 
Brandon and Alexa haven't really skated against any of the big couples have they? It will be interesting to see where they come out.
 
Brandon and Alexa haven't really skated against any of the big couples have they? It will be interesting to see where they come out.
They have competed twice. Once at SA and once at US Nationals. So no.
 
^ I think that K/F have enough experience separately to know how to handle major intl. competitions, though. The big issue for them was getting to know each other and developing a synergy, technically understanding one another on the throws and twist, which I would say has been very successful. I also think that the jumps are more successful not just due to the fact that they were the stronger jumpers from their respective teams, but I often think that when they botched a jumping pass, it was a lot of times due to distraction by their former partners
 
From a new Fanzone article on Ashley and Tim:

"Finally, in that free skate at nationals [U.S. Championships], I just felt like I was in it," she said. "I didn't care what anybody thought, what anybody was doing or what anybody said around me. I didn't care what other teams had skated. I just wanted to feel the connection to Timothy and to the music, and really perform the program in a way that felt special to us. And when the music ended, I felt like I never had a doubt in my mind..."

This quote from Ashley expresses so much of "the why" that she and Tim skate, and also rediscovering herself in that moment. From Tim:

"As a partner, that's my gold medal. Getting to hear my partner say that and feel that satisfaction and that breakthrough, it's so gratifying," LeDuc said.... "your partner is like your best friend, and I'm Ashley's biggest cheerleader.

"So when I hear her say these things like, 'I broke through, and I feel so great about this,' it's just like, 'Cool! Well, I win!'" LeDuc said with a laugh. "That's a good day at the office.
"

 
We'll know very soon how successful K/F and C-G/L are going to be competing against the top teams. I'm hoping for the best but I'll be prepared for whatever happens.
This is pretty par for the course for any US pairs fans.

LOL at Tara while commentating at Nationals during the slo-mo replay of K/F's LP; JW critiqued K/F for being too far apart and a touch out of synch on the SBS jumps, and Tara said (paraphrasing) 'This is a US pair, I'll take it'.
 
Congratulations to Cain-Gribble/LeDuc and Knierim/Frazier for their 6th and 7th short program finishes today! It isn't over yet, but it's the case that many doubted they could place as they have.

I listened to Jackie Wong's longish IG post over an hour ago. He opined that if C-G/L and K/F had skated as well as they're capable of skating, they would have been 4th and 5th today. Of course, that implies that everyone else would have skated the same, which rather skews the statement. But I think what he was saying was that these two US pairs did well, and that they're worthy of their placements.

I was glad to hear him say that, because it seems to me that US Pairs get a bad rap in general (ref. Tara's reported remark, above) ... when actually they have their strengths, beauties, pressures and struggles just like everyone else does. Several of the top teams struggled on their SBS jumps today; it wasn't just the Americans. I quite expected C-G/L and K/F to skate well enough to come in front of the Austrians, the Italians, the Canadians., and the Japanese (who provided one of the nicest surprises for viewers). Now, anything can happen tomorrow, and that order could be shaken up. The scores for the pairs finishing 6th through 10th are ridiculously close. So it'll be exciting.

Whatever happens tomorrow, I'm celebrating what they did today, even though I'm hoping for good skating tomorrow. Ashley and Tim had a quite different set of pressures and challenges than Alexa and Brandon did, but both teams rose to the occasion in several ways. It's a journey.

Here's looking forward to their skating their best tomorrow, and hoping that they'll be happy with their performances. I believe they can!
 
@skylark I thought this was a very solid segment for the Americans.

It's the old canard. "You can't win the competition in the short program, but you can lose it." If we define "winning" as the desired combined placement at the end... then they didn't "lose" it.
 
I was a bit disappointed with Alexa and Brandon’s short because they were understandably tight and didn’t skate to their full potential. While I knew their score would hold up for awhile, I didn’t expect it to hold up as well as it did! Their GOE’s were lower than they received domestically which I attributed to nerves, but I was pleasantly surprised to see that their GOE’s weren’t that far out of line with those of many of the top teams.
I kind of expected Ashley and Tim to rise to the occasion and they didn’t disappoint!

After a nail bitter of an afternoon, I’m very happy with where US pairs stand going into the free. I‘ll actually be surprised if they don’t at least hold their current placements.

Good luck tomorrow Alexa & Brandon, Ashley & Tim!
 
This is pretty par for the course for any US pairs fans.

LOL at Tara while commentating at Nationals during the slo-mo replay of K/F's LP; JW critiqued K/F for being too far apart and a touch out of synch on the SBS jumps, and Tara said (paraphrasing) 'This is a US pair, I'll take it'.
For me though, I don't appreciate the wink wink joking because it plays into the stereotype of U.S. pairs always being bad and disappointing, which is a view that feeds on itself and perpetuates the disrespect that U.S. pairs get even when they are very talented. Sometimes U.S. teams (for example, the former team of Denney/Frazier, et al.) ultimately have trouble fully believing in themselves. We need to perpetuate positivity and support for our U.S. pairs, no matter what. They have been good for years, but several teams faced injury/illness woes and setbacks. Let's look forward to better things happening for the entire U.S. discipline, at this time when there is increased depth and valuable improvement.

I had to laugh and clap. I see someone I follow on Twitter posting away about how wonderful it is that U.S. pairs has a possibility of gaining a third spot. I didn't know this person is a figure skating fan. It's rather cool to see.
 
I was a bit disappointed with Alexa and Brandon’s short because they were understandably tight and didn’t skate to their full potential. While I knew their score would hold up for awhile, I didn’t expect it to hold up as well as it did! Their GOE’s were lower than they received domestically which I attributed to nerves, but I was pleasantly surprised to see that their GOE’s weren’t that far out of line with those of many of the top teams.
I kind of expected Ashley and Tim to rise to the occasion and they didn’t disappoint!

After a nail bitter of an afternoon, I’m very happy with where US pairs stand going into the free. I‘ll actually be surprised if they don’t at least hold their current placements.

Good luck tomorrow Alexa & Brandon, Ashley & Tim!
Both teams could have performed and scored better. But neither performed terribly. They both had basically one noticeable error, but came through overall. I believe Alexa may have also been dinged for a slight two-foot on the throw landing and Brandon doubled that triple (which was so surprising because they have both been very solid on the jumps). Ash fell on the jumping pass, but she came through on the throw landing, and they were so dynamic and well-trained on everything else.

The fact is (as I mentioned in the pbp Pairs thread): U.S. teams have the brass and the class, i.e. huge talent that matches up to the top tier. Both U.S. teams lasted at the lead till the final group and a half because they are that good. Plus, skating early K/F were held a bit down on PCS, and I also think Ash/Tim could have been scored slightly better, especially when you look at a couple of teams ahead of them also making similar errors, but getting much higher scores due to PCS, and/or higher GOE on some elements.

Ash/Tim and Alexa/Brandon did well though, and honestly they have the top-notch skills to compete well with every team in this field. They need to know that and own it!
 
I listened to Jackie Wong's longish IG post over an hour ago. He opined that if C-G/L and K/F had skated as well as they're capable of skating, they would have been 4th and 5th today. Of course, that implies that everyone else would have skated the same, which rather skews the statement. But I think what he was saying was that these two US pairs did well, and that they're worthy of their placements.
Of course they're worthy of their placements. I have to listen to Wong's words and the context, but I would say everyone should relax and just root for both teams and keep our fingers crossed. It is the judges who decided not to view Ash/Tim and Alexa/Brandon as highly as they should have in the sp. In other words, both U.S. teams deserved a bit better PCS and higher GOE on what they did well.

Peng/Jin and T/M also faltered slightly and didn't get as high scores as they can, but clearly they were more highly valued by the judges which meant they weren't low-balled scoring-wise in the same way that U.S. teams kinda were. Part of the reason is because Alexa/Brandon skated so early, and Ash/Tim were also in one of the earlier groups. Thus, it looks like the judges were saving scoring room or something. But the U.S. teams match up well and in a number of cases better than other teams in this field in terms of overall strengths. So hopefully from here on out, U.S. teams will show their worth and be able to skate in later groups and get those automatic high GOE/PCS/reputation scores!

ETA:
Plus, in the lead-up to Worlds a number of fans in the worldwide pairs thread were discussing possibilities, and I along with others already pointed out how Ash/Tim and Alexa/Brandon could compete well with so many of the top teams, including vs KMT/MM, Peng/Jin and Della Monica/Guarise. Ash/Tim have beaten an error-prone T/M in the past too.

Another thing to remember is that B/K and M/G have the key winning ingredient in Moskvina. I doubt either team would be as confident and well put-together as they are currently without Moskvina's tutelage and choreo. Koslovskii is not really the best pairs guy in the world. He just has a lot of heart and desire to win, and Moskvina has helped show him and Boikova how to win, in addition to camouflaging their weaknesses.

S/H's achilles heel are their vulnerabilities with their recent injuries and some hiccoughs here and there at times recently, particularly on the sbs salchows. Sui is usually rock solid on the throws. I don't think S/H's lifts should get so much high GOE. They perform lifts well, but obviously don't have the same amplitude and expansive quality as some other pairs. It's just that S/H are dynamic in their determination and self-belief.
 
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I was pleasantly surprised that Alexa & Brandon's score held up well from Group 1 (they were held down in PCS and GOE), but also bummed for them because they've skated stronger SPs before, and Brandon hasn't had a mistake on a jump all season (in fairness, it's his first year ever competing a 3T). But it's a good thing that I feel so disappointed over a 2T, because it shows that they've been skating extremely well and their mistakes are surprising instead of expected. I want them to be able to skate up to their potential, but I have to remember they've been together barely 11 months (with limited ice time, no less) and aren't going to be error-free every time.

They're facing the pressure of rising expectations now and have to learn to channel that into positive energy. When they submitted competition videos to the ISU to earn the Tech Minimums last month, they scored 41 TES in the SP, which would have been 2nd here at Worlds. It must be difficult for them to not get caught up in their own potential and instead just focus on developing as a new team.

They still should have been able to score pretty high with the 2T, but they were a little tight on some other elements and got hammered skating so early. Had they skated 3 or 4 groups later, I think they would have placed 6th, and not that far behind 5th. It's much worse to make a mistake in Group 1 than in Group 5 and you could sense they were feeling the pressure to not mess up instead of just going for it. They got a couple +2s on their twist (not their best twist, but it was good enough), and the same judges gave Ashley & Tim +3s on their twist (which had a rough catch) hours later. Start order unfortunately came into play. C/L definitely benefited from skating later, although both US pairs scored about the same and ended up placing well.

It looks to me Alexa & Brandon are still settling in on what is the best technique for them on their twist, throws, jumps (to get them equally timed), etc. Their throws get amazing distance, but sometimes there appears to not be quite enough arc for Alexa to land as well as she could, and I attribute this to Brandon having only worked on new throw technique for less than a year. I can't tell if their little throw mistakes are nerves or technical things, maybe it's both. Sometimes they'll post a throw on Instagram and I'm blown away by the quality. Their twist should get better with time too. They're still figuring out "new pair" things while also battling for top 5 or 6 in the World. It's a lot--- but I thought they handled it well enough, especially Alexa.
 
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They got a couple +2s on their twist (not their best twist, but it was good enough), and the same judges gave Ashley & Tim +3s on their twist (which had a rough catch) hours later. Start order unfortunately came into play. C/L definitely benefited from skating later, although both US pairs scored about the same and ended up placing well.
You make it sound like a bad thing that Ashley and Tim have the world standing that they do. It isn't. First of all, they earned it. Secondly, US Pairs benefits from having two good solid teams.

Best of luck to Alexa and Brandon and Ashley and Tim in today's FS! And best of luck to all the pairs representing their countries at Worlds!
 
So it is what it is. I had to stop watching after Ash/Tim's s free skate. It's very disappointing and the rest of the outcome is simply a given, so I'll check it out much later. The most exciting aspect of this event for me was in seeing whether the two U.S. teams could throw off the nerves and rise to the occasion to just do their best. That's all they had to do, and they failed. As I said before, it is important to maintain perspective and to continue supporting our athletes and encouraging them to not get down on themselves, because I know both teams wanted to do well. Neither were able to overcome their nerves, and it's that simple. We don't need a ton of excuses because there aren't any. As well, I don't want to hear any whining about U.S. teams not being good or always having problems with jumps. That was not the problem. Both of these U.S. teams are strong with the jumps. But clearly, the jumps are the first thing that will go for any skater when they can't manage the nerves. The overall closeness of the final scores for the second to last group shows that any outcome was possible.

I guess it was too much pressure. It maybe would have almost have been better for them to be 7 and 9 in the sp and skate the fp without the additional pressure of maintaining three spots. In the end, it was too much pressure. The pressure of their own expectations coupled with the historic pressure of gaining back three spots for the first time since 1994. I don't know what their coaches would be able to do for them, because the coaches were probably very anxious too, having such a close relationship with their respective skaters.

What both teams have to do now is to look at themselves honestly and face up to the fact that they faltered under pressure, and understand what that pressure was about, and try to learn from it, and then put it behind them. As I say it was twofold. Their own expectations, and then the burden of making history in bringing back 3 spots for the Olympics next year, and what that would mean. Alexa/Brandon surely feel how much they let down not only themselves but their teammates, Jess/Brian. It might well be that both Alexa/Brandon and Jess/Brian end up making the Olympics next year. That's very possible.

What is for sure is that Ash/Tim and Alexa/Brandon have to reckon with the fact that it's also possible now that one or perhaps even both of them won't make the Olympics next year. More than likely, if Alexa/Brandon get over this bad hump, and it's bad because there was a lot at stake, they are likely to still be favored by U.S. fed due to their talent. I suppose they have to now say, well we did the best we could, but we didn't really skate our best. Both teams have to say that if they are being honest. And then just accept that it wasn't a given they were going to get 3 spots. It's just that it was so tantalizingly close, and they both do have the talent at their best level to beat teams at Worlds in both of the final groups. They just have to be at the best of what they are actually capable of doing. Being unable to control the nerves did both of these teams in. The saving grace is that they didn't completely crumble. So they have that to hold onto and they can feel proud of just pushing through when things didn't go right, chiefly the jumps. That's because it's hard to jump when your muscles are tight.

The next question becomes: How many more opportunities are going to be available? This sport only offers very narrow windows of opportunity, particularly in pairs where you have more luck and opportunities if you're a top Russian or Chinese team who make it out of Russian and Chinese Nationals every year. This is why I don't have much sympathy for T/M or Peng/Jin because they get opportunities all the time, and a lot of points are thrown their way when they make mistakes. Teams like the two U.S. teams who have good talent have to scrap and claw their way just to get the chance to compete at Worlds -- and it just isn't a given that they will have a chance to go every year like T/M and Peng/Jin have done on the regular. It's important to be able to compete at Worlds every year in order to gain experience and to get better.

I know neither Alexa/Brandon nor Ash/Tim give up easily. But with only two spots, and with Jess/Brian and even Lu/Mitrofanov being very talented, it will be a struggle at Nationals next year. This could have been such a victory for U.S. pairs. Honestly, both of these U.S. teams are better matched than KMT/MM, with some stronger elements, but if you can't show that under pressure, then you're cooked. Since Ash/Timothy don't have the strongest lifts and 3-twist, they lost points there after they faltered on the sbs jumps, which are supposed to be one of their assets. Both teams skated tentatively. I could see Brandon was dealing with nerves in the warm-up, which he seemed to overcome. But then sadly, Alexa had lost confidence worrying about him, and so she ended up flubbing her revolutions when Brandon made his. It's so mind-numbing when we know they can land these jumps!

You have to want to be there and figure out how to be loose, at the same time that you're aggressive with just the right balance of aggression and calm. How glorious it would have been if they'd just simply skated more freely without the weight of the world. Figure that out please, and don't let go of the dream. Get those 3 spots next year then, when it might be Jess/Brian and Alexa/Brandon. It's sad though, that only two U.S. pairs teams can attend Worlds and Olympics, when three to four have top talent, but can't improve on the big stage unless they can compete and gain experience on the big stage. I just hope they don't start saying, 'Oh we haven't been together long enough.' Alexa/Brandon do have veteran experience with other partners, and they've worked so hard together. When an opportunity arrives, you got to deliver. This was it. Maybe if they'd blocked out the chatter and focused down on why they're there personally, and concentrated on the joy. Ah well, a bummer, but 7 and 9 maintains two spots, and they have to continue pushing forward. And if U.S. pairs is going to actually be competitive going forward, U.S. fed also needs to put the right kind of emphasis and funding toward elevating the discipline. That requires a lot more than the Mom/Pop approach that U.S. fed currently has.

So I hope U.S. fed, and our pairs teams get their acts together for next season, because not all is lost. U.S. teams have the talent to compete at the top. Now they need the self-belief, self-possession and calm aggression needed to deliver when it matters most.
 
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