2021-2022 U.S. Men's Figure Skating | Page 24 | Golden Skate

2021-2022 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

skatesofgold

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
It's interesting reading the narrative the press is giving Nathan Chen heading into the 2022 Olympics which seems to be "redemption for 2018 after being heavily favored and faltering at Pyeongchang."

I dont think there's any doubt that Nathan fell below expectations in 2018, but I don't remember him being *that* much of a favorite heading into the Olympics...maybe an outside favorite, but not THE favorite from 2018. Nathan bombed at 2018 worlds, and had a run of 2nd place free programs in the 17-18 season suggesting his form wasn't where it needed to be. Sure he beat Hanyu at 4CC and an injured Hanyu at Rostelecom, and barely beat Shoma at the GPF, but Nathan didn't have that aura of infallibility that he has now. I remember the overall thinking still being "If Hanyu skates clean, he'll win gold." I remember it being Hanyu as the favorite, with Shoma, Nathan, Javier, Boyang and MAYBE Patrick and Mikhail kind of being lumped into the same group of "favored for a medal, could beat Hanyu if he's off." But I don't know, maybe I'm just remembering things wrong.
Nathan won 2018 Worlds. He just bombed at the Olympics.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
I am thrilled that Jimmy Ma will be skating in Las Vegas this weekend. It will be great for new fans to discover this wonderful skater, but on a personal note I will be able to heal from a very negative experience that happened to me last year after his performance at U.S. nationals. He has two great programs this year and I haven't been so excited with an American man's free program since Max Aaron skated to The Lion King.
I’m sorry something bad happened but so glad to find a fellow Jimmy Ma fan here. Judging from his fan thread, we are a rare breed of great discernment.

I do miss the purple hoodie.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Nathan Chen is a beast. He has matured and his skating stabilized. 2018 is so long ago and my recollection the strategy backfired and I believe his mother was involved with decisions of the short program and going for such difficult jumps. If he stays healthy he has an excellent shot at gold. He has been dominant over this quad. His top rival Hanyu has started to show some weaknesses or age. The others are mere pretenders and he has so many quads. I don't think his skating is that great but if you land the quads the pcs come and the tes are all there. I think it is great to see that the US also has the solid and top pc getter in Jason Brown and vinnie and Jimmy among others to bring up more quadsters. They have a strong team.
 

StitchMonkey

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
And it was just the short program as he won the free skate program at the Olympics

He has actually won ever segment since other than 2 SPs where he came in 3rd

The only skaters to have beaten him even in a segment since the last Olympics are Hanyu and Kagiyama at worlds this year and at IDF in 2018 where in the short Alexander Samarin was in second and a quadless Jason Brown was in first.

Kinda crazy that Jason is one of very few skater to put a dent in his record.
 

Kittosuni

Medalist
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
So based on the schedule of Olympics team and individual event, I'm guessing Nathan (and Hanyu, Kolyada) will only be doing short program in team event.
 

StitchMonkey

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
So based on the schedule of Olympics team and individual event, I'm guessing Nathan (and Hanyu, Kolyada) will only be doing short program in team event.


Not sure. I could see Nathan and Hanyu saving themselves for the singles battle.

Beyond that.... i really hope that USFS makes what i see as the right call and puts two ice dance teams in the team event. Yes that means sacrificing an singles skater, but H/D and C/B have been top skaters in the world for close to a decade now and have multiple world medals and national titles between them. I don't think there is any fair way to pick only one of them. The USA should be proud of both of them and should reward both teams. Ice dance has earned two spots in the team event.

So i don't know what USFS will do with the singles spots. I am not sure Nathan will want to do two events, I also am not sure Vincent would... i think he wants to go all in for an individual medal.

Jason would likely gleefully do both events. Which may be the most likely outcome. He is was manifested into realty for team events. He is more likely (i think) than Nathan/Vincent to be happy to go all in for the team event even if he is not as strong on the individual side.

The ladies... are an even bigger head scratcher as we don't have as clear an idea of the faves or how they are looking. Alyssa may be in a similar spot of does she save her self for the individual event or skate to events in the team. Long term for Alyssa doing both could be good as she does have some long term sponsorship potential so the exposure for her may be more valuable than other skaters.

The other question... what is USFS's goal in the team? If we send Nathan and Alyssa in BOTH SP/FS we may have a chance heck of getting gold.... so what will the strategy be? Swaping out our pairs means we can have one focus on the SP and one the LP which for our weakest discipline could be a good idea as there is less to focus on for each team. It also might be a good way to grow pairs in the USA by showing two pairs team medalists. Ice dance... well it does often seem the C/B vs H/D often have opposite stronger programs... so again, giving them the two spots could work.

So i guess what i am saying is... we have a few pieces of the puzzle missing before we can make much of a guess.
 

LiamV426

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Country
Scotland
Man the schedule is so stupid and unfair for the men, why not swap the men's free with the pair's free this year to allow them a day to rest/prepare for their big event? This schedule means the men who skate the Team FP will have the individual SP the very next day. On the twitter post it says the schedule is prone to changes so I hope they use some common sense here and fix it.
 

sheetz

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
In his Team USA Media Summit press conference Nathan said he definitely wants to do the Team Event so it's likely he'll do the SP. I'm guessing Vincent would want to do the FS as he doesn't yet have an Olympic medal and he's stated that one of his goals is to bring one back from Beijing.
 

Dogo

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 2, 2020
Very happy for Vincent, relieved for Jimmy, and glad to see that Nathan does not look injured after a fall and step out. Nathan uses his GP basically as if they were B Challengers, so there is that. I know he has already dealt with this feeling before of not doing great on his SP. So I hope he remembers those experiences and does his best on the LP. No matter what the outcome is for Nathan here (or at Skate Canada), he should remember that these are just his first competitions and he is known for being a literal skater beast by the end of the season. There is solid proof to that.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
Well I just went back and rewatched my man Jimmy’s skate and Johnny’s all like “that’s a great score for somebody like Jimmy Ma.” What does that even mean?
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Well I just went back and rewatched my man Jimmy’s skate and Johnny’s all like “that’s a great score for somebody like Jimmy Ma.” What does that even mean?

I have been a huge fan of Jimmy Ma since 2018 Nationals. 🤗
And I certainly do not love every single thing that Johnny Weir says.

In this case, what Johnny said was understandable and reasonable to me.
Jimmy's previous ISU personal best for SP was 73.21 -- which he exceeded by over 11 points.

Plus Johnny has a habit -- which I dislike -- of reciting "benchmark" (my word) scores without making clear that only the very best skaters are capable of his "benchmarks," which for men are 100 for SP; 200 for FS; 300 for total score.
Although I think Johnny has good intentions of giving casual fans a frame of reference, I think it is misleading to blithely speak of 100/200/300 without emphasizing that only a small number of men actually have attained those benchmarks.

It so happened that Vincent was the first skater, and when he was in the Kiss and Cry, Johnny once again had rattled off his benchmarks of 100/200/300 (which was not quite as annoying to me as usual, because Vincent previously has been in the range of those benchmarks). This time, Johnny's wording (still not satisfactory to me) was, "up over 100 is where you want to be," and "the name of the game" is 100/200/300.

I think/hope that Johnny was not trying to be condescending to Jimmy, who was the very next skater after Vincent. I am willing to give Johnny the benefit of the doubt that by saying, "for someone like Jimmy Ma," Johnny had good intentions of giving a more realistic picture to casual fans that Jimmy's score was great! Even though it was not close to the benchmark of 100 that Johnny had mentioned just a few minutes earlier when Vincent was in the Kiss and Cry.



Wishing good luck to Jimmy, Vincent, and Nathan in the FS!
I hope that none of them will overthink their placement in the SP -- and that all three will be at their best. :pray:
 
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mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Well, it certainly looks like Vincent wants to prove to any doubters who still might be out there that Worlds was just an unfortunate fluke of an event. A beautiful performance and a nice lead over the rest of the US Men. I haven't seen Nathan's performance but, he must have popped or fallen on a jumping pass to be that far back. Best of luck in the Free....
 
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moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
I have been a huge fan of Jimmy Ma since 2018 Nationals. 🤗
And I certainly do not love every single thing that Johnny Weir says.

In this case, what Johnny said was understandable and reasonable to me.
Jimmy's previous ISU personal best for SP was 73.21 -- which he exceeded by over 11 points.

Plus Johnny has a habit -- which I dislike -- of reciting "benchmark" (my word) scores without making clear that only the very best skaters are capable of his "benchmarks," which for men are 100 for SP; 200 for FS; 300 for total score.
Although I think Johnny has good intentions of giving casual fans a frame of reference, I think it is misleading to blithely speak of 100/200/300 without emphasizing that only a small number of men actually have attained those benchmarks.

It so happened that Vincent was the first skater, and when he was in the Kiss and Cry, Johnny once again had rattled off his benchmarks of 100/200/300 (which was not quite as annoying to me as usual, because Vincent previously has been in the range of those benchmarks). This time, Johnny's wording (still not satisfactory to me) was, "up over 100 is where you want to be," and "the name of the game" is 100/200/300.

I think/hope that Johnny was not trying to be condescending to Jimmy, who was the very next skater after Vincent. I am willing to give Johnny the benefit of the doubt that by saying, "for someone like Jimmy Ma," Johnny had good intentions of giving a more realistic picture to casual fans that Jimmy's score was great! Even though it was not close to the benchmark of 100 that Johnny had mentioned just a few minutes earlier when Vincent was in the Kiss and Cry.



Wishing good luck to Jimmy, Vincent, and Nathan in the FS!
I hope that none of them will overthink their placement in the SP -- and that all three will be at their best. :pray:
Thank you for the lovely and informative answer.
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Well, it certainly looks like Vincent wants to prove to any doubters who still might be out there that Worlds was just an unfortunate fluke of an event. A beautiful performance and a nice lead over the rest of the US Men. I haven't seen Nathan's performance but, he must have popped or fallen on a jumping pass to be that far back. Best of luck in the Free....
Yeah, Nathan fell on his first quad. It was a shocking skate for him, but would have been just an "off" day at the office for anyone else. We do expect Nathan to be practically super-human, because he, well, seems super-human! But he's not. He just works really hard and has skating talent to the skies. I hope and believe he'll follow his usual pattern ... he'll put everything into the FS, and we'll all be dazzled again.

Maybe you have a point about Vincent, but that's not how I read Vincent at all. He puts his heart and soul into skating, and when you do that, there's a certain perspective or bit of objectivity missing that means when you stumble, you're all in. Last night's skating was exactly what he usually does.... And thank goodness for it, and for Shoma's and Jimmy's skates, too! Most of the rest were disasters. These two programs are great choices for Vincent's olympic year, and that's key for him. He's stated multiple times that it's important to him to connect emotionally and skate the music.
 
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